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CHEXSYSTEMS and PI


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Well now that we have been here a little while and we have been doing our reading on the FCRA and we have been hammering on the PI, procedural Investion, topic.

What do you guys think would happen if you were to dispute a CHEXSYSTEMS blemish and request a PI??

I think this would be good topic for the weekend, kind of an intellectual excercise?

All comments welcome, even those of people on CHEXSYSTEMs yet not versed on FCRA, ...tell us how you got on CHEXSYSTEMS, aka CS.

.....

....... :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Edit by ADSOFT on Sunday, May 25, 2003 @ 08:13 PM]

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They actually don't give you the opportunity. In my case, I disputed the first round and in their verification, they sent all the copies of the information that they received from the original bank, along with phone number and address info for who to contact if there was further dispute. They even included my last statement showing the NSF fees and copies of the signature cards. No chance for a PI.

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<blockquote>Originally posted by lisak72

They actually don't give you the opportunity. In my case, I disputed the first round and in their verification, they sent all the copies of the information that they received from the original bank, along with phone number and address info for who to contact if there was further dispute. They even included my last statement showing the NSF fees and copies of the signature cards. No chance for a PI.

</blockquote>

I'm betting that you can request a PI that states they prove how th NSF was generated, if their procedures are screwed up or their computer can be proven to have faulty data, which I beleive that was the case in your situation, that is a FLAGRANT violation of FCRA and the NSF has to come off. At that point you send the results of the PI to the FTC, and I bet they will come down on them REAL HARD???

??????? ????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

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As far as the CRA though, this is all the information that they need to validate that there was an NSF on this account. They further investigation requires going to the OC/Bank themselves and do DV...forcing them to validate ALL transactions as well as their procedures on reporting debts to CS. Each bank is different on what they report, how they report, how long they wait to report, etc. So you have to get that information directly from them and go from there. In my case, the bank reports after 30 days of nonpayment of the NSF. If they cannot show WHEN that payment was made, they are in violation for reporting without being able to verify. The burden of proof is actually on them for not being able to show WHEN this was paid, whether before or after that 30 day limit. It's their word against mine basically. Not much for a lawsuit, but will certainly hang them in not being able to properly validate, but reporting anyway.

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<blockquote>Originally posted by lisak72

As far as the CRA though, this is all the information that they need to validate that there was an NSF on this account. They further investigation requires going to the OC/Bank themselves and do DV...forcing them to validate ALL transactions as well as their procedures on reporting debts to CS. Each bank is different on what they report, how they report, how long they wait to report, etc. So you have to get that information directly from them and go from there. In my case, the bank reports after 30 days of nonpayment of the NSF. If they cannot show WHEN that payment was made, they are in violation for reporting without being able to verify. The burden of proof is actually on them for not being able to show WHEN this was paid, whether before or after that 30 day limit. It's their word against mine basically. Not much for a lawsuit, but will certainly hang them in not being able to properly validate, but reporting anyway.

</blockquote>

Well, I agree that you got them on the not being able to validate the information, they are reporting wrong stuff issue. Hey, if they can't prove it has to come off I KNOW that is in the FCRA, I can dig that up it has to be in section 23:

... wait. I'll get it now.

§ 623. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies [15 U.S.C. § 1681s-2]

(a) Duty of furnishers of information to provide accurate information.

(1) Prohibition.

(A) Reporting information with actual knowledge of errors. A person shall not furnish any information relating to a consumer to any consumer reporting agency if the person knows or consciously avoids knowing that the information is inaccurate.

... and in

(2) Duty to correct and update information. A person who

(A) regularly and in the ordinary course of business furnishes information to one or more consumer reporting agencies about the person's transactions or experiences with any consumer; and

(B) has furnished to a consumer reporting agency information that the person determines is not complete or accurate,

You got them in reporting data 1) with errors 2)reporting incomplete data, ..

That's how I see it. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Edit by ADSOFT on Sunday, May 25, 2003 @ 08:02 PM]

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<blockquote>Originally posted by lisak72

As far as the CRA though, this is all the information that they need to validate that there was an NSF on this account. They further investigation requires going to the OC/Bank themselves and do DV...forcing them to validate ALL transactions as well as their procedures on reporting debts to CS. Each bank is different on what they report, how they report, how long they wait to report, etc. So you have to get that information directly from them and go from there. In my case, the bank reports after 30 days of nonpayment of the NSF. If they cannot show WHEN that payment was made, they are in violation for reporting without being able to verify. The burden of proof is actually on them for not being able to show WHEN this was paid, whether before or after that 30 day limit. It's their word against mine basically. Not much for a lawsuit, but will certainly hang them in not being able to properly validate, but reporting anyway.

