ADSOFT

GOT Cap1 Card, FICO WENT DOWN,CONFUSED!!!, Cap1 .. doesn't R

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Thanks Mr. CookieMonster the board was getting boring with out you. ... I think I'm going to have a STARBUCK's OATMEAL COOKIE after this.

But, I'm still confused. See I bought the Transunion credit monitoring service. And my TU said I need a credit card, I ran their FICO simulator it said if I got a $300 card my score would go up. I was shocked when my score went down today.

.... what's up with that?????????????????/

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<blockquote>Originally posted by ADSOFT

Hey Doc I love you but,what are you talking about. My score went down, how much more negitive can it be than that!!!

I figure that the FICO calculation program has to know what the

credit limit has to be to compute whether you are below the %30.

?????

</blockquote>

You're right, it is negative, but only a small drop. Don't use the card for 2 months and see what the increase in your score will be. I've never had the balance reporting be an issue with Cap 1 and obtaining new credit, but aparently they lied to me on this.

It's not my fault. Please forgive me. :)

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<blockquote>Originally posted by ADSOFT

Thanks Mr. CookieMonster the board was getting boring with out you. ... I think I'm going to have a STARBUCK's OATMEAL COOKIE after this.

But, I'm still confused. See I bought the Transunion credit monitoring service. And my TU said I need a credit card, I ran their FICO simulator it said if I got a $300 card my score would go up. I was shocked when my score went down today.

.... what's up with that?????????????????/

</blockquote>

Well, thanks ADSOFT ..... but ummm, I'm not a Mr. ;)

The FICO simulators are ways to "estimate", they're not always 100% accurate. And, in time, your score will go up. It's just not instantaneous, unfortunately. Also, the simulators guesstimate what will happen when one of your factors change - such as the addition of a $300 revolving card. But the simulator doesn't take into account the other factor that's inherent with getting that card - and that's the decline of your average age of accounts. Like I said, in a few months, you'll recover the points you lost, and, assuming you pay on time and don't carry a high utilization, probably more.

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Here's some older threads on this topic

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/cgi-local/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=1&thread=4000

The bottom line is that CAP 1 does NOT report your credit limit and the bureaus are continuing to allow Cap 1 to exclude it even though they are WELL AWARE that it's hurting consumer's scores. Like Cookie said, wwen the limit is missing, the score looks at the "high credit" instead. EQ has even done a study on the topic which you can read here (click the link for the entire study)

Here's an EQ research study on the topic.

EQUIFAX Position Paper- The Importance of Reporting High Balance and Credit Limit Information

In November 1998, a large national bankcard issuer informed Equifax that it would stop reporting credit limit and high balance information. In addition, within the six months, a few bankcard issuers have implemented or announced their intent to implement a policy of non-reporting of credit limit and high balance information. Recognizing the effect that such a policy, if adopted by other creditors, would have on credit products, Equifax began an intensive study to determine the scope and impact of this trend.

While the non-reporting of credit limit and high balance is intended to prevent competitors from using this data in marketing campaigns designed to target these lender’s best-performing customers, it presents a significant challenge to Equifax and companies that rely on credit scoring in their lending process. This information is used to by Equifax and other model developers to determine credit utilization, an attribute commonly used in credit scoring model development. Equifax anticipates if this trend in non-reporting of key credit data evolves, it will continue to have a noticeable impact on the performance of both custom and generic credit scoring tools.

The analysis presented in this position paper is the first phase in an ongoing study to determine the impact of non-reporting on scoring products. Future studies will examine the effect of varying levels of non-reporting on different types of models (targeting, recovery, fraud, etc). In addition, we will examine the impact on the scoring of credit files with varying numbers of tradelines and tradeline age.

Consistent with the Association of Credit Bureaus and other credit reporting organizations, Equifax encourages all lenders to continue reporting credit limit and high balance information. Given the clear impact on the performance of our models, Equifax recommends that lenders regularly validate both custom and generic credit scoring tools using their portfolio data to determine the actual impact of this non-reporting policy on their portfolio as well as to identify normal shifts in score performance.

Equifax Use of Credit Limit and High Balance in Model Development

Credit scoring is a widely used statistical method of predicting future credit performance of individual consumers based upon their historical credit performance. Since credit scoring models are built using a wide variety of credit file attributes like credit limit and high balance, credit scores are dependent on the data available to the model developer.

Credit limit and high balance information is used in the creation of “utilization” attributes, which are used extensively in the development of credit risk, targeting, recovery and fraud models. Equifax incorporates utilization data into approximately 15 to 20 percent of the attributes used in generic and custom model development, making it an important characteristic for behavior prediction.

