how long before debt can be sent to collections?

[ezerics]

How long is it before a debt can be sent to a collections agency?
I have a problem with Verizon Fios (landline, internet, cable) in NYS. I paid my final bill due 1/4/12 and then cancelled my service when we moved out of our apartment. After that, I checked my online account to see if I received any further bills. I was able to login my account, but Verizon apparently disabled the online billing so that I could not view my bills. I also never received a bill forwarded in the mail, so I figured my account was canceled and there was no further charge.

Yesterday, I received in the mail a letter from the collections agency dated 2/10/12 seeking $192. I called verizon. Verizon claimed that I owed this amount. After arguing with the agent, she finally explained that after my last payment on January 4, they issued another bill for the next month for another $192, claiming they bill a month in advance, this bill which I never received through the mail or my online account, was apparently due 2/13/12. I explained I had canceled my service but she said that they never received this payment and forwarded it to collections. I asked how they could have sent this to collections because it was not 30 days past due. The agent tried to double talk me and claimed that the rule is 30 days but that they were able to send it to collections because it ran from the beginning of the service period commencing in January, however even judging from that earlier point it is not even 30 days. Finally, the agent claimed that they adjusted my account after it was canceled and now I owe tehm $30 dollars, not $192, but that I need to call back to speak with a supervisor at Verizon and then work it out with the collections agency.

Now I am concerned that this account, even though not a credit account, will be listed on my credit report since it was sent to collections. Is there any rule that the account cannot be sent to collections unless it is 30 days past due? If the bill was due 2/13 and I received a letter from collections on 2/10, isn't this a violation of the FDCPA?

[birddog1962]

pay the $30. The same thing happened with me on comcast. They said I owed $350.00.
It took them 2 months, but in the end it was $50.00. Do not send them anything till you get a final bill! Better yet, call them!

[retmar]

You must be notified in writing that a negative item is being reported on your CR's. They will usually say that "negative information MAY be reported . . . . " If reported, and you were never notified, you can have it deleted, and sue, if they hesitate. If this happens, let us know and we will help you. The notification must be sent to you within 30 days before or after reporting.

A creditor may assign to collections at any time, though, the accepted norm is 180 days, with 90 days on others.

Though you will want to speak to a supervisor at Verizon, know now the reps will give you static. Plus, you will have to hang up and wait for one to call you back. Most do not care, period. Things to ask:

1. Why didn't I receive a closing bill? A COA was filed with the post office.
2. How did Verizon arrive at the amount they claim I owe?
3. At time I cancelled my service, why didn't the rep inform me that a closing bill would be sent out?
4. Why did the rep allow me to conclude my call for cancellation without telling me there may be or was additional charges due?
5. Anything else you can thnk of to prove they blew it, not you. In short, your goal is to get them to eat the $30. If not, pay them, assuring they know you are not happy with their unprofessional and incompetent service.

I was with them for over 7 years before walking away due to how they treat the consumer.

[TomnTex]

Side NOTE: Consumer Cellular is a no contract cell service with NO contract. They use AT&T cell towers, so you get good service. Only problem it may take awhile to get a customer service rep sometimes. I can live with that. So far, I like them. Look them up on the net. Sears will sell you their phones, or they ship and you can then activate. Best so far that I have dealt with.

[Torden]

Originally Posted by ezerics

How long is it before a debt can be sent to a collections agency?
I have a problem with Verizon Fios (landline, internet, cable) in NYS. I paid my final bill due 1/4/12 and then cancelled my service when we moved out of our apartment. After that, I checked my online account to see if I received any further bills. I was able to login my account, but Verizon apparently disabled the online billing so that I could not view my bills. I also never received a bill forwarded in the mail, so I figured my account was canceled and there was no further charge.

Yesterday, I received in the mail a letter from the collections agency dated 2/10/12 seeking $192. I called verizon. Verizon claimed that I owed this amount. After arguing with the agent, she finally explained that after my last payment on January 4, they issued another bill for the next month for another $192, claiming they bill a month in advance, this bill which I never received through the mail or my online account, was apparently due 2/13/12. I explained I had canceled my service but she said that they never received this payment and forwarded it to collections. I asked how they could have sent this to collections because it was not 30 days past due. The agent tried to double talk me and claimed that the rule is 30 days but that they were able to send it to collections because it ran from the beginning of the service period commencing in January, however even judging from that earlier point it is not even 30 days. Finally, the agent claimed that they adjusted my account after it was canceled and now I owe tehm $30 dollars, not $192, but that I need to call back to speak with a supervisor at Verizon and then work it out with the collections agency.