</blockquote>

Also, after reading this one more time, it looks like you didn't get the MINI-MARANDAS. That is also a violation. And I beiieve there is a 90 day rule before it goes into collection.

What did they do, send you your Mini_Maranda's 1 second after they closed your accound.

I'm willing to bet If you would appeal you sitation to the FTC, the will over turn

Hey, that's an angle we haven't investiagted yet on the FCRA, is there a section where in certain cases you can appeal to the FTC. You know grey areas.

..... => :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Edit by ADSOFT on Sunday, May 25, 2003 @ 08:22 PM]

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Just bumping on this,

I had a question, when the BANK submits this information to the the CRA, in this case chexsystems, is it bounded by the FDCPA, udere its debt collections practices????

I seen somewhere in the FDCPA a reference to banks????

[Edit by ADSOFT on Monday, May 26, 2003 @ 12:46 PM]

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I think I have a decent chance at winning a lawsuit againt as collection agency that has 2 accounts on my credit report. I have never filed a lawsuit before so I need some help. I have seen people talk about filing a small claims lawsuit as well as filing a Federal lawsuit. Besides the "obvious" what is the difference and how do I go about filing for either one?

Here is my story and any suggestions on if you think I should sue (and if I should do either small claims court or federal). I had never received any correspondace from this CA (it is possible that they sent it but I have moved recently so it could have gotten lost although I did file a change of address and have gotten other mail from the old address). Anyway, I recently pulled my report and noticed the 2 accounts. I wrote a letter notifying the CA that I did not know these accounts were going unpaid and offered to pay in full if they would remove from the CRAs. They responded claiming that was illegal and immoral etc. So, I sent a DV letter via Certified Mail. I really just wanted to get the items off my report so I sent another letter telling them that I too was attempting to track down the information to "double check" the forthcoming validation information they were required to send me and offering to forgoe the validation if they would just agree to remove the accounts from the CRAs but if they would not agree to this then I still expected the validation information. They responded with a letter basically stating they were preparing a lawsuit and the only way to get them to stop would be to pay them. I faxed and sent back a letter notifying them that they were in violation of the FDCPA and that if they continued, I would file a lawsuit. I once again made them a final offer to pay in full for removal from the CRAs. They then sent back another letter saying they had received my fax (but I assume the mailed version crossed in the mail) and that they were going to proceed with a lawsuit etc. and to cease and desist contacting their office. To this date theyhave never attempted to send any validation information (not even a lame account printout or anything). After they received the validation letter, I disputed the items with the CRAs and found out that at least for Transunion, they verified it. The full 30 days isn't actually up until May 30th but I don't expect to get any validation so I would like to start preparing everything to file a lawsuit.

I was going to try to just contact the OC and request they pull the account to just work directly with me. But the wierd thing is, I can not find any information for the OC. In all the correspondence and credit report information, it only refers to the OC as "Western Anesthesia". As I said, I cannot find any info for this company (searched both my state's and national BBB, local phonebook, search engines on the Internet. etc) so I don't know if they still exist or ever really existed.

Am I correct that I have at least 2 violations of the FDCPA.

- One violation because they contacted me in an attempt to collect (it even has those words at the bottom of the letter) before validating the debt

- One violation for verifying it with at least one of the CRAs before validating

I have already filed complaints against the CA with the BBB, State Attorney General, and the FTC. So, should I also sue and in which court (small claims or federal).

Thanks,

Kory

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<blockquote>Originally posted by KoryBricker

Am I correct that I have at least 2 violations of the FDCPA.

- One violation because they contacted me in an attempt to collect (it even has those words at the bottom of the letter) before validating the debt

::snip snip::

So, I sent a DV letter via Certified Mail. I really just wanted to get the items off my report so I sent another letter telling them that I too was attempting to track down the information to "double check" the forthcoming validation information they were required to send me and offering to forgoe the validation if they would just agree to remove the accounts from the CRAs but if they would not agree to this then I still expected the validation information. They responded with a letter basically stating they were preparing a lawsuit and the only way to get them to stop would be to pay them.

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<blockquote>Originally posted by KoryBricker

I think I have a decent chance at winning a lawsuit againt as collection agency that has 2 accounts on my credit report. I have never filed a lawsuit before so I need some help. I have seen people talk about filing a small claims lawsuit as well as filing a Federal lawsuit. Besides the "obvious" what is the difference and how do I go about filing for either one?

