Unsecured Debt/Small amount/Big fees and interest/Abusive CA

[Anonymous]

I had started this on another board and received some advice, that seems to be good, but this appearse to be a better forum for my situation, and maybe, hopefully more of my questions and concerns can be addressed here.

If most of the best minds read all of the lists, and this s redundant to everyone, I am sorry.

I have a small unsecured debt, around $400.00 that due to things beyond control has fallen way way behind, 7 or 8 months. It has now been "Charged Off" I am told, turned over to a collections agency that is VERY VERY abusive, the debt has nearly trippled in fees and interest, they are calling daily, insulting, making fun of, abusing, basically doing everything they can, likely teetering the fine line of the law, trying to shame me into immediate payment.

At this point, since interest and fees are snownballing every minute, I have and hey refuse to provide a statement itemizing what makes up the nearly $1100.00. It is my guess, I am no expert, but that this is because, if itemized, nearly no one would pay.

I have been advised on this board, and plan to send a S&D letter registered Tuesday. I also have every intention of requesting a "Validation" although if I am not misunderstanding it sounds like this is contesting whether the debt is actually mine, I know it is, I just CANT quickly pay 1100, although in a reasonable amount of time I could pay the actuall balance, Plus a reasonable amount of interest and fees, for carrying the debt for the time they have, just not tripple.

So, my questions. I send the S&D, The request for Validation, stop talking to them over the phone, what happens next? What grounds do they have? How likely would they be to actually pursue this amount as apposed to settling for half? What should I expect next?

ANy and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[tange1]

It is a never a good idea to deal with a CA over the phone because they will try to stress & intimidate you.You should send the cease and desist letter ASAP so they will stop the harrasing you over the phone.You absolutely wanna send a validation letter to them to make them prove to you it's your debt.Now in the event they do validate the debt is yours they may or may not be inclined to try to work something out.By the way if that happens make sure you deal with them in writing only!!and if you have to settle(worse case scenario)settle for deletion only.After you send the certified letter(s) and receive back your receipts just keep track of the violations(phone calls after letter received)and that will give you some future bargaining power if needed in the event you get some violations on them.

Good Luck

[LadynRed]

Walking the line ??? Sounds to me like they have already stepped WAAAAAAYYYYYY OVER the line of legality ! They are thumbing their nose at the Abuse portion of the FDCPA !! If you haven't read it, you shoud, see Section 806 on Abuse and Harrassment. You already HAVE violations - log them, better yet, tape them.

[Anonymous]

OK. The validation and Cease and Dec letter(s) will be in the mail tomorrow. Can I put both in One letter?

Is there a web site I can find the laws refered to (And an ENGLISH v LEGAL version?)

Taping them, is there a place I can find the laws on THAT?? I know it varies by state, they in Minn, me in Ohio?

[bingo]

You can find the FDCPA and the FCRA at www.ftc.gov

[retmar]

The way I sent mine included all in the same letter. I also understand that a DV also serves as a C&D. Either way, put both in same. DO WHAT LADYNRED SAYS. You can check your state laws as to recording. Another thing you can do is let them get your answering machine and hopefully hang themselves. In other words, do all you can to show their harrassment. Remember, even if you are liable for the debt, violation of the FDCPA & FCRA is not allowed. PERIOD.

[bw4444]

You can find links to the FCRA and the FDCPA at the top of this page.

Here's a link to information about state-by-state tape recording laws: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

[LadynRed]

I realize that legalese can be tough to read thru, but the FDCPA isn't all that hard to understand as its presented at the FTC site.

If you want another look at the FDCPA, try this lawyer's presentation:

http://www.pennlawyer.com/fdcpa.htm

As for taping, MN is a ONE PARTY state, meaning you don't need their consent to tape them. Here's a site to check on the taping laws: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

BW4444 -- seems we use similar sources :upsidown:

[Edit by LadynRed on Monday, February 17, 2003 @ 03:00 PM]

[Anonymous]

They just caled again(An hour ago). They are trying a new approach/threat. They have "Assigned" the debt to a new agent, a "kinder, gentler one" who was assigned the account as "Payment was refused" . . . I talked little and said less. The threat was that the account is "Scheduled to be returned to the original lender and that they wanted to offer us this last chance to make payment as once it is returned to the original lender, they indicated that negotiation would be les likely.

I know that you folks told me to not talk, I really didn't, I listened until they attempted to argue, THEN I hung up. They did try to set up an agreement, for roughly 90% of the inflated debt (Still $950 or so of $1100 which began as $350-400 in actual purchases) I did mention that I was waiting for a validation I had requested (Un registered, I requested it before I found you folks) they said I was beyond allowed period to get one. They then go on and on about requesting one at this time when statements were sent X Y Z . . .

