stevem5000 Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Well, I've been out of action for a couple of months...and starting up my repair efforts again...I need to know the situation on getting the OC to validate...Is an OC required to validate under the FCRA???Here is the deal...I took out a small loan several years ago, I did not handle it very well, my fault...It shows up on all 3 CRA's, as it properly should...I have no problem with that...The problem is that it ALSO shows up on my wife's CRA's...and neither she nor I recall her co-signing on this loan...We cannot find the original papers...She sent 3 requests to validate and all they did was verify that there was some activity on the account...Now I am ready to sue in small claims, but I want to be certain that the OC has to validate under the provisions of the FCRA before I file...I have looked thru the FCRA act and I cannot find where it specifically says that the OC is NOT required to respond to a validation request...although I seem to remember reading somewhere that the OC does in fact NOT have to validate...I need some clarification on this point...ThanxSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADSOFT Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 What state are you in???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted June 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Adsoft...I'm in Missouri...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Additional info...The loan was paid off several years ago..I do not owe anything...the hit I have on my CR is accurate and I am not disputing it...The only issue is that the hit is also on my wife's CR and we don't think she was a co-signer...All I want is for the OC to prove that she did in fact sign the note...if she did then we have no argument...But if she did NOT sign, or they cannot prove that she did then I wan to get the hit on her CR removed...So I guess this problem is pretty different from most of the issues on this board...Hope someone has the answer...thanxSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisflomi Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 CompanyAddress1Address2City, State ZipDateRE: Account XXXXX-XXXX-XXXXXDear Sir/Madame:I am writing to dispute the account referenced above. I have disputed this account information as inaccurate with the credit bureaus <insert names of credit bureaus here>, and you have been able to verify this debt. How is this possible? I was <not late> <this is not my account> <I am only an authorized user>.In the event that you can not verify the item pursuant to the FCRA, and you continue to list the disputed item on my credit report I will find it necessary to sue you for actual defamation damages and declaratory relief under the FCRA. According to this regulation, I may sue you in any qualified state or federal court, including small claims court in my area. You have severely limited my ability to <purchase a home> <get a job> <get a credit card>.In light of the recent court case opinion No. 00-15946 CV-99-00290-D.C. by the US Court of Appeals 9th Circuit, Nelson Vs. Chase Manhattan, the court ruled that the creditor has the responsibility to investigate and make sure that correct information is being reported to the bureaus, and that the consumer has a right to sue under the FCRA, should his or her rights be violated.While I prefer not to litigate, I will use the courts as needed to enforce my rights under the FCRA.I look forward to an uneventful resolution of this matter.Sincerely,SignatureYour NameYour AddressCity, State ZipEnclosures <you can enclose a copy of the court case referenced above> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted July 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Thanx for the form letter, this is very good...I failed to note that I have been following validation procedures, I have sent 2 letters to the OC, with a CMRR and after the 2ed letter I got a letter from them saying that they had been looking into the issue and they enclosed print out off a computer screen showing the activity of the account, when payments were made, the lateness of the payments etc...No evidence was provided that my wife co-signed on the note...which is what I am looking for...Once again, the note is paid in full, I was late several times and my CR has been dinged and I am not fighting that issue...I just want the OC to validate that in fact my wife is a co-signer to the note and if they cannot validate then I want her CR cleared up...I know this is "out of the ordinary", which is why I am asking the more experienced members of this forum if your collective opinion is whether or not ...IN THIS TYPE OF CASE...the OC is required to validate under the FCRA laws...Thanx Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisflomi Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 The oc does not validate, and a validation letter will not work at all for them. They are not bound by the fdcpa and any letter you send with reference to fdcpa will be thrown out by an oc. The letter above should work for you. You should also look through your state laws including the uniform commercial code and see if there is anything in there about oc's having to send full accounting when requested. If you can't find anything, send the letter above, which is from the good credit is sexy series. It would do you good to buy that book and get the free cd that comes with it. Its a bible for credit repair so to speak. Whatever you do, remember, don't send a dv letter to an oc or the cras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Steve- In order for you to bring suit under the FCRA for