Now I am concerned that this account, even though not a credit account, will be listed on my credit report since it was sent to collections. Is there any rule that the account cannot be sent to collections unless it is 30 days past due? If the bill was due 2/13 and I received a letter from collections on 2/10, isn't this a violation of the FDCPA?

If this happened to me, I'd look at it as a fresh new opportunity to sue someone, legitimately. Unfortunately for you, there are many steps to go through in this process to be sure you give them appropriate opportunity to avoid this going to court, so that if it does end up there, you can take maximum advantage (e.g. maximum FDCPA and FCRA penalties, get legal costs covered, etc).

One thing to do is to ask them for what THEY say is the time frame for that bill they sent. That and confirm the closing date and how it relates to the bill.

[Torden]

Originally Posted by birddog1962

pay the $30. The same thing happened with me on comcast. They said I owed $350.00.
It took them 2 months, but in the end it was $50.00. Do not send them anything till you get a final bill! Better yet, call them!

I don't think you or anyone should ever pay any amount you don't actually owe. That just encourages them to keep doing wrong things.

[birddog1962]

When did you actually cancel you service. They are probably billing you for 5 days or
something like that.

[ezerics]

I think you're right, the charge is for 5 days of service probably. I wasn't looking to dispute the amount at first (even though now I don't want to give them a dime), its just that I never received a forwarded paper bill, and they locked me out of my online bill pay so I could not even see if I had a balance due. I don't really mind paying the money. I'm just uncertain, again, because this is Verizon FIOS cable, phone, internet (almost like a utility), not a credit card, so I'm not sure what rules govern them. I don't want it reported on my credit report that I was sent to collections and I certainly don't want to pay 192 or even just $30 and have it reported on my credit that I settled with a collections company.

The verizon rep would not let me speak to a supervisor and scheduled a call back, but she admitted their general rule is to not send to collections until after 30 days. Apparently this unreceived 'final' bill was for the period January 13- Feb. 13. Then the agent tried saying the 30 days ran from the beginning of the service date and she tried to claim that was from January so now its February so its past 30 days. Then I pressed her on it and even she admitted that if the "service" date was Jan 13 and I received a letter from collections on Feb 10, that was less than 30 days.

Is this 30 day rule codified in law somewhere? Even if they violated their own 30 day policy, what can I do? If I have to pay 30 bucks and change, so be it, but how do I make sure this is not on my credit report, and if so, get it off.

Also, the rep told me that when I should speak with a Verizon supervisor, that I should have them basically adjust the amount with the Collections firm from 192 down to ~$30, and that they would "reage" the account. I'm not sure what that even means and again, I don't want it noted on my credit that I "settled" with a collections agency when I shouldn't have even been reported to one in the first place.

A few people mentioned suing- Verizon or the collections agency? and what would I sue them for? I'm not even sure if this 30 day rule is a law or just a policy of Verizon's.

Thanks a lot guys.

[ezerics]

wow. what a lousy company.

I called and spoke to a supervisor in their payment center that deals with collections.

What happened was they generated a bill for the next month on January 10, 2012 of $192. They are trying to claim it is a final bill and was due immediately because I canceled my service on the 10th. When I canceled via phone, their rep never informed me of a final balance, that I'd be receiving a final bill, or that they have a specialized webpage just for paying final bills because once you cancel, they disable your online bill pay and account access.

However, on February 13, they generated a revised bill of $30 (obviously a partial month).

Verizon admits this was sent to collections on February 7th, meaning that no matter how you count it, it was sent less than 30 days. They have no explanation as to why it was sent in less than 30 days and are doing an internal investigation and are supposed to follow up with me.

Verizon and the collections agency claim this has not been reported on my credit report.

I don't care about $30 dollars. I would like to know if the 30 days is a law or just a Verizon policy. Do I really have a claim here? Can I sue them for sending me into collections less than 30 days after being billed, let alone when the bill was supposedly due?

[retmar]

You don't have a violation, YET. There is no statute written that sets a definite time for charging off and assigning to a third party collector, or, selling to a JDB. As I said before, the accepted norm is 180 days, while some use 90 days. It all depends on company policy as to how long they want to carry an amount on the books.

