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Well, it's THAT time.........

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I need your input on this!

OK, here's the whole thing aboput my 22 acct deal. I have to make a decision now, jump, or get off the diving board. Sorry this is so long.

Here’s the scenario:

9-20- checked TU and EX CR’s. Saw accounts on my EX report from CA named FCS. 12 of these same accounts were on my TU report. These were opened in 96, 97, and were supposedly not charged off until 98. They also weren’t put on my reports until 12-99.

9-25- sent validation letters for all 23 accounts.

10-11- got this back as validation for only 16 of these accounts:


Please note that a separate form must be filled out for EACH SEPARATE ACCOUNT.

Please provide all of the following information and submit the appropriate forms and paperwork within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this request for validation.

Name and Address of Alleged Creditor:________________KD_Hospital_____________________________

Name on File of Alleged Debtor:


Alleged Account #:


Address on File for Alleged Debtor:

______________________(The correct address)________________________

Amount of alleged debt: ___________________________$60__________________________________

Date that this alleged debt became payable:


Date of original charge off or delinquency:


Was this debt assigned to debt collector or purchased? ________________________Assigned_________________________________

· Please attach a copy of the agreement with your client that grants FCS the authority to collect this alleged debt. N/A

· Please attach a copy of any signed agreement debtor has made with debt collector, or other verifiable proof that debtor has a contractual obligation to pay debt collector. N/A

· Please attach a copy of any agreement that bears the signature of debtor, wherein he/she agreed to pay creditor. N/A

· Please attach copies of all statements while this account was open. N/A

___Same lady that signed my CMRRR that works for the CA, NOT the hospital___

Authorized Signature For Creditor



You must return this completed form along with copies of all requested information, assignments or other transfer agreements, which would establish your right to collect this alleged debt within 30 days from the date of your receipt of this letter. Your claim cannot and WILL NOT be considered if any portion of this form is not completed and returned with copies of all requested documents. This is a request for validation made pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Please allow 30 days for processing after I receive this information back.

(Next Page)


1327675[TAB]Demoncasterouter, Mrs.

ACCT: 1327675[TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]Guar: (My correct social sec#)

Demoncasterouter, Mrs.[TAB][TAB][TAB]Demoncasterouter, Mr.

My old address[TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]My old address

My old City[TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]My old city

My old phone[TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB][TAB]My old phone


OP[TAB][TAB]DISCHARGE:[TAB][TAB][TAB]AR CHG: 178.00SLF 123.25 5/14/96

BD 02/25/97 LST STMT: H 07/16/96 BALANCE: 123.25



1636[TAB][TAB][TAB]One to one Observation per HR[TAB] 2[TAB] 86.00

2873[TAB][TAB][TAB]Monitor, Fetal external[TAB][TAB][TAB]1[TAB] 92.00





(End pages)

This is only an example of one of these. They only sent back validation for 16 of the accounts. The above printout had the hospitals stamp on it. But it looked like a wet stamp. The rest are similar, w/ different dates, but no contracts. Looks almost like full validation, doesn’t it? Anyway, I’ll go on:

10-01-02 disputed w/ TU and EX.

11-03-02 received disputes back. 1 was deleted from TU, leaving 12 verified. 1 was deleted from EX, leaving 22 verified.

Now, remember they validated ONLY 16 of the 22 accounts. So, basically, if this is partial validation (which that’s part of what I’m asking you, because they sent no contracts), then that’s 2 FDCPA and 2 FCRA violations for verifying w/ TU and EX after only partially validating.

If these are fully validated, then that’s still 1 FDCPA and 1 FCRA violation for verifying 6 non-validated accounts (22-16=6). But which is it?

Other 2 violations are for failure to investigate ALL of the accounts (FCRA). And failure to report the accounts as “in dispute” w/ the CRA’s (FCRA). So a total of 4 violations in all…….I think…???

The story goes on:

11-11-02 sent intent to sue based on violations to the vice president. Didn’t hear a word back.

12-02-02 complained to FTC, and BBB.

12-05-02 got a fed-exed letter from VP (I wonder why???? HAHA). The following is her response letter. The things that are in quotes, are the things that I wrote to her:

Dear Mr. Demoncasterouter,

In our continuing effort to satisfy your request for validation of some 22 unpaid balances w/ KD Hospital, I will attempt to address your issues as they have been written.

As stated in your communications, you are not refusing to pay, but you dispute the bills. To date we have not been told specifically what is in dispute. In records previously sent top you the info indicates medical services were provided to you, your wife, and children in 1996 and 1997. Most balances due are after your insurance paid. Additionally, I find no records that indicate any dispute for the last 5-6 years.

Issues as stated in your letter:

"When an alleged debtor requests debt validation, it is up to the collection agency to obtain the information directly from the original creditor, and to mail that information to the debtor."