incorrect reporting, you HAVE TO dispute it with the CRA's as well. Otherwise, you have no private right of action to sue. That is what the case of Nelson v. Chase Manhattan is about. You can read the case hereNelson v. Chase ManhattanThe answer to the objection was given in oral argument by counsel for amicus Federal Trade Commission, as follows. It can be inferred from the structure of the statute that Congress did not want furnishers of credit information exposed to suit by any and every consumer dissatisfied with the credit information furnished. Hence, Congress limited the enforcement of the duties imposed by § 1681s-2(a) to governmental bodies. But Congress did provide a filtering mechanism in § 1681s-2( by making the disputatious consumer notify a CRA and setting up the CRA to receive notice of the investigation by the furnisher. See 15 U.S.C. § 1681i(a)(3) (allowing CRA to terminate reinvestigation of disputed item if CRA "reasonably determines that the dispute by the consumer is frivolous or irrelevant" ). With this filter in place and opportunity for the furnisher to save itself from liability by taking the steps required by § 1681s-2(, Congress put no limit on private enforcement under § § 1681n & o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericasf Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Swede,If he disputes it with the CRAs and they refuse to do anything about it as well, can he sue the CRAs as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 <blockquote>Originally posted by ericasfSwede,If he disputes it with the CRAs and they refuse to do anything about it as well, can he sue the CRAs as well?</blockquote>Sure- but all the CRA's are required to do, are to use reasonable procedures to ensure maximum accuracy. When he disputes with the CRAs, they'll most likely perform an investigation and it'll be hard to prove that they did not use reasonable procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted July 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Thanx Swede and ericasf...Not being a lawyer, the legal mumbo jumbo is a little tough to wade thru and understand...My understanding is this...I dispute with the CRA's who have this negative report on their files...(the big 3)...Then I dispute with the OC, requesting validation and refer to the Nelson v Chase Manhattan...Then, after a month or so...assuming nothing will happen in my favor, at that point I can sue in small claims court or in civil court, against all 3 CRA's and the OC...But that is likely to go no where because I cannot prove that the CRA's did NOT use diligent effort to determine the nature of and/or IF there is an error in reporting late payements on my wifes credit report...So, I think this leaves me in "limbo land"...probably can't fight it because I really can't prove anything one way or the other UNLESS the OC is willing to provide me with a xerox copy of the ORIGINAL note which would show whether or not my wife was in fact a co-signor...And under the FCRA I cannot FORCE the OC to provide that document...Which means there is no point on pursueing this any further...Do I have this about right???Thanx for you input guys...Any further comments are appreciatedSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 <blockquote>Originally posted by stevem5000My understanding is this...I dispute with the CRA's who have this negative report on their files...(the big 3)...Then I dispute with the OC, requesting validation and refer to the Nelson v Chase Manhattan...</blockquote>Yes, dispute as "not mine"<blockquote>Originally posted by stevem5000Then, after a month or so...assuming nothing will happen in my favor, at that point I can sue in small claims court or in civil court, against all 3 CRA's and the OC...</blockquote>No, not so fast Tiger, you're goal is to get this stuff off, not really to go to court. When the 30 days are up and it's still there, I'd send a letter to the OC stating that they're reporting incorrect information and you are requesting proof of their claim, don't quote the terms debt validation and the FDCPA but instead the FCRA. Track it and dispute again with the CRA. If they respond, they need to include a notice of your dispute which they normally don't so you'll have a violation.<blockquote>Originally posted by stevem5000So, I think this leaves me in "limbo land"...probably can't fight it because I really can't prove anything one way or the other UNLESS the OC is willing to provide me with a xerox copy of the ORIGINAL note which would show whether or not my wife was in fact a co-signor...And under the FCRA I cannot FORCE the OC to provide that document...</blockquote>You can force them if you do take them to court, the goal is to use enough leverage to have them remove before actually going to court. <blockquote>Originally posted by stevem5000Which means there is no point on pursueing this any further...</blockquote>Not at all, this is an OC which means that they'll care a LOT more about their reputation. You should file complaints with the BBB/FTC/AG/PFB and if all else fails and they refuse to remove, you can always get the necessary paperwork to file in small claims, fill it out but don't file it and send it to the OC and state "you now have my next communication in your possession should you fail to comply with Federal Law and continue to report inaccurate information- cure or be sued, jackass".If you don't want to do this, you can always continue to dispute every so often using different reasons and hope they don't reply in a timely manner resulting in deletion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tog404 Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 this is to add to what sisflomi said. i sent oc dv letter it was a paid charge off and they sent letter back to me stamped received on certain date, and they sent another letter along with it stating they needed copy of credit report and ss# i waited 30 days sent second dv letter and they deleted. before i did any of this i disputed with cra and they verified guess i was lucky, but i took a chance because i wanted it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted July 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 Thanx again Swede and everyone...So, if I am understanding everything correctly...here is my battle plan...1. My wife send the first 2 validation letters to the OC...about 2 months ago...2. I am going to send a letterto the OC, asking in nice terms for a copy of the original note showing signatures...I expect I will not get it back...If he does send me a copy and it does have my wife's sig as a co-signer...then the job is over and the hit on her CRA report is legitimate...3. I just sent off 3 letters to the big 3 CRA's, make sure it is still listed on all 3...4. I get the credit reports back...I expect the item is still there...I dispute with the big 3 with the issue being..."not mine"...5. At this time I dispute with the OC stating that they are reporting incorrect information and I want proof (validation) of their claim...per the FCRA...6. The OC will say it is good but will NOT send me a copy of the note with the sigs...7. I will again dispute with the big 3 CRA's, including my letters to the OC...they will come back after about 30 days saying it is correct...8. But the CRA's probably will NOT have a comment in the CR saying it is in dispute...that is the violation at this point...9. Now I file complaints with the BBB/AG/FTC/...fill out paperwork with the small claims court in my area...but don't acutally file the claim yet... attach copies of everything and hit the OC again and explain my next step if he does not comply with the FCRA...Do I have this about right???Thanx again everyoneSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassFan Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 <blockquote>Originally posted by stevem50003. I just sent off 3 letters to the big 3 CRA's, make sure it is still listed on all 3...4. I get the credit reports back...I expect the item is still there...I dispute with the big 3 with the issue being..."not mine"...5. At this time I dispute with the OC stating that they are reporting incorrect information and I want proof (validation) of their claim...per the FCRA...6. The OC will say it is good but will NOT send me a copy of the note with the sigs...7. I will again dispute with the big 3 CRA's, including my letters to the OC...they will come back after about 30 days saying it is correct...8. But the CRA's probably will NOT have a comment in the CR saying it is in dispute...that is the violation at this point...</blockquote>Close...but not quite. You want to send your letters to the OC, and send them CMRR. As soon as they are received, you want to dispute with the CRAs. If it comes back as verified, and doesn't show the dispute, that's the violation.If you get something from the OC that says it's valid, and then you dispute with the CRAs, then it's no longer in dispute with the OC...they've resolved the dispute. Therefore, they wouldn't have to notify the CRA that it's in dispute.At least, that's how I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem5000 Posted July 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 BrassFan...Thanx...Double checking... <blockquote>Close...but not quite. You want to send your letters to the OC, and send them CMRR. As soon as they are received,</blockquote> Meaning, as soon as I REVIEVE BACK FROM THE OC whatever they are going to send me....NOT as soon as the OC recieves my validation request....That begs the question...since my wife sent 2 validation requests to the OC, CMRR, about 2 months ago and the OC responded but did NOT validiate...at that point the OC has a responsibility to report to the CRA's that the negative "hit" is in dispute???...Am I understanding this correctly??? <blockquote>If you get something from the OC that says it's valid,</blockquote> Meaning that my wife did in fact co-sign on the note with me, and the OC provided me a copy of that note with the signatures intact to prove to me that the OC's claims are correct....That being the case, I have no dispute with the CRA's as they are reporting the negative item on her CR correctly... <blockquote>and then you dispute with the CRAs, then it's no longer in dispute with the OC</blockquote> Providing the OC did not contact the CRA's and have the negative item removed...which I probably won't know until I get another copy of her credit reports from the big 3...Now, if the OC is unable or unwilling to validate my request and does not have the negative item removed from the CRA's...what is my next step????....If I dispute with the CRA's, and they go back to the OC and the OC says it is in fact a good verification, (not valildation)...I suspect the CRA's will leave the negative item in my wifes CR...Does this then constitute a violation under FCRA???...then does that put me in a postion to sue either or both the OC and the CRA's???Swede is right...I do NOT, NOT want to sue anyone...it is more of a hassle than it is worth...but even though my credit report looks like Attila the Hun bled all over it, my wife's CR is in pretty good shape and I want to keep it that way, if possible...Many thank for all the comments and help...Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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