Watsonsbag Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Don't know if you recall my post about 2nd mortgage holder Aurora sending bills during the BK without asking for lift of automatic stay. They always had a disclaimer on the bottom that it was not an attempt to collect a debt, not a violation of stay etc. etc. Sure looked like a bill to me.We consulted with our lawyer and he said because of the disclaimer it would be hard to prove they violated the stay! So in other words, they can get away with this type of BS! We are furious Why is it that we have to watch our every step and these big shot lenders can do just about anything they want? I contend this is contempt of court but lawyer says differently. He sent them a courtesy letter telling them not to send any more bills to us. Big deal.So that's the result of my beef. Pretty well roasted, I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadynRed Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 If it looks like a bill, and smells like a BILL, then why ISN'T a BILL ????Did they show an 'amount due' or 'past due' on these things ??? Was there a 'due date' ? If so, that's a fairly clear collection effort in my view, sounds like.. gasp !.. A BILL!!I would ask your lawyer about OVERSHADOWING. Despite the goofy disclaimer, if any normal consumer could construe those things as an actual bill and demand for payment, then the BILL overshadows the 'disclaimer', it becomes an illegal collection effort and you can STILL go after them. Perhaps your lawyer just doesn't want to get involved to that extent ?? Personally, I think you have a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watsonsbag Posted August 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Yes, it contained all those things--amount due, interest, late fees, due date and then that famous disclaimer at the bottom. SOOOO....don't get relief from automatic stay and all you have to do to avoid trouble is write a "well, this might look like a bill but it isn't" disclaimer and you'll be OK!BS. I think we need to see another lawyer. I think the problem is there's not enough money in this for a lawyer to want to put any effort into it. I'd give anything to be able to walk into the courtroom, put this on the judge's desk and ask "doesn't this look like a bill to you?" Crooks, every last one of them. Thank you, you are always most helpful. It is most appreciated especially when most other people don't even seem to care, unless the problem becomes theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadynRed Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 I would definitely find a lawyer with some spine. Vioating the automatic stay can lead to some hefty fines and I believe you can also go for damages as well.If you want, I'll look up the case law that I have on 'overshadowing'.I wouldnt' let them off the hook with the slap on the wrists like that letter the lawyer sent ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghacorp Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 I think I would cut the lawyer some slack on this matter. There are more productive uses of his/her time than to worry about a secured creditor with a disclaimer in reality, just sending a printed reminder that says hey we know you are in bankruptcy, we're still here and we don't expect you to pay until resolved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watsonsbag Posted August 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 I understand what you are saying but it is also a fact that many lawyers, when they don't see big bucks, simply don't want to bother. Not about this lender per se, but he even admitted that lawyers don't like "small" cases. But what is small to them means a lot to us. And after having been victimized by too many corporate crooks if there's a violation I at least want them to know that I know about it. Besides this, we have the other lender violating the BK discharge by suddenly adding delinquencies to the credit reports. Even this lawyer admits that a BIG no-no but he doesn't handle these things and doesn't know anyone who does. We can at least let these lenders know that consumers are becoming a bit more credit-savvy. Not that it will do any good probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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