ASSINGABLE CONTRACTS/BILLS/DEBTS: Proper wording????

[ADSOFT]

I posted this in general tips area and I got no response, so I'm reposting here. I feel this is very important since under FDCPA if a bill is not assignable a CA cannot collect on it, therefore it would be strong evidence to have it removed from your CR.

...... .... Repost,

...On the top debt validation board I read that is says unless your bill/contract specifically says that a bill/contract can be assigned you can request that the CA remove the bill from your CR. ... because you have no obligation with the CA!!!(..just want to mention that for the new members)

I'm reposting this to get comments from anybody. It seems that if a debt does not say "ASSIGNABLE" or something to that extend it can never be sent to a CA.

So It might help everyone if we get acquanted with the wording necessary to determine if a debt is ASSIGNABLE to a CA.

.... I have been looking at some of my UTILITY BILLS and cell phone bills, All I can see is "We may also take other action to collect unpaid bills". Is that enough to ASSIGN a bill???? Nothing on the GAS bill.

I'm asking for input from ANYONE!!!! What do your utility, cell phone, telephone bills say regarding assigning debts????

[Pale Rider]

I didn't find anything on my utility bills, but I found notice on new credit card I received today. Being an informed consumer, I actually read the agreement.

Assignment. You agree that we may at any time assign your Account, this Agreement, and our rights under this Agreement to another person without your consent or notice to you. The person to whom we assign your Account and this Agreement shall be entitled to all of our rights under this Agreement.

[ADSOFT]

Pale Rider

Thanks for responding!

Do you think "we have the right to take other action to collect ..." is enough for them to assign a contract?????

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if we did a "FDCPA ASSIGNMENT VIOLATIONS" on google?????

TIA

[ADSOFT]

I didn't find anything on my utility bills, but I found notice on new credit card I received today. Being an informed consumer, I actually read the agreement.

Assignment. You agree that we may at any time assign your Account, this Agreement, and our rights under this Agreement to another person without your consent or notice to you. The person to whom we assign your Account and this Agreement shall be entitled to all of our rights under this Agreement.

Hey Pale Rider

Do you think if a consumer contract DOES NOT have the above disclaimer or something simular to it which allows the CREDITOR to assign rights to another party, that the debt CANNOT be transferred to a collection agency for LEGAL collection without the debt being sold. In other words unless the contract is assignable then if you don't pay the CA they have to remove the TL from your credit report and send it back to the ORIGNAL CREDITOR and you have to settle with him????

[swferguson]

What if you write a check and there is no contract that you need to sign. How do you know if that company can assign the debt? Whereas most stores do post that a $25 or $30 check fee will be added to any bounced checks, they do not have any other type of legal print in the stores. So how would anyone know if a bounced check is assignable to a state collection agency?

Also, does anyone know if state collection agencies are bound by the FDCPA? And if you ask them to validate a debt, should you also ask them for proof that it is assignable?

[ADSOFT]

Also, does anyone know if state collection agencies are bound by the FDCPA? And if you ask them to validate a debt, should you also ask them for proof that it is assignable?

What do you mean by state collection agencies???? If you are a collection agency( You main purpose in life is to collect defaulted debts: read the FDCPA) your are bound to the rules and regulations of the FDCPA.

Yes, in you DV letter you SHOULD ask the the debt be assingable see the sample letter on the main board.

[ADSOFT]

Here is a sample letter.

In this letter they are asking for rights to collect the debt. Also according to my law book( I'm going to bounce this off CALAWYER AND TEXASLAWYER) if a creditor ASSIGNS a debt to a third party it must give up all rights to the debt. I doubt that OC'S will give up rights to the debt unless they sell it, and even if they do they must have an assignability clause on the contract. So who ever first created this letter was astute enough to know that for the collection agency to have a right to DEMAND payment they must OWN the debt and right to it 100%.

I think that's what they mean by the "ASSIGNMENT AGREEMENT" term in this letter.

I guess that's why the above Debt Validation post above states that after not recieving a validation of the debt in 30 days just send your GREEN CARDS to the CRA. In other words the CA has no right to the debt.

... I know what you are thinking!!!!

Quest:So why in it the first place are they sending me a bill (the CA, that is) and are they putting it on my credit report????

Answer: My guess is that they hope you send them some money. Once you send them some money you have entered a CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION, and now you are commited to the CA and to the 7 yr. reporting window(depending on when you stopped paying). Its called novation.

Anyhow here is the letter:

Your Name

123 Your Street Address

Your City, ST 01234

ABC Collections

123 NotOnYourLife Ave

Chicago, IL

Date:

Re: Acct # XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

To Whom It May Concern:

Under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), I have the right to request validation of the debt you say I owe you. I am requesting proof that I am indeed the party you are asking to pay this debt, and there is some contractual obligation which is binding on me to pay this debt. Below are a few questions to answer which may help you to resolve these mistakes.

You should also be aware that reporting such invalidated information to major credit bureaus might constitute defamation of character, as the negative marks on my credit report harm my credit and prevent me from enjoying all the benefits of good credit. I'm sure your legal staff will agree that non-compliance with this request could put your company in serious legal trouble with the FTC and other state or federal agencies.

