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Wolpoff & Abramson and Discover


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Hi all,

I just got a collection letter from scumbags extrodinaire, Wolpoff & Abramson. This is regarding an old Discover card account. (still within the SOL) I have done some research on these weasles and I am aware that they like to use binding arbitration to get awards and then turn the arbitration award into a local judgement.

Does anyone here know when Discover card put the arbitration clause into their credit agreement? I can't find my old contract. I have sent them a DV letter but I want to be prepared for these guys because I know they are bad news. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Oh, they are scumbags extrodinaire! They just won an arbitration against me. This is for MBNA. Now on some boards they say that after they get the award, they turn it over to a CA to collect on it. But I don't know how true it is. Arbitration is nothing but a kangaroo court where you give up all your rights. Check out some of the other boards for rejection letters. That's what I did. There is also some reference to them on this board if you go back a bit.

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Thanks raven,

Just wondering.....did your MBNA credit agreement have an arbitration clause in it when you signed it?

I'm thinking that maybe back in the early 1990's, Discover didn't have the arbitration clause in their credit agreement yet. That would mean that I never agreed to accept arbitration.

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Except that MBNA (who started this arbitration crap !) and all others are VERY sneaky about getting those arbitration clauses added in to your terms. Its not a matter of exclusion.. they send you those 'account terms have changed' notices and the slip in the arbitration clause. The ONLY way you stop it is to write them a letter REJECTING the arbitration clause. Guess what, when you reject their clause, they close the account immediately and send you a ' full balance now due' letter. So.. unless you specifically REJECTED the damned change in terms within the 30 days they usually give you, in writing, then it is assumed you DID AGREE to it !!

Its bull.. arbitration was NEVER meant for credit card accounts !!!

The good news, maybe, is that there IS case law AGAINST these damned arbitration agreements.. and it may help you to fight these vultures.

I'll have to find it... WhyChat posted it last month.

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Okay - I dont usually cross post from other boards but this seems relevant.

**disclaimor - the following contains a blatant commercial advertisement for services with which not only am I not affiliated, but have no first (or second hand) knowledge!

Posted by Freshstart100 at http://pub50.ezboard.com/fcreditwrenchfrm1.showMessage?topicID=667.topic

WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, ARBITRATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be very very carefull when it comes to arbitration. Wolpoff & Abramson LLP is 1 of the largest collections attorneys in the US with over 750 paralegals. I actually worked there for 12 months. Arbitration is very serious and is enforceable, 98% of the times Wolpoff & Abramson will forward the award to court and have it reverted to judgment. Arbitration is : A private dispute resolution mechanism that replaces judicial litigation. Both parties most agree to it in advance. Many consumer and commercial contracts now require mandatory arbitration instead of litigation. Basically a retired judge on senior attorney who has powers similar to a sitting jusge will conduct an arbitration hearing, when it concludes an award is issued , it can be dockted as a judgment in state court and enforced in the same manner and to the same extent as a judicially obtained judgment. It is very important that you seek someone who know how to answer the NAF complaint and also circuit court complaints. I have started a company to assist consumers against arbitration and other legal issues... WWW.Freshstart911.org . Please contact us so I can help you.. Again I am a former Paralegal with Wolpoff & Abramson and actually worked with MBNA in obtaining awards.

Michael

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Hi LadynRed,

I did find this:

"Court finds Discover Arbitration Clauses "Unconscionable" 22 April 2002

In a California appellate court, a consumer brought a class action against Discover (Morgan Stanley) for negligent misrepresentation as well as deceptive business practices in Szetela v. Discover Bank (118 Cal.Rptr.2d 862, Cal. App. 4 Dist., 2002). The bank argued that such legal issues needed to be dealt with solely through private arbitration. In a strong judgment for consumer protection, the court found that the arbitration clause was not only procedurally and substantively unconscionable, but that Discover's anti-class action provision was void under public policy."

From this site http://www.pirg.org/consumer/bankrupt/bankrupt2.htm#sears

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MBNA seems to be better-spirited these days, often preferring to just sell charged-off accounts as opposed to arbitrating. The bank is shifting emphasis to servicing their vast portfolio of performing accounts, maintaining customer satisfaction and generating profit.

Morgan Stanley, Discover on the other hand, has employed unscrupulous tactics from the get-go so this arbitration complaint is certainly no surprise. IMO, there are many better institutions to do business with, in fact most are, so why even bother with MS or Discover?

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I never signed an agreement, I applied over the internet, and stupidly I really never read the agreement. I guess because I never expected to get laid off from my job. As far as Discover I applied, also over the internet. I don't think that at that time they had an arbitration clause, or, believe me, W & A would be after me for arb on that one also.

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  • 3 weeks later...

MBNA bought up an old 1st Union CC account in my name that was bought from a bankrupted bank. After several years of harassing me the turned it over to Wolpoff & Abramson who is now sending letters to my lawyer. My lawyer had my case with another CC company (ID theft case) dismissed in court and does not represent me in any other case, so I told my lawyer to just deposit any letters from Wolpoff & Abramson in the round file and then send Wolpoff & Abramson a DV. The account is not mine and even after MBNA changed the account number from the changed account number that 1st Union they still have no signed agreement nor billing documents, statements, or anything else. This MBNA thing has been tossed from one Collect American scumbag outfit to the other for years. Maybe they will get the picture that the account is either not mine or an account in good standing that I closed over 20 years ago! At any rate my lawyer has not charged me anything for sending me their stupid threatening letters. Anyone else get this kind of treatment?

BTW, I have never had an account with 1st Union or MBNA or anyone connected with them. They must be a branch of tghe Mafia!