Thought I would share. If anyone has any more insight on the new stuff in the call,

Thanks.

[retmar]

LIARS! LIARS! LIARS! You now have them on a violation. At no time are you NOT allowed to request validation (see FDCPA 809 (all)). You can also go to findlaw.com and look for Brady v Credit Recovery in regards to oral request for validation. If they denied getting your letter, then, remind them of the phone call you just received. Hopefully, you wrote everything down, DIDN'T YOU? Do you know what the word "CLICK" means? The sound of your phone hanging up.

[IronMan]

That's right!! Stick em'!!!

Sounds like debt padding to me too.

If the original creditor sold the debt off, the CA probably can't file anything in court anyway. It's unenforcable now if they own it and your state law says so. (look for Assignees in state law or rules of court). If such is the case, tell them to F-off.

First thing you need to do is document all times and dates of calls and the substance of each call. If you can tape legally, then do it! Make sure you append the end of each call with the time and date. You can also file a police report and notify telephone company of harrassing phone calls. If your telco doesn't need the police report, then notify the investigations department of the telco. That way all calls will be stored made or received at your number. This will be your extra ammo to sue for damages!

Pile up a few calls for a couple of weeks, file an order to produce document or have telco present with the evidence at court if they won't send it to you, then sue the CA! In Superior Court as a limited civil action! Don't do Small Claims!! It's a waste of time.

You can claim valid damages (emotional distress, fear, etc) and the court could tack on punitives as the court deems reasonable. You'll have plenty of evidence to prove their WILLFUL and NEGLIGENT VIOLATIONS!!!

Check your state's laws and see if there's anything in it regarding credit reporting or debt collections too. That'll help for sure.

Cheers!

[Edit by IronMan on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 @ 12:45 AM]

[Anonymous]

In truth they never said I COULD NOT receive a validation. They did tell me that I would not get one, that they could not provide me with one because it was turned over to them basically as an AMOUNT. That the original creditor would have to be contacted for a validation and they would not talk to me as it was charged off by them and if I did try to call the OC I would likely be automatically rerouted to these folks. But upon mentioning that I had requested a validation, it is insisted that "Why are you asking for one now? What about the statements you were receiving? where was all this way back . . . . . " I am sure I am not the first to have heard all this.

Registered requests for Validation and Cease and D. are going out in todays mail. I was told last week that I was "Wishing on a star" in waiting for a validation. That the reason I had not received one after sending an unregistered one (before I found you folks). was because I was not going to get one!!

So, what should I expect once they receive my letters? I am sure they have other underhanded strategies!

[LadynRed]

As Retmar says -- LIARS !!!!! They LIE like rugs !

<blockquote>They did tell me that I would not get one, that they could not provide me with one because it was turned over to them basically as an AMOUNT. That the original creditor would have to be contacted for a validation and they would not talk to me as it was charged off by them and if I did try to call the OC I would likely be automatically rerouted to these folks.</blockquote>

The FDCPA Section 809 SPECIFICALLY states:

"( If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector."

THEY are SUPPOSED to get the validation FROM THE OC !!

Their own admission that they cannot validate is quite telling. YOU don't have to call the creditor for proof of the debt, THEY do.

[bingo]

Hey Ladynred,

Would you mind looking at my last post to laurie down below and see if that's remotely on the right track?

[bw4444]

<blockquote>

THEY are SUPPOSED to get the validation FROM THE OC !!

Their own admission that they cannot validate is quite telling. YOU don't have to call the creditor for proof of the debt, THEY do.

</blockquote>

You might also think of it this way: anyone can call you up and say you owe them. What if they got your account number & balance from the trash & are calling you? Among other things, validation is how they prove to you that they are authorized to collect a debt.

BTW, some agreements between OC and CA prohibit the CA from contacting the OC about the account. The CA is trying to snow you because they are stuck.......& you are free!

[IronMan]

Yes, the burden of proof is on the CA to prove without REASONABLE DOUBT their claim.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

So, to make sure I understand this correctly. I should sit back and wait for the receipt of the registered letter. Record my line, but say nothing, and let them hang themselves?

Once they have recieved the C&D Registered knowing I have proof of receipt, as well as validation request, same (Put them in the same envelope) What should I EXPECT next? I am sure they have a counter game. These worms seem to hungery to die easily.

[retmar]

There is no need to send it registered. All you need is to send it certified mail w/ return receipt. Go to the Post Office. There are two forms (green in color). They are usually on a table or counter in small compartments.Their form numbers are PS Form 3800 & PS Form 3811. Fill out the necessary info and take to counter. Do not apply to your letter, let them do it. If your letter is not too thick or bulky, it will cost you $4.42 including stamp.

As to your other question, it's hard to say. So, while waiting, check into and follow all of the info posted by the others so you can be prepared for anything.