Currently, Equifax models use credit limit when calculating utilization. When Equifax encounters a tradeline with a missing or non-reported credit limit and high balance value, the model replaces it with the current balance value in utilization calculations. If the current balance value is missing, then the model bypasses that trade in calculating utilization.

<blockquote>Originally posted by DocDon

Don't use the card for 2 months and see what the increase in your score will be. I've never had the balance reporting be an issue with Cap 1 and obtaining new credit, but aparently they lied to me on this.

</blockquote>

Although we focus mostly on the classic FICO's here, lenders have options of using other scoring models, one of which is Nextgen offered at the CRA's, developed by Fair Isaac. This scoring models lists account activity as a reason code so by not using your card, it may not be calculated when a lender purchases your report. Aside from that, I don't see a reason why one would obtain a credit card and never use it..... why not use it, keep a low balance or pay off the balance at the end of each billing cycle but definately use it.

Here's an overview of Fair Isaacs classic scoring models and their "new" NextGen model that does include account activity.

Fair, Isaac US Credit Bureau Risk Score Reason Codes

Here's some more information regarding the NextGen and the CRA's.

http://www.fairisaac.com/page.cfm/section=sub_sub/id=375/id4=375/id1=46/id2=157/id3=389/layout=layout1.cfm?CFID=979689&CFTOKEN=59117514

NEXTGEN FICO® SCORES

Offering unsurpassed broad-based risk assessment, NextGen scores provide financial institutions with a sharper picture of a consumer's likelihood to repay a loan as agreed.

• Experian/Fair Isaac Advanced Risk Score (Experian)

• Pinnaclesm (Equifax)

• PRECISIONsm (TransUnion)

http://168.230.129.57/servlet/SiteDriver/Content/1741

Take advantage of Fair, Isaac's most cutting-edge credit bureau risk scores — now at two leading credit reporting agencies. NextGen scores provide financial institutions with the most advanced credit bureau risk assessment on the market today. These "next generation" scores represent a major advancement over Fair, Isaac's Classic FICO scores, the industry-standard tool used for billions of credit decisions each year.

NextGen FICO scores will benefit both lenders and consumers. Lenders can use NextGen FICO scores to help them extend credit to new populations, make instant credit offers, reduce losses, and deliver more customized products and pricing.

Leveraging more than three years of dedicated research, the scores' boost in predictive strength is due to a new design blueprint. Still, NextGen scores are engineered with a "look and feel" nearly identical to our classic scores. So, there's almost no impact to operations when switching to the newer scores.

NextGen scores are generally available in the US at Equifax (called Pinnaclesm) and are available in pilot mode at Trans Union (called PRECISIONsm). Fair, Isaac classic risk scores will continue to be available at all three major credit reporting agencies.

Both NextGen and classic scores can also be obtained through Fair, Isaac's PreScore® Service for prescreening and prospect database updates, and through ScoreNet® Service for account management. These services allow lenders to focus on evaluating and enhancing their portfolios, rather than spending resources to obtain customer information.

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So, Basically your saying that CapOne will not report Credit Limits to guard their good customers, so other credit card companies will not offer them a better deal?

Well, if thats the case, aren't they obligated to report the high limit by law?

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<blockquote>Originally posted by ADSOFT

So, Basically your saying that CapOne will not report Credit Limits to guard their good customers, so other credit card companies will not offer them a better deal?

</blockquote>

Uhm yep, it appears that way eh ;)

<blockquote>Originally posted by ADSOFT

Well, if thats the case, aren't they obligated to report the high limit by law?

</blockquote>

They do, so your best recourse is to buy something, rack up the card and pay it off (or perhaps return the item) ;)

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I'm confused, according to SECTION 623 OF FDCA, read it on this board they have to correct errors.

.... Read for your self:

************************** 623 ******************

623. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies [15 U.S.C. § 1681s-2]

.....

Some text was ommitted by me.

.....

(2) Duty to correct and update information. A person who

(A) regularly and in the ordinary course of business furnishes information to one or more consumer reporting agencies about the person's transactions or experiences with any consumer; and

(B) has furnished to a consumer reporting agency information that the person determines is not complete or accurate,

shall promptly notify the consumer reporting agency of that determination and provide to the agency any corrections to that information, or any additional information, that is necessary to make the information provided by the person to the agency complete and accurate, and shall not thereafter furnish to the agency any of the information that remains not complete or accurate.

.... Doesn't this specifically state the ANY erros have to be corrected????

[Edit by ADSOFT on Sunday, May 4, 2003 @ 01:19 PM]

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This is a major can of warms you want to open. This may be right; but you are going to have to sue them on the matter to get compliance.

The best means is the FTC; if enough people complain - they may step in & hit Capital One on this matter (and set precedence for others to follow) strict guidelines on reporting.