In addition to the questionnaire below, please attach copies of:

Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt

Agreement that bears the signature of the alleged debtor wherein he agreed to pay the creditor.

Any insurance claims been made by any creditor regarding this account

Any judgments been obtained by any creditor regarding this account

Best regards,

Your Signature( according to some VETERANS, you don't have to sign)

Your Name

Debt Validation Form

Questionnaire to be returned to me for Account #<insert account number here>

Original Creditor's Name: ____________________________

Name of Debtor: ______________________________________

Address of Debtor: ___________________________________

Balance of Account: __________________________________

Date you acquired this debt: _________________________

This Debt was: assigned __________ purchased__________

[ADSOFT]

Here is some more information that I got from another site.

With regards to assignments: "Case law tells us that even though a creditor can legally assign an account to a collector, it is not enforceable unless the debtor agrees to the assignment. The collector has no standing to collect without your consent. The agreement can be established by making a payment to the collector. This is called "consideration."

In order for you to be obligated to any assignee, you must have derived some benefit from the assignee, or paid a bill to them, or signed a new written agreement (a novation). You must agree to the assignment or it is not enforceable.

The affirmative defenses include "accord and satisfaction," "statute of frauds (no contract in writing)," and "failure of consideration," for most of these types of cases. These defenses are to be used when the "debtor" is sued by one of the assignees (it doesn't matter if the original creditor ends up as one of the assignees).

The first is "failure of consideration" which means, there is no evidence that an agreement was made, no payment, no exchange of any benefit or detriment to any party. The second is "statute of frauds" which means there is no contract in writing between the parties. Because the original creditor never actually named the new collector as an assignee in the credit agreement, the assignee can never be a party to that agreement unless permitted by both the debtor and creditor.

The third used is "accord and satisfaction" which means the debt has been satisfied in full. The analogy is if you owed your neighbor $100 and a friend paid the debt for you and your neighbor accepted $75 in satisfaction of the debt, neither your friend nor your neighbor can sue you for the $25 because they accepted another amount in lieu of the original debt. It can also be called a "novation." This also happens because of an assignment. If a debt is assigned to a third party collector, it is no longer legally enforceable because the creditor has waived his standing or rights to collect. The same applies to the third party collector. No one can put himself in harms way (incur a debt knowingly and voluntarily) and then expect to be awarded damages for his losses.

In any case, these defenses don't need to be spelled out when addressing a collector (not the creditor) with a request for validation. The statute takes care of all that for you. Keep it simple. Most of these cases are won, in my opinion, because of the collector's poor record keeping and the incompetence of collector employees. I always recommend that you don't discuss a collection with anyone over the phone, but request that all correspondence about the dispute be done in writing. Always get the name, phone number and company name from the caller and tell them not to call you anymore. If they do,they can be fined by the FTC.

The credit history is another project. You can legally force the collectors and bureaus to remove those items, for the same reasons an assignee collector cannot enforce any collection. You may not be able to do the same with the orginal creditors unless you can prove they repudiated the debts or that there was some accord and satisfaction in the form of an insurance claim or write-off, as a consequence of the assignment."

[ADSOFT]

So if the above is true, which I think it is, then the CA is mesrepresenting the ENFORCABLILITY of the DEBT and must drop it!!!

Of course this is just my opinion and not legal advice.

[grantjeffries]

Did you get any info back on this from CALawyer or TexasLawyer yet? Do they concur?

[nolo]

".... I have been looking at some of my UTILITY BILLS and cell phone bills, All I can see is "We may also take other action to collect unpaid bills". Is that enough to ASSIGN a bill???? Nothing on the GAS bill. "

I hope someone can answer this question.

[ADSOFT]

".... I have been looking at some of my UTILITY BILLS and cell phone bills, All I can see is "We may also take other action to collect unpaid bills". Is that enough to ASSIGN a bill???? Nothing on the GAS bill. "

I hope someone can answer this question.

My bills say the same thing I don't think it is.

After further reviewing the assingment procedure. For a consuemer to be obligated to a CA , the CA has to own the bill and the OC has give up all rights.

I'll post a thread on the following post. It should give you some more info.

[ADSOFT]

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6447

The posts at the end have the ASSIGNMENT information that you are looking for.

Of course you should read the whole thread so you can see how the CA first responded when it thought that the consumer would never know that the CA has no legal right to collect

[nolo]

Thanks ADSOFT, this is very interesting information indeed.

[ADSOFT]

Thanks ADSOFT, this is very interesting information indeed.

Thanks,

Let us know if that works out for you, We are still trying to cook up a letter which DEMANDS that the COLLECTION agency remove your TL because they have no right to collect.

If you come up something let me know, You can PM me.

I watch the history channell all the time. This reminds me of WWII. We are the allies and we have to come up with a new technology before the AXIS powers block us. .....

Anyhow, I have been trying to land on al letter for a week, If I can find one I might have to dream one up myself.

Anyhow, get to us let us know if that works.