stacykat Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hi, I have a collection from 1997 that just recently appeared on my credit report and is from a CA hired by an apartement complex I use to live at. I am going to write a validation letter, however, I'm not sure what consists of validation for this supposed debt. I believe the collection is for damage to the apartment as I didn't break the lease. They kept my deposit because the carpeting needed to be replaced. I foolishly didn't do a walkthrough and I have a feeling they just fabricated false charges in order to collect money. They probably have a copy of the lease but what do they need to send me in order to prove the debt they are reporting? Also, would it be better to request validation from the apartment complex in this case? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms6073 Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Have you done a search on the Internet using keywords like tenant rights and the state in which you live?The fact is that as a tenant, you have rights during and after occupancy/residency. In most every state in the US, after the tenant vacates a property, the landlord is required to complete an inspection (you can video the property with a neighbor as a witness in lieu of landlords inspection) and then the landlord must present the former tenant(s), an itemized accounting of all applicable fees/penalties/service charges that are either due or payable. This does not mean that the landlord or property management company can simply send you a letter on company letterhead stating that you owe them $xx.xx amount - they must itemize all amounts line by line. Better yet, if the landlord fails to follow this process, then the landlord or property management company has basically given up any right to persue claim on any amounts due and should they continue to persue the matter, as in the situation you presented, then you as the former tenant are legaly entitled to sue for up to 3-times the disputed amount plus applicable legal fees. Now the laws in your state may be worded differently, but it seems to me that the next step is to contact a lawyer in order to have them draw up a demand letter that states your intentions to sue for up to 3-times the aforementioned damages (amount in colection) under the applicable state tenants rights statutes. The letter should inform the landlord/property management company of their failure to comply with state laws with regards to your rights as a tenant and if they do not want to reach a compromise, you will be more than happy to sue. In order to settle the matter, you can demand that they recall the debt from the CA in he next 10-days as well as present you with a statement of accounting indicating $0.00 dollars due in order to avoid repeat occurences. On the other hand, if you are feeling particularly inconvienenced, then just contact a lawyer and sue!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacykat Posted May 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Thanks! I searched the landlord/tenant act for my state, FL, and it states that they must send a certified letter within 30 days stating that they wish to keep the deposit, I never received such a letter. Also, I'm not sure what the laws are concerning them seeking additional money to the deposit but I was never notified of this either. I only found out about this collection when I did my yearly check on my report. If I may ask another question, I was going to request validation before obtaining a lawyer, should I demand proof that they sent me certified letters stating they were going to keep the deposit and seek additional damages...ie the certified letter reciepts with my signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbowspal Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 ms....please expound on this subject...I am in Calif. and have a doozy of a situation that we are about to do something about (sol is running out) Our LL also tried to pull this crap on us. Never returned the deposit....then when we called their attny. they said they sent us the letter, which they didn't, so we finally (three months later) get this letter that states $10,000 in damages etc.(no itemizing) to the property. which was SUCH! BS, the house was cleaner than when we moved in....I cleaned for two weeks!!!! we were smart enough to take pics and we were having so many problems with them, that the day before we moved out I had a "plain clothed" detective with the sheriffs dept. come out to the house and look around. I know I can supoena him to come to court if I have to. What do you know about California law. We are so pissed about this....ended up in the UD Registry etc. but we aren't sure which way to go....small claims just doesn't seem sufficient based upon the allegations and I'm not sure I'd really do a good enough job- the other alternative (Superior ct.) is going to be expensive....THIS HAS RUINED OUR LIVES! sorry for the rambling..any ideas??? :notsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 If the law requires only that they send via certified mail the letter; there wouldn't be a green card if they didn't have an address for you, or you refused to sign for the letter; however they would have to have the green and white certified mail receipt (and more than likely the returned envelope). Remember that usually they are only required to show that they mailed it, we are required to show that they received it.If it would be me, I would ask that their response for the validation to include, a) a copy of the signed lease, a copy of the letter which the landlord is required to mail under (cite statute), c) a copy of the certified mail receipt to show proof of mailing as required under (cite statute), d) a copy of the signed return receipt that was received by the landlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms6073 Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Almost everything you need to know is located here Chapter 83 LANDLORD AND TENANT RIGHTS Although I reviewed the statutes, I live in Texas and unlike Texas which specifies damages in the same sections, the State of Florida does not appear to specifically enumerate amounts for damages but they may be specified in another set of codes as there is several reference to section 475! In my opinion though, the law(s) that have been broken by the landlord/property management company are pretty clear in the matter you outlined! Excerpted: 83.49 Deposit money or advance rent; duty of landlord and tenant.