OC won't validate accnt history

[wobbles]

I'm dealing with an OC (posted on old board, can't find again), American General. They responded to my DV with their own CMRR ltr, stating I need to prove to THEM that payments were not properly applied. Because I used the DV ltr (modified) quoting the FCRA, they are stating they are the OC, and not bound to those rules, that they don't have to validate anything to me. I just want an accounting of payments applied & why I still owe $1900, when I've paid 30 pmts of $100 on a debt of $2300, since start of accnt. I know of at least 3 pmts never applied, have copies of checks from my credit union, have sent them numerous times. How do I proceed, do I send copies again, or do I just insist they provide account history. I'm willing to re-start payments if they will just be up-front about where the payments are being applied & how. I don't like to throw away $$$ & just want what I think is fair. They gave me 5 days to respond & said they would start legal proceedsing after that. Well, 5 days was up before I even got the letter!

Since they are the OC & not a CA, how should I proceed?

[DocDon]

That's a great way to conduct business. Who from General sent you the letter stating they wouldn't send you your account history?

Do not stop making payments on this account. It will only screw up your credit history. Once you obtain an account history, any errors can be reversed and corrected. If you stop payments, you're creating a lot more problems for yourself, especially if they bring a judgment against you.

I would arrange to continue payments with them and then immediately file a complaint with your state Attorney General who will contact them and force them to give an answer as to why they are witholding your account history from you (don't tell General you are doing this). Turn over copies of all supporting info you have. I would then file a similar complaint with the FTC. This way, you get the upper hand back.

[Guest]

OC validations should refer to the FCRA and the FCBA.

Asshat OC

July 17, 2003

Certified Mail Receipt:

Subject: Request for Account Validation

Re: Account Number:

To Whom It May Concern:

Upon recently reviewing my credit file I have found an account listed by your company. I respectfully request that your office provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Under the Truth in Lending Act under the Fair Credit Billing Act section 161 clearly states that "(1) A refection on a statement of extension of credit which was not made to the obligor or, if made, was not in the amount reflected on such statements". I have no recollection of ever having an extension of credit with your company. Section (ii) states that you must give me a written explanation as to why I am indebted to your company and statements that prove such a fact. I also request under this section the agreement that I made at the time of transaction.

Further more under section 623 of the Fair Credit Reporting Act you must supply correct information to my credit file. It also states under this Act that the items you are reporting are incorrect and must be corrected. I again under this act ask for the documents that support your claim. Please supply the original contract for me to compare signatures as well as all statements.

If your offices fail to respond, with proper validation, within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit files and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, within 30 days, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and I will consider this matter permanently closed.

I would also like to request, in writing that your offices make no telephone contact, to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.

Best Regards,

[wobbles]

Well, I did stop paying on the account - in April, when they failed to credit payments for Feb & March. We have been battling ever since. Should I call or write & offer to begin payments again, THEN proceed with Atty Gen route? Reason I stopped paying was they returned my April pmt, asking for Feb & Mar with it as well, said they could not accept partial. Well, it WASN'T partial. I've faxed & send via CMRR copies of those payments. I also feel they have a few more mistakes there as well - can't prove it without a history on on the account.

And in my letter, I referred to the FCRA.

[ADSOFT]

I read you situation and it caught my interest.

I need to know if this is an INSTALLMENT LOAN, or an open end contract: ie, credit card?

If it is INSTALLMENT, I believe it should be regulated by TILA

If it is OPEN ENDED it should be FCBA.

Do you have a copy of all the payments you have made. If you do depending on the type of LOAN and AGREEMENT, you might be able to send a letter asking for the original agreement. But, don't quote FDCPA that is for bill collectors, yet even OC have to disclose the terms of the contract: TILA: payments and interest and term.

FCBA: interest and terms and you have 60 days to dispute, I use this all the time against SPRINT because they can't get there billing straight, it takes them 2 -3 bills to get it right, and I told them I'm not paying them a dime or any late fees until they have everything on paper otherwise I will see them in FEDRAL COURTS, I have 5 consecutive bills that show their billing processes is messed up!!! ... I have not paid a late fee in 5 months and I always get a 30 - 60 day extension, and they can't charge me late fees if I disputed the bill withing 60 days. I told them I will more than happy to pay, but I'm only paying what is on the bill and it has to be CORRECT.

Sounds to me like you have not done anything wrong, you disputed the bill and they have to show you how the amount is being applied. If it is an installment loan and they are charging interest they were supposed give you terms when they first entered a contract with you.

So, first you have to know if it was an installment agreement or a open-ended. I think you have them covered on both ends. .... The only error you made was quoting FDCPA instead of TILA or FCBA.

.... this is not legal advice just my opinion, of course the law is very complex and every situation is different.

Anyway, I hope that helps. I understand your frustration, you are making payment and they always come up with some $^%#%^^!. I had the same problem with SPRINT until I got FCBA savvy. Now, I know exactly where my payments are going, and I have a 5 month history that their billing is messed up. If they want to go to court, I'm I can prove them wrong in a second. I would make sure that you can provide a payment history and A BILLING history, then you have all the cards. Make sure that you have in writing that you did not pay because they could not provide a contract and or asked for terms.

Oh and ask SIS, she might have a letter for OC, I think she does.