But right now as it stands they are not being punished for doing this so they will continue no matter what consumers say.

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Well, it should be very straight forward to:

#1 do a verbal request to post the CREDIT LIMIT, and quote the

FDCRA just to let them know your serious and have recourse

#2. Send a letter, or fax if they don't fix it. I believe there

are some things they have to fix in 7-10 days, but I'n not

sure.

#3. Get a copy of credit report, and get a lawyer.

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More is better; do a search for people interested in class action suite against this company. That have already suffered adverse action because of Capital One practices. Then move from there.

I know this subject has come up before on other boards; you just have to find these others interested in putting a case together.

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I'm going to try to the steps I outline above and get back to everyone.

You know, CRAP-ONE wouldn't be too bad if we could solve this little problem, once we get them to play fair, we might make them our DEFACTO, get back into the credit scene card.

... like you said before, they have been there when no else was.

... I'll keep you guys posted.

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You might want to try sending a copy of your billing statement to the CRA's highlighting your credit limint and asking the CRA's to correct your CR accordingly. Worth a try?

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I'm eventually going to do that. When I first disputed with CRAP-ONE, told them that I was applying for a loan and that the only reason I got a card was to increase my FICO, that I was going to sue them because now I'm not even close to loan with the CRAP they just pulled.

They said that they would send me a letter stating my limit.

So worst case I'm going to have a letter to fight back with.

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I hope your strategy works. But if I can just suggest that fighting with Capitol One is futile (they're like the Borg, if you happen to know Star Trek: TNG :) ). My suggestion is based on my own experiences. It's much easier sending the CRA a copy of your billing statement than going to the mat with Capitol One. Fighting Cap might feel good as far as being able to vent, but if you really wanna get them, use the info they send you to upgrade your report. There's nothing Cap can do about that, and you can send it over and over again without being discounted as frivolous. Just trying keep you from re-inventing the wheel. Good Luck! :D :D :D

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Hey, those FICO's look strong.

... anyhow, I called them over at CRAP-ONE, and I got them to reduce my yearly fee by $29 bucks, I told them that the gave me $300 of cred then take $59.00 buck out, if I would have not been

a resoponsible person, I would of went over. The girl agreed and credited me $29 bucks.

... anyhow they have a business credit card that I got approved for and they break down the $59.00 to $5.00 per month, I asked if they would do that instead, so she credited me.

... I guess this BOARD gives you confidednce.

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I'm opening this post up again, I'm going to get to the bottom of this CAPITOL ONE not posting the credit limit issue.

I will be consolidating many threads onto this thread.

Today is Saterday, and I just got off the phone with CAPITOL ONE, I'm going up the corporate chain of command until I get to the person responsible for not reporting the credit limit.

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I'm reopening this thread today. I'm going to challenge CAPITOL-ONE on the High Credit Line Issue. My game plan to work my way up the management chain and .... well, you should never reveal your plan because you don't want somebody to intervene.

Anyhow, today is Saterday and I just spoke to one of the section managers at Capitol-One and they told me that their corporate office is close on Saterday's and somebody is going to call me and get back to me and explain why they don't post the high credit limit!!

If any of you members have issues with CAPITOL-ONE, now is your time to post on this thread!!!!

We are going to need before and after scenarios. If your FICO was dramatically affected by opening up a Capitol One Card, then we want to get some hard information. We need printouts of FICO's before and after.

Save you paper work, I'm not asking to see it, We just want proof to demonstrate the effects of what is going on.

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Just checked my Equifax Fico and It went down to 535 points, I am fffffffffffffffffffffffffff....ken pisssssssssssed.

I have all my credit reports.

I can't wait until Monday to give their manager a piece of my mind.

[Edit by ADSOFT on Saturday, May 10, 2003 @ 10:27 AM]

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I called a few days ago & got shut down immediately by a very rude lady when I asked about this problem. This just hung up and would not speak further.

Maybe sending in letters by every one holding accounts with them would get the ball going.

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Well, evetually that is what we are going to do.

I took a class in CONTRACT LAW, I've been in business for 10 yrs and know the right words to get to right people.

Eventually I'm going to get the person in charge off/responsible for Capitol-One's policy of not reporting the high credit limit.

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<blockquote>Originally posted by ADSOFT

Well, evetually that is what we are going to do.

I took a class in CONTRACT LAW, I've been in business for 10 yrs and know the right words to get to right people.

Eventually I'm going to get the person in charge off/responsible for Capitol-One's policy of not reporting the high credit limit.

</blockquote>

Like I said, Christine over @ Bayhouse has a suit going on against Fair Isaac, Cap 1 and others.........Go check out her site.

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