-- This is the section that your former landlord has violated...(3)(a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim. The notice shall contain a statement in substantially the following form: This is a notice of my intention to impose a claim for damages in the amount of _____ upon your security deposit, due to _____. It is sent to you as required by s. 83.49(3), Florida Statutes. You are hereby notified that you must object in writing to this deduction from your security deposit within 15 days from the time you receive this notice or I will be authorized to deduct my claim from your security deposit. Your objection must be sent to (landlord's address) . If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit. ( Unless the tenant objects to the imposition of the landlord's claim or the amount thereof within 15 days after receipt of the landlord's notice of intention to impose a claim, the landlord may then deduct the amount of his or her claim and shall remit the balance of the deposit to the tenant within 30 days after the date of the notice of intention to impose a claim for damages. © If either party institutes an action in a court of competent jurisdiction to adjudicate the party's right to the security deposit, the prevailing party is entitled to receive his or her court costs plus a reasonable fee for his or her attorney. The court shall advance the cause on the calendar. (d) Compliance with this section by an individual or business entity authorized to conduct business in this state, including Florida-licensed real estate brokers and salespersons, shall constitute compliance with all other relevant Florida Statutes pertaining to security deposits held pursuant to a rental agreement or other landlord-tenant relationship. Enforcement personnel shall look solely to this section to determine compliance. This section prevails over any conflicting provisions in chapter 475 and in other sections of the Florida Statutes, and shall operate to permit licensed real estate brokers to disburse security deposits and deposit money without having to comply with the notice and settlement procedures contained in s. 475.25(1)(d). But here is the exception...(5) Except when otherwise provided by the terms of a written lease, any tenant who vacates or abandons the premises prior to the expiration of the term specified in the written lease, or any tenant who vacates or abandons premises which are the subject of a tenancy from week to week, month to month, quarter to quarter, or year to year, shall give at least 7 days' written notice by certified mail or personal delivery to the landlord prior to vacating or abandoning the premises which notice shall include the address where the tenant may be reached. Failure to give such notice shall relieve the landlord of the notice requirement of paragraph (3)(a) but shall not waive any right the tenant may have to the security deposit or any part of it. And here are the remedies under the Florida statues...83.48 Attorney's fees.--In any civil action brought to enforce the provisions of the rental agreement or this part, the party in whose favor a judgment or decree has been rendered may recover reasonable court costs, including attorney's fees, from the nonprevailing party. 83.54 Enforcement of rights and duties; civil action.--Any right or duty declared in this part is enforceable by civil action. 83.55 Right of action for damages.--If either the landlord or the tenant fails to comply with the requirements of the rental agreement or this part, the aggrieved party may recover the damages caused by the noncompliance. ...So, to sumarize, unless you got a notice via certified mail as outlined in 83.49 (3)(a), the landlord/property management conpany has forfieted claim and has sent the debt out to collections without legal standing. You dispute is with the landlord and they are the entity that obvioulsy can recall the debt. Although I do not think it is in your best interests to deal with the CA, you may want to consider disputing the debt and sending them a validation letter so as to throw a wrench into the works. Someone I work with had a similar problem and the lawyer that was engaged to handle that situation dealt only with the landlord/property management company and managed a pre-court settlement that included recalling the debt from the CA as well as a statement showing $0.00 dollar balance due! I would suggest that you contact a lawyer as soon as practical and either work towards resolution or sue!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbowspal Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 MS6073..... Please read my post, I would love to have your input. Thanks! Guess my question is....which way would you go?????[Edit by Rainbowspal on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 @ 08:33 AM] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms6073 Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 <blockquote>Originally posted by Rainbowspalms....please expound on this subject...I am in Calif. and have a doozy of a situation that we are about to do something about (sol is running out)</blockquote>Sounds to me like it is time for you to also bring in the lawyers as the California statutes specify court remedies as well as arbitration to try and resolve landlord/tenant disputes. This is excerpted from the California Department of Consumer AffairsUnder California law, within 21 days (three weeks) after you move, your landlord must either: (1) Send you a full refund of your security deposit, or Mail or personally deliver an itemized statement that lists the amounts of and reasons for any deductions from your security deposit, along with a refund of any amounts not deducted.146 (2) Send you a full refund of your security deposit, or