[DocDon]

Well, I did stop paying on the account - in April, when they failed to credit payments for Feb & March. We have been battling ever since. Should I call or write & offer to begin payments again, THEN proceed with Atty Gen route? Reason I stopped paying was they returned my April pmt, asking for Feb & Mar with it as well, said they could not accept partial. Well, it WASN'T partial. I've faxed & send via CMRR copies of those payments. I also feel they have a few more mistakes there as well - can't prove it without a history on on the account.

And in my letter, I referred to the FCRA.

This comes from experience. I stopped payment on my Providian card out of principle (witheld payments, unauthorized charges, etc), and it came back and bit me in the a**. I've found if you lose the upper hand and let them put you in collections, charge off the account, get a judgment against you, you've brought more grief on yourself than necessary, and now have a REAL mess to try to fix.

I would pay them whatever they want for now (consider it a short-term loan) and get the AG involved to get your payment history. It sounds like you have a lot of evidence to back up your story.

Armed with your account history, you can now go after your creditor. Now you have full control over them, to bring litigation, or demand a return of overpayment.

If you don't do it this way, you'll have to deal with a collection agency too since it's going on 90 days since last payment. Make sense?

[cha0sman]

Well, I did stop paying on the account - in April, when they failed to credit payments for Feb & March. We have been battling ever since. Should I call or write & offer to begin payments again, THEN proceed with Atty Gen route? Reason I stopped paying was they returned my April pmt, asking for Feb & Mar with it as well, said they could not accept partial. Well, it WASN'T partial. I've faxed & send via CMRR copies of those payments. I also feel they have a few more mistakes there as well - can't prove it without a history on on the account.

And in my letter, I referred to the FCRA.

dude dont stop payments on the accounts..it will just make your matter worse...you dont want a charge off...

[wobbles]

Loan type is a revolving accnt, but was set up like an installment loan (X# of pmts over X# of mos).

They have already charged the acct off (according to them & I checked credit report - they have). I know I probably messed up here, but was just trying to get them to stop taking my money & not applying pmts. Actually, they started the non-pmt issue when they sent my check back to me for April, requesting that I send 2 more pmts with it (pmts I had already made!).

I guess I need to figure out where to go from here, sound like pay what they want (over $800 to bring accnt current, they are saying), and they want $1800 NOW, which I don't have. I can resume pmts, but they won't accept that. Just don't know what to do next.

Also, I quoted the FCRA, not the FDCPA, but now know I should have quoted the FBCA. My thoughts now is to respond to their letter (CMRR) with another plea for an accnt history and an offer to resume payments, at a slightly higher rate (say $125/mo) to start negotiations with good faith. How does that sound to the experts here?

[DocDon]

You can try to take this issue to their corporate offices, and try your luck there. You probably won't get a warm reception from their 1-800 reps who take what comes up on their screen like the gospel.

Or, you can put copies of all your evidence into an envelope and mail it off to your Attorney General who will contact them on your behalf.

From your description, it sounds like they will not even investigate your claims. They will, however, move forward with collection activity if you don't address this now.

In my opinion, I would submit your evidence and grievance to your AG. When they receive a letter with an official seal on it, they'll be more apt to address your issues. If the situation were different, and you weren’t facing this account going into collections (usually after 91 days late), I would say you have different options. The truth is, you don’t have time to screw around with them. If this account goes to collections, you now have 2 issues to resolve instead of one. I would be very aggressive if I were in your position.

[ADSOFT]

Loan type is a revolving accnt, but was set up like an installment loan (X# of pmts over X# of mos).

It sounds like an Installment account!!

If it was X PAYMENTS over X months it like a car loan. So they should have told you what the APR was and supplied you with a contract when you first signed the contract.

Sounds like you have proof they didn't credit your MARCH statement, and that is why you stopped paying. Do you remember the type of contract you signed??????

You might have them on breach of contract if they didn't apply you payment. Aren't they sending you monthly statements. ???/

[DocDon]

Loan type is a revolving accnt, but was set up like an installment loan (X# of pmts over X# of mos).

It sounds like an Installment account!!

If it was X PAYMENTS over X months it like a car loan. So they should have told you what the APR was and supplied you with a contract when you first signed the contract.

Sounds like you have proof they didn't credit your MARCH statement, and that is why you stopped paying. Do you remember the type of contract you signed??????

You might have them on breach of contract if they didn't apply you payment. Aren't they sending you monthly statements. ???/

You're probably right AD, but if they're not even willing to cooperate to resolve the issue, where does that leave wobbles? A letter from the AG will get the payment history, and won't cost wobbles a dime in court costs to get it. Once armed with that info, wobbles can then pursue litigation if it comes down to it.

[ADSOFT]

I totally agree, as long as he has his payments and they don't want to provide proof then ATT GEN is the way to go. He might also want to keep BREACH OF CONTRACT handy in his back pocket as to who broke the contract/agreement first. By them not crediting his account, they broke their promise first.

With the information given that's how I would argue it. .... Hey if they did break their promise first then what is his recourse???? He can sue, but what will be the damages, CREDIT WORTHINESS. ....I think a consumer at this point would have to apply for credit and get denied based on neg info provided by these guys, then he can claim damages, ???????

[DocDon]

There's probably something in TIL that applies to this, without having to be denied credit.

From what wobbles said, it sounds like a rep with a bad attitude. If anything, this person will be looking for a new job when all this is said and done.

[wobbles]

Thanks guys, I'll submit my info to the AG. In the meantime, how should I handle American General - they are out for blood, and they are the one's who screwed up.