Regarding my YET, you will have to wait until it is resolved to see how it is closed out. If they find and properly explain it was a simple error, you have no recourse. Understand that all who deal with the consumer using accounts, only have to show it was a simple error and they had fixed it to where it would not happen again. Too many times consumers have filed on simple errors only to have their claim dismissed. We all agree this is not fair, but, their accepted reasoning is they have so many accounts, it is hard, with employee turnover, etc., they can't catch every mistake that arises. This applies to CA/JDB/ATTY's also. You would have to find an absolute breach of the agreement, or, an illegal action of their assignee. Here, you would have to be sure if your state holds the OC liable for the acitons of their assignee. Some states do, some don't.

Verizon does report, and will include the notice in most bills. What you will watch for now is the CRA's to see if this is reported, now or later. You will want to look for it being reported with a "paid" remark. This you will fight as it is obvious it was their error, not yours, thus, not a collection. If the collector reports without written notification, you have a claim. To include, most do not report items under $50, but, still check for a few months, to be sure. If you find any reporting after resolved, let us know and we can guide you through the next step to get it deleted.

Lastly, from now on, write down each call made, using date, time, name of rep/super, and main points of conversation. Keep all paperwork in one area for quick reference.

[Coltfan1972]

Originally Posted by Torden

If this happened to me, I'd look at it as a fresh new opportunity to sue someone, legitimately.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Always looking at the glass half full !!

Anytime somebody in power or with power starts asserting that power, look out. Generally speaking it goes to their head, especially those with just a little bit of power or those beat up all the time and now have a very small amount of perceived power (JDB'S).

That is when you can quickly turn the tables and watch the one who was, or thought they were holding the cards, get their check book out and make good on that check their mouth just wrote.

[Coltfan1972]

They can turn you over to collections or for that matter sue you the minute your bill becomes past due, just like a cop can write you a ticket for going 1 MPH over the speed limit.

The courts would not be very happy and pretty much all credibility would be lost, but it would be legal.

[ezerics]

I have since followed up with verizon and spoke with a supervisor in their credit department and they claimed to do an investigation and then got back to me awhile later...

They admitted an error was made, but they had no real explanation. They issued a bill even after I had canceled my service, then they adjusted my bill down once they realized I had canceled my service. They sent the original bill in the amount of a full month of service to a collections agency. I eventually learned the correct pro rated amount due from dealing with the verizon credit center supervisor and paid it directly to verizon just so they couldn't hold anything against me.

Just to be clever, I immediately turned around to the collection agency, without telling them I had uncovered Verizon's error or paid off verizon. I sent them a dispute letter asking them to validate the debt (knowing that they cannot). 30 days have elapsed and I received no response or validation from them.

My question is:
1) is there a deadline set by law in which they have to respond either validating or admitting they cannot validate and there is no true debt? (more than 30 days later seems excessive, like they should have responded by now).

2) If I follow up with them and somehow get them to admit there was no valid debt, can I sue them for attempting to collect and sending me a collections letter notice and having to deal with them on the phone trying to sort out this mess?

3) if they don't respond to my validation request, is this a grounds to sue them?

Basically, from this forum and related websites, I've read that there are $1,000 fines to collections agencies for these technical violations, I'm just wondering if its worth a shot and I could make some money off their screw up.

[retmar]

1.There is no defined time period. The only requirement upon receipt of a dispute is for them to cease all activity until such time as claim is validated. Yes, some have been sued anyway. Here, you would claim FDCPA 809(c), which would cause them to have to prove claim before they can proceed.

2. No, you cannot sue for that reason, primarily due to your already settling it with verizon. It could be considered fraud on your part for even attempting it. Beyond that reason, you would not be able to sue them as they must rely on their client, Verizon, for all related information. As to Verizon, you would have to prove they deliberately did not send information to their client. Since most of these transactions are done by internet, and that all creditors/collectors. most often have safeguards in place for this reason, you would not stand a chance. In short, no matter your claim, it is lost before you begin, in most cases.

3. No, refer to #1.

The statutes written to protect you, also protect them. Before anyone considers suing a CA/JDB/ATTY, they must be able to prove beyond a preponderance of the evidence that the CA/JDB/ATTY violated the particular statute claimed. Remember, all they have to do is, if they did in fact violate, tell or show the court that the problem is fixed and all procedures to assure this does not happen again is iin effect. OR, they had procedures in effect, but, something happened. It falls under the automatic presumption that since the act is in their normal business activity, you lose. For example, you claim you never received a letter from them. All they have to do is tell the court they did, and you lose. Why is that in the normal operation of their business, they use the U. S. Mail. Do consumers win on occasion, absolutely, but, the violations are so apparent, there is no excuse. By this, knowing in their own files that the claim is timebarred, yet threaten to sue, they lose.

Hope this clears it for you.