Mail or personally deliver an itemized statement that lists the amounts of and reasons for any deductions from your security deposit, along with a refund of any amounts not deducted.146 What happens if the landlord doesn’t deliver or mail a full refund or the required statement of deductions within 21 days as required by law? According to a California Supreme Court ruling, the landlord loses the right to keep any of the security deposit and must return the entire deposit to you....Legal actions for obtaining refunds of security depositsSuppose that your landlord does not return your security deposit as required by law, or makes improper deductions from it. If you cannot successfully work out the problem with your landlord, you can file a lawsuit in small claims court for the amount of the security deposit plus court costs, and possibly also a penalty and interest, up to a maximum of $5,000. (If your claim is for a little more than $5,000, you can waive (give up) the extra amount and still use the small claims court.) For amounts greater than $5,000, you must file in superior court, and you ordinarily will need a lawyer in order to effectively pursue your case. In such a lawsuit, the landlord has the burden of proving that his or her deductions from your security deposit were reasonable.If you prove to the court that the landlord acted in "bad faith" in refusing to return your security deposit, the court can order the landlord to pay you the amount of the improperly withheld deposit, plus up to $600 as a "bad faith" penalty. The court has the option of awarding a bad faith penalty in addition to actual damages whenever the facts of the case warrant - even if the tenant has not requested the penalty.155 These additional amounts can also be recovered if a landlord who has purchased your building makes a "bad faith" demand for replacement of security deposits. The landlord has the burden of proving the authority upon which the demand for the security deposits was based.156Whether you can collect attorney’s fees in such a suit depends on what is stated in the lease or rental agreement. If attorney’s fees are provided for in the lease or rental agreement, you can claim such fees as part of the judgment, even if the rental agreement or lease stated that only the landlord could claim such fees.157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbowspal Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Thanks MS6073...for your post. Makes me feel a little bit better...should get on it soon!!!One more question please Can BF and I sue separately in small claims for this...we (obviously) are not married and both of us have been damaged separately???? just wondering...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms6073 Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 <blockquote>Originally posted by RainbowspalCan BF and I sue separately in small claims for this...we (obviously) are not married and both of us have been damaged separately???? just wondering...?</blockquote>Only the names that appear on the lease are actually being damaged. If both names where on the lease, then it seems obvious that both parties were damaged by the landlords or property owners actions. Although you definitely should seek the advice of counsel in the state of California as soon as possible, I would think that the two of you would be better served to seek joint relief in this instance.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacykat Posted May 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Thanks everyone! So, I'm thinking I have a good plan of attack now. I wrote the CA requesting validation in order to see exactly what their charge is. Once I receive it, I will send a letter to both the CA and OC stating that I was never notified and I am demanding proof that these notices were sent. Then, I'll take it from there, hopefully they won't have the proof and I can be rid of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 With respect to damages, they cannot deduct money from the deposit if it is considered normal wear and tear. One thing to look at would be to find out how old the carpet that was in there was. Then, the life expectancy of the carpet under normal wear and tear conditions. Perhaps consult the manufacturer for this. If the former is older than the latter then they really have no grounds irrespective of whether the other procedures were followed in accordance with applicable laws.The challenge would of course be finding out this specific information. Perhaps that burden could be placed on them to show that it was in excess of normal wear and tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingo Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 I'd aslo point out to the OP that the SOL has run out in Fl. for legal action on the part of the ca/apt complex and this crap should fall off your credit report in 04 so, be pretty aggressive and see what sort of violations you can rack up and see if you can sue them for FDCPA violations.Be sure you dispute this with the CRA's right now. If the CA doesn't mark the account in dispute you already have 1 violation. [Edit by bingo on Thursday, May 22, 2003 @ 12:50 PM] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacykat Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 I believe the deposit they kept ($300) was more than enough to replace the carpet as apt. complexes usually get good deals on that stuff and it wasn't high quality. I just disputed it with the CRA, it only shows up on my equifax report. I'm unsure of what you mean by "If the CA doesn't mark the account in dispute you already have 1 violation." I didn't request the CA to do so, do they have to automatically do this? How will I know if it's marked as disputed? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingo Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 If you demand validation, they must mark the account in dispute. You know by looking at your credit reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacykat Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Thanks a bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts