collection law

[Anonymous]

is there a law as to how many days a creditor (in this case medical) can turn the account over to collections? can it be turned over after only 37 days late from the first due date?

[kb9tbq]

Well if you had insurance, they sure should of waited longer for it to go through.

If they had a idea that you had no insurance some of them do move this fast, unfortunately.

If you want to settle this - deal directly with the creditor and pay them, then request that they retract the collection agency and get a confirmation letter that they will do so.

[Anonymous]

i did have insurance but they listed "self pay" on the first statement. and the statement said "do not pay" then i got a bill a few weeks later stating it was going to CA in 10 days.(this was my first bill!)i called them and gave them the ins info. it was turned over to the CA and my insurance paid the OC $199.(not the CA) it wasn't until i saw it on my CR that i saw it listed as a collection for $220. i called them and they told me that the insurance paid $199. and they never billed me the remaining? ($20.) is it a law that the CA should had sent me a letter with 30days to dispute? i have called them several times. they refuse to remove. i did get some good avice to speak to someone higher up. i will call tomorrow. i'm just looking for grounds to approach them with. can i say that they didn't send me a 30day letter to dispute? that the oc took the payment after it was turned over to the CA? and that they had to bill me for the $20 and never did? will any of these issues help me?

And i did call the OC she was as nice as could be. she was even sorry she couldn't help me. but she spoke with her supervisor who spoke with the guy i spoke with at the CA. and told me that the guy from the CA won't remove it? i don't understand that. perhaps the CA in tied into the hospitals oc. but it was clear the CA was calling the shots to the OC.

[Edit by lauriesc on Sunday, February 9, 2003 @ 04:29 PM]

and the debt has been paid for over a yr. in full

[Edit by lauriesc on Sunday, February 9, 2003 @ 04:51 PM]

[kb9tbq]

So you have since paid the $20 to the OC or the CA?

This will be hard, initially I would of said dispute with the insurance company:

http://www.consumersunion.org/health/hmo-review/

Still check it out & see if it might be of some help - recently found this site w/ instructions for each state for disputing with insurance companies.

At this point, you are doing the best in the matter - keeping after the hospital for their assistance in the matter. Yes use every document in your means and explain as much as possible to get their understanding in the matter.

[Edit by kb9tbq on Sunday, February 9, 2003 @ 05:27 PM]

[Anonymous]

kb9 i dug through my old check registors and found the check i wrote for $22.15 (my portion/responsability after the ins. paid.(the OC) and it was paid to the OC not the CA. i hope this will help me?

[kb9tbq]

Ok - you have a good start there,

Now not all OC will do, especially if the CA has a special agreement that when a customer pays directly to them. The OC would be required to turn over payment to the CA first for processing, then the CA would give them back the remaining balance. Just so you understand this part, it is a possibility that the OC won't be able to help in this matter.

But show them the check, and request of them that since you paid directly to them, that they retract the CA. Be sure to get a confirmation letter from them if they agree.

Next you take that letter & show the CA, ask them to send you a confirmation letter as well confirming that they will remove their reporting.

Then next show the letter to the CRA, with request to delete the tradeline form your credit report.

Like dominoes - they will all come down, it you follow the trail.

[Anonymous]

ok i called. higher up. and got transferred a few times. they were nice. but still say they can't remove it. only the ca can. i brought up the fact that the hospital was paid and not the CA and that they should retract it based on that. she said although they have been doing it this way for years, she was unsure on the legal issue. she said the checks paid to them are just transferred to the CA. sounds like the ca is in house for the hospital. anyway she gave me a number to call at the CA of someone higher up. any good advice on what to say? can there just transfer the money from the hospital to the CA?

[kb9tbq]

Ok - was afraid of that, yes they can.

But still worth a try to contact that collection agency, and ask nicely, stress the points that you had problems with the hospital billing. And did pay as soon as you realized the insurance was not going to cover, but was delayed in paying only because the hospital stalled in contacting you when the second try at the insurance did not cover the cost.

If they could please, take this into consideration and remove the derogatory information off of your credit report. Also if you are trying to clean up credit report for applying for a mortgage stress this to them, that it is very important to you, beings that this is hurting your chances at a good rate.

You are at their mercy, just have to convey to them your distress in the matter, & hope someone there will by sympathetic to help you.