Here is my story and any suggestions on if you think I should sue (and if I should do either small claims court or federal). I had never received any correspondace from this CA (it is possible that they sent it but I have moved recently so it could have gotten lost although I did file a change of address and have gotten other mail from the old address). Anyway, I recently pulled my report and noticed the 2 accounts. I wrote a letter notifying the CA that I did not know these accounts were going unpaid and offered to pay in full if they would remove from the CRAs. They responded claiming that was illegal and immoral etc. So, I sent a DV letter via Certified Mail. I really just wanted to get the items off my report so I sent another letter telling them that I too was attempting to track down the information to "double check" the forthcoming validation information they were required to send me and offering to forgoe the validation if they would just agree to remove the accounts from the CRAs but if they would not agree to this then I still expected the validation information. They responded with a letter basically stating they were preparing a lawsuit and the only way to get them to stop would be to pay them. I faxed and sent back a letter notifying them that they were in violation of the FDCPA and that if they continued, I would file a lawsuit. I once again made them a final offer to pay in full for removal from the CRAs. They then sent back another letter saying they had received my fax (but I assume the mailed version crossed in the mail) and that they were going to proceed with a lawsuit etc. and to cease and desist contacting their office. To this date theyhave never attempted to send any validation information (not even a lame account printout or anything). After they received the validation letter, I disputed the items with the CRAs and found out that at least for Transunion, they verified it. The full 30 days isn't actually up until May 30th but I don't expect to get any validation so I would like to start preparing everything to file a lawsuit.

I was going to try to just contact the OC and request they pull the account to just work directly with me. But the wierd thing is, I can not find any information for the OC. In all the correspondence and credit report information, it only refers to the OC as "Western Anesthesia". As I said, I cannot find any info for this company (searched both my state's and national BBB, local phonebook, search engines on the Internet. etc) so I don't know if they still exist or ever really existed.

Am I correct that I have at least 2 violations of the FDCPA.

- One violation because they contacted me in an attempt to collect (it even has those words at the bottom of the letter) before validating the debt

- One violation for verifying it with at least one of the CRAs before validating

I have already filed complaints against the CA with the BBB, State Attorney General, and the FTC. So, should I also sue and in which court (small claims or federal).

Thanks,

Kory

</blockquote>

Well, Kory I'm not a lawyer but I've read both the CRA and the FDCPA,

I think you have a hell-of-a-lot more than that on them but you are going to have to take some steps to have them put there position on paper, directly or indirectly.

First let's talk about FDCPA.

1) They have to validate you DEBT:

Debt is defined as:

... in the FDCPA on the board: look in the definitions section

(5) The term "debt" means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment.

... The word you want to focus on their is "OBLIGATION", ie contract. Get on the net GOOGLE, look up CONTRACT LAW and see how it refers to OBLIGATION, in contract law, OBLIGATION is a strong word.

So you are going to have to away from trying to settle for now, get them to try to VALIDATE YOUR DEBT(CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION).

There are some posts from some of the more experienced members of this board, that say they can start to sue you, but they have to make a stay until they validate the debt.

There are some tests for proper validation, read the top board under validation.

Regaring the PI: and the CRA,

Its, is your right to request:

From the FCRA on the top board: Section 11

....

(iii) a notice that, if requested by the consumer, a description of the procedure used to determine the accuracy and completeness of the information shall be provided to the consumer by the agency, including the business name and address of any furnisher of information contacted in connection with such information and the telephone number of such furnisher, if reasonably available;

So write a letter to the CRA and say something like.

Dear CRA

I'm excercising my right under SECTION xxxx of the FCRA, which states:

(iii) a notice that, if requested by the consumer, a description of the procedure used to determine the accuracy and completeness of the information shall be provided to the consumer by the agency, including the business name and address of any furnisher of information contacted in connection with such information and the telephone number of such furnisher, if reasonably available;

I've repeaditly have asked you and your client to remove the above mentioned item due to lack of proper validation of this debt under the terms of the FDCPA, so now I'm asking that you

1. Provide with the name, addressess, etc of agency verifiing the information

2. Delete it due to lack of proper validation after requesting validation from the below mentioned CA, they have not properly validated my DEBT/CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION and its been more than 45 days: ... Send/FAX copy of letter.

3. Please be aware that reporting incorrect information (and I'm sure that the management staff in your company would agree, that improperly validated informations is "incorrect") on a consumers' credit report is in violation of the FCRA and can get your company in trouble with the FTC and other local regulatory agencies.

... I'm giving you 30 days to provide me this information or else I will be obligated to take further action. ... Your cooperation would be appreciated.

I can be reached by mail at: xxxx,xxxxx,xxxx,xxx

I hope that helps, If you have any other questions, please post.

I was in a very simular situation, but at the time I didn't know what to do, thanks to the senior members of this board, I have more information now to protect my credit worthiness and I'm not at the mercy of these OC,CA'S, DEBT COLLECTION LAWYERS, and legal bureacracy!!!!

Hope that helps, Good Luck!!

[Edit by ADSOFT on Sunday, June 1, 2003 @ 12:54 PM]

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