They are auctioning off our debt!!

[123rich]

I found a website that has to do with auctions. There is a creditor on there that is auctioning consumer debts.

http://www.bid4assets.com/auction/index.cfm?AuctionID=71355&ct=catFeature

If I found it on here im sure its happening in other places.

[bw4444]

Correct. Debt is a huge market. Collection agencies make big money by buying debt for 2-3% of its face value and collecting big on it. What they can't collect, they sell again to some other agency. Your debt can get passed around like this for years.

[123rich]

lol does that mean that the same debt can be report on my credit report an infinate amount of times, depending on how many people bought my debt?

[kb9tbq]

Yes - definately they can. Really make a mess of your credit report.

[vincent]

What would be the best way to protect against this, espically when settling?

[kb9tbq]

I am not sure - there is a difference here between bought & asigned accounts.

If it is multiple collection agencies working asigned collection - then try to go back and settle with the OC with deal to retract the collection agencies from the case. They would all be deleted then.

If it is multiple collection agencies buying the debt, this is a problem. You will only be able to settle and delete the current one holding the debt.

Now if since than any of the other collection agencies have gone out of business. Than you can point this fact out to the CRA with request to delete the tradeline.

[rubyjean]

<blockquote>Originally posted by vincent

What would be the best way to protect against this, espically when settling?

</blockquote>

The Best way to Protect yourself against this happening to you.. would be to pay the original creditor before it is charged off and sold.. You had 180 days to pay on your debt.

[IronMan]

That's true RubyJean, but before you get on a soapbox of insensitivity here.....

You should consider the fact that sometimes due to unfortunate or unforseen economic conditions, people have been forced to take care of the family and home first and the charge-offs happen before they get back on their feet.

Even when people pay the minium payments they are treading water because of the interest sometimes. Only $ 3 or $4 go toward the principle out of the $20.00 payment, if that. So what good is it. That $20.00 buys food or pays the water bill or half of the electric bill.

How would you feel if you had been hurt or your company collapse and you were out of work for those 180 days before securing new employment? What would you do? Would you let your family starve or let the house foreclose just to pay the revolving credit debt? I don't think so.

So instead of posting such an impulsive, insensitive response, maybe most people that post here aren't really deadbeats. They were just in a compromising position at some time and now they're getting their lives back on track.

Yes, I agree that paying within the 180 days would avoid the trouble, but then again you, me nor any else really knows the whole story. I assume if they weren't legit they wouldn't care enough to be here in the first place to get back on track.

If you feel so strongly in your position, maybe you should consider being a member of some other website for the collection-friendly instead. This one is a consumer-friendly.

If you REALLY knew how the whole credit industry works to manipulate and keep everyone entwined you'd think twice about it.

[Edit by IronMan on Sunday, February 9, 2003 @ 09:57 PM]

[vincent]

Thank-you Ruby.

I bet you felt empowered when pressed "Post Reply".

[ghacorp]

While Ruby Jean is correct, old debt is auctioned-off and advertised as "charged-off credit card portfolios" and "uncollectible consumer debt" frequently in the Wall Street Journal, etc. If you hear from someone who has bought your debt on the cheap in hopes of collecting from you, send out a validation request. Some states have very lengthy SOL periods and investors try to cash in. Since the purchaser will not likely be able to validate with the OC the matter is on thin ice legally and you can probably safely inform them or your intentions, hang up, or request that they file suit against you. You will likely never hear back!

[rubyjean]

<blockquote>Originally posted by IronMan

That's true RubyJean, but before you get on a soapbox of insensitivity here.....

You should consider the fact that sometimes due to unfortunate or unforseen economic conditions, people have been forced to take care of the family and home first and the charge-offs happen before they get back on their feet.

Even when people pay the minium payments they are treading water because of the interest sometimes. Only $ 3 or $4 go toward the principle out of the $20.00 payment, if that. So what good is it. That $20.00 buys food or pays the water bill or half of the electric bill.

How would you feel if you had been hurt or your company collapse and you were out of work for those 180 days before securing new employment

What would you do? Would you let your family starve or let the house foreclose just to pay the revolving credit debt? I don't think so.

So instead of posting such an impulsive, insensitive response, maybe most people that post here aren't really deadbeats. They were just in a compromising position at some time and now they're getting their lives back on track.

Yes, I agree that paying within the 180 days would avoid the trouble, but then again you, me nor any else really knows the whole story. I assume if they weren't legit they wouldn't care enough to be here in the first place to get back on track.

If you feel so strongly in your position, maybe you should consider being a member of some other website for the collection-friendly instead. This one is a consumer-friendly.

If you REALLY knew how the whole credit industry works to manipulate and keep everyone entwined you'd think twice about it.

I do know how it works, I see it everyday.. I just answered the question with an honest answer, you have 180 days before the account is written off.. It is just the way that it works.. Used to be able sometimes to extend it to 210 days, but no more. I did not call anyone a deadbeat, ect.. Other than making a payment there is no way that you can avoid it being Charged off and sold to a Collection agency.. Next time , read it before you jump to conclusions,

[YaYa Chick]

Can an account get sold to other CA's even past the 7 year time frame?

I don't see how that's possible.

[kb9tbq]

Yes, there is a difference in the time for credit reporting (7 years) and the time a company has SOL for collecting a debt (which will differ state to state).

Example:

Illinois

Closed contracts (installment loans..) have a SOL of 10 years, so 3 years after the tradeline has expired off the credit report they can still be trying to collect or sell to another collection agency to collect.

Then say before the 10 years are up, a lawyer jumps in to file a judgment (20 years). Then this can be renewed at as they go along another 20 years. If they can they will just try to get a wage garnishment and collect finally on the debt.

There is no telling how may hands an account can go to before everything is said and done. It will only go the 10 years on the SOL, if no judgment is ever filed. Then it would be finished but for good. They may still try to collect, but won't have no rights after that point.

[IronMan]

The ending to your post -- ".. You had 180 days to pay on your debt" -- is what lit me up. Sounded a bit insensitive to me.

Your follow-up is understood, and my sicerest apologies to you.

I volunteer my time into the wee hours from hours and months of research and real-world experience to help where I can since I've been in the situation before and I am in-touch with some of the dilemmas here. Maybe I can be a bit over-sensitive at times, but I am after-all the CreditWarrior helping other rage CreditWar.

Cheers!

[Morgano]

Here's an Idea! If all of our debt is for sale on that website mentioned in the first post, then why don't we all set up a membership to the auction site and bid on our own debt! If we own our own debt, then we could control when it is to be paid, right? Buying debt on here would be cheaper than going through the negotiation process. Looks like debt buyers can buy the debt for less than 10% of the original balance. Try negotiating that percentage with a collector! Just an idea.....

[rubyjean]

<blockquote>Originally posted by IronMan

The ending to your post -- ".. You had 180 days to pay on your debt" -- is what lit me up. Sounded a bit insensitive to me.

Your follow-up is understood, and my sicerest apologies to you.

Iron Man,

Thanks for you post.. I would never say anything to hurt anyone.. Take care

RJ

I volunteer my time into the wee hours from hours and months of research and real-world experience to help where I can since I've been in the situation before and I am in-touch with some of the dilemmas here. Maybe I can be a bit over-sensitive at times, but I am after-all the CreditWarrior helping other rage CreditWar.

Cheers!

</blockquote>

[bw4444]

<blockquote>Originally posted by Morgano

Here's an Idea! If all of our debt is for sale on that website mentioned in the first post, then why don't we all set up a membership to the auction site and bid on our own debt! If we own our own debt, then we could control when it is to be paid, right? Buying debt on here would be cheaper than going through the negotiation process. Looks like debt buyers can buy the debt for less than 10% of the original balance. Try negotiating that percentage with a collector! Just an idea.....

</blockquote>

I had thought of that, too. So far, I couldn't see how to make it work. First, they sell debt in portfolios of $200K or more. So, you'd need at least $5-6K to do the deal. Secondly, you would have to be sure your debt was included in any particular portfolio. When you consider all the thousands of portfolios on the market, could be difficult.

But, how about if we started a co-op? Maybe we buy blocks of debt and anyone can buy their own debt from us for what we paid plus a little extra to keep the co-op going. The co-op could then delete the accounts at the CRA's. Could work. Needs some more thought.

[123rich]

<blockquote>Originally posted by bw4444

I had thought of that, too. So far, I couldn't see how to make it work. First, they sell debt in portfolios of $200K or more. So, you'd need at least $5-6K to do the deal. Secondly, you would have to be sure your debt was included in any particular portfolio. When you consider all the thousands of portfolios on the market, could be difficult.

But, how about if we started a co-op? Maybe we buy blocks of debt and anyone can buy their own debt from us for what we paid plus a little extra to keep the co-op going. The co-op could then delete the accounts at the CRA's. Could work. Needs some more thought.

</blockquote>

hmmmm let me know what you think.. Im all for it.

[IronMan]

For RJ

[Edit by IronMan on Thursday, February 13, 2003 @ 12:08 AM]

[IronMan]

The debt brokerage is a swell idea!!

Just need to find out if there's any motivation for them not to sell the debts to us. I'm going to start research on this.

The other question is how to subscribe to the CRA's and what the costs are. Is a point of presence required, ect. I know from past experience with TRW/Experian, (in the OLD days....80's-90's) they provided you a small modem-equipped terminal with thermal paper or you dialed in via modem from your PC and signed on that way. Don't know if it's changed much since then. Internet now? I'm going to check on that too.

The test account was John Q. Consumer and it printed out on that old blue/orange columned, tractor-feed computer paper on a dot matrix printer. I know that 95% of the car dealerships I've been to last few months all use dot matrix printer technology.

We could call it 2nd Chance Financial, but there's already a company that's called that and they're a debt consolidation service.

This would require some thought, but it could be done. It's just a matter of being able to float the debt until our investment gets paid, and like you said, a little kickback for the co-op going.

Let's get a new subject going on this in another area.

[bingo]

Here's the problem. Institutions sell debt in bundles. In some cases, $10's of millions of dollars at a time. They don't sell it individually.

[kb9tbq]

Yes - the debt is sold in mass amounts at a time - and they specifically find and solicite the collection companies to buy the debt. I have not seen any warehouse place to picking up debt.

A lot goes into setting up memebership - they can and will initiate a site inspection on your business. There are multiple securities put in place on this side. There are multiple access systems in place but everything is currently being herded over to electronic means. They word the contracts very specific on what the permissible purpose for accessing along with tagging you with a KOB code. The penilties are excessive for the business and the seller for not complying so if you go down - you take others having set you up down as well.

[Morgano]

Well, if we can set this up and take it down (ie bankruptcy), does that mean we can take the original creditors down with us??!? I know that we each have our own financial dilemna keeping us from having sufficient capital, but with a little bit from a lot of people, it could work. The main problem with that would be the fact that there would be too many stakeholders controlling the company vs. a few major stakeholders.

It's also true that it would be hard to get organized due to the fact that each person would have make sure that we (as a group) purchased the correct bundles of debt that had each member contained within the bundles. Otherwise it would be almost pointless.

At least it's fun to dream about ways to give the creditors a taste of their own medicine!! It would also be fun to steal their power and pull the rug right out from underneath them! They deserve it for their crooked marketing tactics and their mathematical interest/payment schemes that get consumers hooked on the whole credit game in the first place (much like tobacco companies hooking consumers into smoking).

[Anonymous]

I wonder, If they can sell our debts- why can't we sell them? I mean , here in Detroit there are a lot of homeless people who would have no problem taking a bad credit mark for 500$. It seems that first we inform them of the sale then have the new owner make a payment. If the check is cashed the firm has accepted responsibility.

that way, everybody is happy...except the CA

[Morgano]

Good suggestion debtinator! The only way we can win against the creditors' loan sharking schemes is to be (legally) creative and use their own tactics they use against us, against them! The tables must be turned!