[Anonymous]

i just called the woman i was told to call. gone for the day. (they are in utah) actually my ins. did pay them. they had me as self pay.(by mistake) my ins finally paid (late) $199. i paid $20. i was reading something.it said."In an assignment, the collection agency does not own the debt, and therefore you do not technically owe them any money. There is no way for a collection agency to prove that you owe them money because there is only an assignment of the debt and not a contract between you and the creditor." does this apply to me? these people just kept saying "it looks like it was reported correctly" help!

[kb9tbq]

my ins. did pay them. they had me as self pay.(by mistake) my ins finally paid (late) $199. i paid $20. i was reading something.it said."In an assignment, the collection agency does not own the debt, and therefore you do not technically owe them any money. There is no way for a collection agency to prove that you owe them money because there is only an assignment of the debt and not a contract between you and the creditor." does this apply to me? these people just kept saying "it looks like it was reported correctly" help!

</blockquote>

Now you are getting into debt validation side of things. I don't particularly cover this subject myself. But from what I read here that others talk about - my understanding any way is that you are converting to totally different tactics (switching over to a hostile offense) with the collection agency.

1. You stop speaking to them - and go by mail only.

2. You want them to validate the debt - they can do this by contacting the hospital to get their original documentation in the matter.

3. Once they provide this to you, it is up to you to find something wrong with their proof. (Like lacking contract, signature, exact billing...).

4. You would dispute with the credit reporting agency (knowing that they will in turn contact the collection agnecy to verify.

5. The collection agency is then suppose to notify the CRA that the account is in dispute.

6. At this point you are trying to find infractions of them breaking the laws, where you would then send threatening letters, possible intent to sue and so forth pointing out all infractions they failed to meet.

Ok - Here is what I see being the problem with this:

1. It is a paid debt - so I don't know how this game plays out on these terms against a paid account.

2. Like you mentioned about your insurance paying most of this, they technically should not have any problems linking the debt back to you.

3. Even if you threaten to sue them, I don't see it holding up for you to go the nine yards on this matter to win... maybe just possible infractions. But in the end I don't see it wipping the slate clean in the credit reporting.

Anyone else have ideas on where to take such a case when collection won't budge? Or any holes in my arrguments here?

[Anonymous]

any and all help is welcome. i'm tring to refi my mortage. this is the only derog i have since my bk many yrs ago. need it removed to get the lower rate. i was looking and correct me if i'm wrong. i'm grasping here. i found this. "A Collection may only go on your credit report 180 days after the debt is owed, according to the Fair Credit Reporting Act." is this true? because the first due date was 9/26/00 and it was reported to the cra 12/00.

[georgiaboy]

Try becoming a little more angry in your letters.

Contact the CA, tell them there continued collection activity on the paid account will no longer be acceptable, regardless of the fact the CRa will tellyou the account will remain for 7 yrs, there is a FTC opinion letter that states that a CA that reports on an account that has not been validated is continued collection activity.

Also, check your state laws, it very possible that your state is like mine and will hold the OC responsible for the actions of the DC, send the OC basically the same letter.

The DC will spout off thats its no longer a debt, thats there problem, there the ones reporting it, they will also tell you that they cant remove it,, there problem also.

The OC will say its out of there hands,, not your problem, its there problem if your state law makes it there problem.

You may even wish to send a intent to sue letter with your next communication to both the OC and DC.

Keep in mind that if your state law says the OC is responsible for the actions of the DC, then the OC will now fall under the FDCPA as well as the FCRA

(Im not a lawyer, although I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express )

P.S. Read up on validation

P.S.S. look up the following thread

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/cgi-local/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=1&thread=3397

[Edit by georgiaboy on Monday, February 10, 2003 @ 08:35 PM]

[Edit by georgiaboy on Monday, February 10, 2003 @ 08:39 PM]

[retmar]