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Oh, they are scumbags extrodinaire! They just won an arbitration against me. This is for MBNA. Now on some boards they say that after they get the award, they turn it over to a CA to collect on it. But I don't know how true it is. Arbitration is nothing but a kangaroo court where you give up all your rights. Check out some of the other boards for rejection letters. That's what I did. There is also some reference to them on this board if you go back a bit.

If you are afraid of giving up your rights , do not use the credit cards and you will not have to worry about arbitration... And if you do have arbitration in your terms and agreements, pay your credit cards as agreed and do not let them charge off. and get to collections.. By doing this arbitration is a moot point..and should not be a problem...

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Oh, they are scumbags extrodinaire! They just won an arbitration against me. This is for MBNA. Now on some boards they say that after they get the award, they turn it over to a CA to collect on it. But I don't know how true it is. Arbitration is nothing but a kangaroo court where you give up all your rights. Check out some of the other boards for rejection letters. That's what I did. There is also some reference to them on this board if you go back a bit.

If you are afraid of giving up your rights , do not use the credit cards and you will not have to worry about arbitration... And if you do have arbitration in your terms and agreements, pay your credit cards as agreed and do not let them charge off. and get to collections.. By doing this arbitration is a moot point..and should not be a problem...

Wow rubyjean, brilliant post.

So, lets see if I have this straight:

Pay your bills. Is that what you are saying? Holy cow, you are the Albert Einstein of debt counseling! So tell me, does debt ever accumulate faster than the speed of light? And how is time affected by gravitational bodies moving through arbitration?

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Oh, they are scumbags extrodinaire! They just won an arbitration against me. This is for MBNA. Now on some boards they say that after they get the award, they turn it over to a CA to collect on it. But I don't know how true it is. Arbitration is nothing but a kangaroo court where you give up all your rights. Check out some of the other boards for rejection letters. That's what I did. There is also some reference to them on this board if you go back a bit.

If you are afraid of giving up your rights , do not use the credit cards and you will not have to worry about arbitration... And if you do have arbitration in your terms and agreements, pay your credit cards as agreed and do not let them charge off. and get to collections.. By doing this arbitration is a moot point..and should not be a problem...

Wow rubyjean,

So, lets see if I have this straight:

Pay your bills. Is that what you are saying? Holy cow, you are the Albert Einstein of debt counseling! So tell me, does debt ever accumulate faster than the speed of light? And how is time affected by gravitational bodies moving through arbitration?

The TRUTH hurts doesn't it.. Just telling it like it is

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Have to admit rubyjean that that is not very nice thing to say, especially in credit on mars's case of ID Theft... where signing one of these is a mute point. Most people don't willingly choose not to pay and go into collections are charge off.. too many problems to put a person down these days.

And many did miss the boat when these companies first started sending them out... cause they where nice to stick them into billing statements like advertisements.

Can't find it now, but it is in the Artical of the Week Forum, by Calawyer about arbitration... or least someone else that posted there.

Will check around and see...

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LOL at rubyjean. :)

The truth hurts huh? That's it?

Sheesh, and I thought you were the Albert Einstein of debt counseling. Oh well, I guess I can settle for "The truth hurts" and then build from there. Thanks so much for your sage advice and keen insight.

If you have any other gems of brillance like that please do share, won't you.

(I just can't wait) :)

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Binding arbitration was NEVER intended to be used for credit cards. NO ONE should have to give up rights to due process for ANY reason. MBNA started this arbitration crap and it HAS been successfully challenged in court. It should NOT be allowed to continue. Its a low-life, sneaky way to attempt to take awawy your rights - bigger cases that attempted to do so have been struck down.. and so should binding arbitration over a damn credit card debt. IF people were informed in a NORMAL typeface in PLAIN ENGLISH, not some minute text deeply buried in a mile-long credit agreement, and IF the full impact of the CONSEQUENCES of arbitration were known to the general 'least sophistcated consumer' , you could bet there would be a LOT of people saying 'no friggin' way, cram your card'. BUT, you don't get that, they sneak it in and say 'if you don't REJECT in writing, then you automatically agree and if you DO REJECT, then you can't have our credit card.

I can tell you, if, after my bankruptcy, ANY card I eventually apply for has an arbitration agreement in it, I will NOT take it and if any of them try to slip one in, I will cut up the card and tell 'em to shove it when I reject their terms.

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W&A also represent a debt buyer known as Great Seneca Financial Corporation. Bank One sells charged-off to Great Seneca, then Wolpoff & Abramson of Rockville, MD come a collecting! What is the possibilty of W&A winning an arbitration award for a debt buyer which presumably had no arbitration rights in the first place?

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What if they collect on an account from MBNA who bought it from another bank who bought it from another bank and so on that had never had an arbitration clause in the original agreement? In other words, if if anyone really needs this, the original agreement for the account is very old thta had no arbitration clause but maybe MNBA does in their bogus account. They change the account numbers for some reason.

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I'm thinking some of what may be happening here is that Wolpoff & Abramson (or whoever the sleazebag dejour happens to be) senses weakness or ignorance on the part of the victim (debtor) and moves very quickly into arbitration. They count on the victim not knowing what to do so they just bulldoze right through with the arbitration ruling and then they sell it. The new sleazebag debt owner then pushes it to a local judgement which is then converted into a lien or wage garnishment.

By the time the victim's head quits spinning, it's basically too late or there isn't enough money left for the victim to fight it. Trying to stop this freight train could be pretty expensive and most debtors in this situation can't come up with the money for attorney's fees.

If the debtor took this to a good attorney BEFORE the arbitration ruling was handed down, maybe this crap could be managed. But then the debtor is in a cash poor condition and the vultures of course, know this.

This crap is plain and simply the denial of due process and the circumvention of peoples rights and it flat out pisses me off. :x

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