You state…”you have merely copied what you have in your computers, placed a KD stamp upon it, and mailed it to me…”

Your statement of fact is not only inaccurate, but totally untrue. The documents mailed to you were produced by KD Hospital Staff and sent to FCS. We placed our stamp of disclosure on each page (as required by law) and mailed them to you.

"You MUST provide a copy of a signed agreement between yourself and the hospital, which proves that FCS has authorization to collect on these accounts."

I am not aware of a law that requires me to provide you a copy of our contract with KD. Although you quoted one case and several rules, I find no evidence in your correspondence to substantiate this demand. If you will provide me a copy of this law, a duplicate of our contract will be sent immediately.

"You MUST provide a contractual agreement whereby I am legally obligated to pay Financial Control Services."

You are not obligated to pay FCS.

"You have not even provided a signed contract, whereby I have agreed to pay the original creditor."

I’m sure you are aware of the recent changes in the law protecting your health information (this is where signatures are maintained). We have requested copies of signed financial responsibility statements from KDH. They are in the process of gathering these copies from Medical Records. The approximate date we have been given is December 10th. With the new laws in place, we must know if you dispute having medical care provided to you, your wife, and children by KDH as reflected in the itemized statements you received. We can only provide this information to the patient/guarantor. Your confirmation will be needed to mail you this data.

The signature on the financial responsibility statement is also the hospital’s authorization to bill your insurance…which has paid. Any personal responsibility would be defined in your policy…(i.e.) deductibles, co-pay, out-of-network charges, etc.

"Under the heading “Authorized signature for creditor”, Ms. Alfred E. Newman placed her own signature in this slot. Ms. Newman is NOT an authorized signatory for the hospital."

Please advise who you consider “Authorized”.

"Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies…duty to provide accurate information.

A. Reporting information with actual knowledge of errors. A person shall not furnish any information relating to a consumer to any reporting agency if the person knows or consciously avoids knowing that the information is inaccurate."

The information we have dates back to 1996/97 and, until now, has never been disputed. To date we do not know what you consider to be an error and what is inaccurate about the information we have.

"B. Reporting information after notice and confirmation of errors. A person shall not furnish information relating to a consumer to any consumer reporting agency if the person has been notified by the consumer that specific information is inaccurate and the information is, in fact, inaccurate."

ANY inaccurate information we have will be corrected immediately. But first we must be made aware of the error. Once again, I encourage you to notify me of the erroneous reporting.

Please rest assured that FCS and KDH work diligently to maintain accurate information. We are here to work with you in any way possible to resolve your dispute.


Ms. VP.

Looks like a song and dance letter intended for the FTC or the BBB (whichever got to her first). Anyway, I’m at that time now. I have to decide now how to proceed: file suit or negotiate. I think I have a good case, but that doesn’t mean anything. Do you think a judge would think I have a good case?

This looks like I have them on 4 violations, but I wanna know from the experts: YOU GUYS!

[Edit by demoncasterouter on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 @ 08:39 AM]

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Wow, that's a long post!

I would first reply back and tell them that what you are disputing is whether or not these bills belong to you at all. This is the "specific" information about what is being disputed. Also, she didn't provide a signature. Is this specific law under the FDCPA - nope! However, there is a burden of proof on the creditor to prove that YOU owe the money or they can't report.

About the 4 violations? I'm not sure, can you spell out what you think?

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I think I have them on this:

1. I sent validation.

2. I sent dispute to CRA's.

3. They validated (or partially validated) 16 of the 22 accounts.

4. They verified all 22 of these to Experian after only validating 16 of them(1st VIOLATION).

5. They did not report these as disputed, and still haven't to the CRA's. (2nd and 3rd VIOLATIONS).

6. They failed to investigate all 22 of the accounts (4th VIOLATION).

She says "you aren't obligated to pay FCS." So now can't I say "THEN TAKE THESE OFF MY REPORT!!!!"

She also says the hospital is attempting to come up w/ the signed contracts. If they do, this will hurt my case, won't it? Or can I still maintain that they didn't report as in dispute, etc.?

My over all question is: since they are attempting to comply, does this pretty much kill my case?????

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Demon, my apologies for the pm i sent you over at the FCM, I hadnt read all the dates correct. Now on to other things.

Do not give the hospital your permission to disclose your account info to the DC if the hospital request so.

They can only release this info if its agreed upon in the admission papers you signed"providing they can provide them to you"

If any of the test that were done, come thru the DC with the Results of that test being listed, You can nail the hospital to the wall for violation of Dr. Patient privacy.

Check into your state laws covering Medical Privacy and also check the HIPPA laws.

BTW, are they aware that you know the SOL has expired?

Have they threatend civil action?

Any chance you can gode them into filing suit against you??


[Edit by georgiaboy on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 @ 06:09 PM]

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Hows this, maybe im reaching, if the sol is up, they are no longer able to collect on it, because its not permitted by law?

Sect (1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law.


Its plainly says, The collection of any amount.

[Edit by georgiaboy on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 @ 04:06 PM]

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