Did you pay the $22.15 at time of service as your co-pay/cost share? If so, you have a strong case that the OC was in error, which, after reading the whole post, is correct. Is this a Hospital or a Doctor? If a Hospital, go there and demand to see the Head Administrator or CEO. If a Doctor's office, go see the Doctor. My son had a similar problem. I, myself, confronted 14 Doctor's and asked them if they had any idea about the billing side of their office (I was curious). Only 3 of them had any idea. The others assumed their managers were doing a good job. LOL. You must be firm, but professional, and tell them how their error has affected you. They can recall that from collection. DO NOT LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENT! All the OC has to do is tell the CA it was their mistake and it shouldn't have been sent to collection. It is known in the industry that it takes at least 30 days to process a claim. Also talk to your insurance company to confirm all aspects of your claim. Get all your info up front before battle. It clearly demonstrates you were not given the proper time to respond to anything. Be sure to have all of those statements which show the errors along with the one that said "do not pay". As to what you said demonstrates to me that that billing office has nothing but unprofessional, imcompetent employees. Be sure to stress this, also. As noted in many other posts, there is no law saying they CAN'T remove the info. This CA is just a (your choice of words). Be sure to tell the CEO or Doctor that you will be sure to share this ordeal with your friends and family and you will complain to anyone who will listen, such as BBB, FTC, AG, etc. Did you explain and show the Mortgage Company what happened? They might have an idea. Don't give up. Keep fighting.

[georgiaboy]

yea, what retmar just said also.

Heres ya another one also, contact the doctor that performed the service and tell him/her you will be filing complaints against him/her for inadequate record keeping with the state med bar.

You drag enough folks into it, someone will do something.

This road I have traveled, bascially the same circumstance, I raised cane with the Hospital CEO CFO, Public Relations Officer, the Doctor that performed the services, and the DC,,magically, in about 3 weeks, the listing was gone from my CR

[Edit by georgiaboy on Monday, February 10, 2003 @ 09:35 PM]

[retmar]

To add to Georgiaboy's post. From what I understand, the Board of Health monitors Hospitals, not Doctors. They don't always get involved with billing, but, as in my case, directed me to who I could complain to. Even though the items had not gone to collection, I had my wife's balance written off with apology. I noted this elsewhere on the site. In regards to my last post on this issue, I was reminded of an episode we had with a Doctor's office. He had forbid my wife to work, yet his office wanted their money. They could care less of the Doctor's orders. My wife talked to him next visit. He wrote off total bill, and terminated the person involved. From that day forward for bills after this incident, we only paid what we could at any time. We paid him in full last year and never a problem. He was my main reason for my asking Doctor's about their offices.

[life]

Since your paid the balance and the insurance company paid the claim --can you tell the mortage people that it is paid and show them your check

and the info from the insurance company.

[Anonymous]

its the fact that i have a collection on there period. this situation is not the norm. my daughter was in utah at a residential treatment center/school for teens.i am in SC. she was there for about 9 months. while she was there they took her to the hospital for blood work. (they had power of attorney from me to do as needed) the bill was frist sent as only a statement. on 8/26 it said 'DO NOT PAY" The first bill came 9/11 and was due 9/26 less then a month later i got a bill on 10/23 stating it was going to collection in 10days. the ins payment for $199. was paid while it was in collection. with so many other bills from my daughters stay. and the fact that i was not billed for the bal. due from me. i didn't know i owed them any money until a yr later. 8/2001 i saw it on my credit report for $220. thats when i called the hospital. they told me the ins pais $199. and i owed $20. so i sent it right in. they now rufuse to remove it.

[retmar]

You should still go back to the original source. Did the center submit the proper info on the insurance at time of service? Why did the provider send to collection before insurance payment knowing it takes at least 30 days from filing of claim? In other words, who caused this to happen? Put the blame where it belongs. If you find provider had info and messed up, why are you liable for the negative info? Go all the way back to A, then follow the trail. You should find the cause, then go for it. Just don't burn bridges in case you need to walk over them again in reaching your goal. You can do it.

[Anonymous]

thanks. i asked them why more time wasn't allowed for the ins to pay. they said that bottom line, it was my responsability to pay it. how can i find out if this statement i read is true?"A Collection may only go on your credit report 180 days after the debt is owed, according to the Fair Credit Reporting Act." is this true? because the first due date was 9/26/00 and it was reported to the cra 12/00.

[retmar]

As to your last, that is a crock of BULL! I have never found a medical facility that sent to collection in only 37 days from service. Most go a minimum of 90 days. Contact your insurance and get the actual date of billing, etc. Ask if they have a department that handles consumer issues with billing and other problems. Ask about the contracts between provider/carrier (Look in Collection section for my post of this title). Just had an idea! LOL! Why not contact the local Ombudsman and see if they can assist. Their number is available at all Hospitals. As I said earlier, go for it. I honestly feel that if you pursue from point A you will eventually win as you will find the cause of the problem and be able to place blame where it belongs. Everybody's behind you. Your other question was already answered so no response there.

[Edit by retmar on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 @ 11:08 PM]