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7 year reporting time limit


C Whitney
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The debt first went delinquent in April of 1997. The original creditor is reporting the last date of activity as 7/1997. Does this fall under the old ruling for the start of the 7 year reporting period as stated in the letter of opinion from the FTC to Ms Amason? " Section 605© states that this section shall apply only to items of information added to the CRA file on or after 455 days after the enactment, or December 29, 1997. etc. On the other hand a chargeoff reported before that date is not covered by the new provisions. If a credit account was reported as a charge off before that date, the Commissioners view has been that it can be reported for seven years from the date the creditor actually charged it off.

How can I determined when this debt was charged off? Would it be on the last date of activity reported by the original creditor? Can it possibly be a date later than December 29 1997? No, it would have to have been reported as a charge off before that date to fall under the old rules for reporting, right?So the shortest period of time this debt has been reported as charge off would be 6 years on December 28, 2003 or 6 years on July 2003 depending on when the original creditor reported it as a charge off. Also can both the original creditor and the CA both report the same debt at the same time with the same balance overdue? Looks like it is two accounts. The only difference is the CA has re-aged the debt, showing a last date of activity of 7/2000, 3 years later than the original creditor. There has been no payment or communication on this debt since 4/1997. SOL expired in 2002. Do I have to make referrence to this every time I write to the CA? :confused:

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<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

How can I determined when this debt was charged off? Would it be on the last date of activity reported by the original creditor? Can it possibly be a date later than December 29 1997? No, it would have to have been reported as a charge off before that date to fall under the old rules for reporting, right?

</blockquote>

Accounts placed before this date will go by the time the account was actually charged off by the creditor. You are correct. Although this may wary for different creditors, they MUST charge off an account after 180 days of non-payment (120 for closed-ended accounts) according to the FDIC. In essence, whether it goes by the pre or post 97 date is really not a big deal as the 180 days apply to the post 97 anyway. The way you'l luck out is if the creditor would charge it off prior to 180 days.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

Also can both the original creditor and the CA both report the same debt at the same time with the same balance overdue? Looks like it is two accounts.

</blockquote>

Yes, there are 2 sections to your reports, one for credit information (OC's) and one for collections (CA's)

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

The only difference is the CA has re-aged the debt, showing a last date of activity of 7/2000, 3 years later than the original creditor.

</blockquote>

What report is this on? Can this date possibly be when the CA took over the account? If it is re-aged, it's completely illegal.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

There has been no payment or communication on this debt since 4/1997. SOL expired in 2002. Do I have to make referrence to this every time I write to the CA? :confused:

</blockquote>

ABSOULTELY NOT. Why would you admit to this debt being yours? It is their job to prove this claim, if you state the above, you are in essence admitting ownership of it.

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You say that there are two parts to my credit report and I can see that. The collection accounts are there and then the accounts like my car loan and credit cards. This CA Ameristar Financial Servicing Company has placed this in the part with my creditors not in the collection part. It appears the same as the original loan. The same date opened, 2/1997 the same original balance of $17,819 and the same balance due of $6941 the only difference as I said before is the last date of activity is different. The original creditor is reporting a date of last activity of 7/1997 and Ameristar is reporting 7/2000. Experian, which is the only CRA that provided me with the first date Ameristar reported the debt said it was in July of 2002. I have a copy of a merged credit report pulled on April 19, 2002 that does not show anything from Ameristar Financial on it so I believe Experian is correct and Ameristar didn't aquire this debt until then, which is after the SOL had expired in my state. If Ameristar never lent me any money can they report this in the part of my credit report where the creditors report? And regardless of all of it can they change that date of last activity if there has been no communication between me and either the original creditor or Ameristar? How do I get rid of this obnoxious company? Will i have to sue them?

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<blockquote>Originally posted by Swede

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

Can the CA change the last date of activity from the date reported by the OC to the date they bought the debt? :confused:

</blockquote>

No

</blockquote>

If the CA does re-age, what can you do?

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So when they changed this date from 7/1997 to 7/2000 that is a violation. Besides the debt having an expired SOL. I am trying to get this all sorted out. This bottom feeding company is causing me alot of problems. I'm thinking of suing but not sure where to start. You, Swede and this board have been very helpful. Just having you as a sounding board has been great. The Dept. of Financial Services for the state of Florida has requested that I file a formal complaint against Ameristar. This complaint would only cover violations of Florida Statue 559.72 which would only cover their threat to sue on a debt they knew they couldn't and the fact they are not licensed in Florida or registered with the state. The dept says any other violations of state or Federal law I must take to an other attorney. Do you think it is a good idea to file the complaint with the state? Thanks for your help! :D

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Yes, any ideas on what I can do about the re-aging of this debt? When I disputed this with Equifax back in Dec. 2002 just after I learned it was on my CR. Equifax sent letter that they had verified the last date of activity as correctly reported by the CA and further stated "additional information has been provided from the original source regarding this item." Is the "original source" the OC or is it Ameristar the CA? There can be no proof of a later date of last activity because I neither heard from anyone or spoke with anyone regarding this item since april of 1997. Any information you can help me with is much appreciated. CA is Ameristar Financial Servicing Company , Libertyville IL Anyone ever heard of them? :rolleyes:

[Edit by C Whitney on Wednesday, April 9, 2003 @ 09:27 PM]

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Ok lots of questions, I'm trying to read thru them but I really need to get an understanding of what you've done so far. I know you've disputed it, but have you send the DV to the CA? If you can list the chain of events that would be helpful.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

If Ameristar never lent me any money can they report this in the part of my credit report where the creditors report?

</blockquote>

No, it should not be in the creditor section unless they purchased the account from the OC in GOOD standing before the delinquency. If so, the OC should remove it's listing otherwise it's a duplicate. If assigned/purchased while delinquent, it should be in the "collections section".

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

And regardless of all of it can they change that date of last activity if there has been no communication between me and either the original creditor or Ameristar?

</blockquote>

No

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

How do I get rid of this obnoxious company? Will i have to sue them?

</blockquote>

You might have to in the end but I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Build your case, create papertrail, ask them to prove it, file complaints, give them a shovel to help them dig their own grave.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

So when they changed this date from 7/1997 to 7/2000 that is a violation.

</blockquote>

Maybe but it could be EQ. EQ uses the "date of last activity" as a timer for the 7 years. If, on the other reports, the "clock" is consistent with the time the account really went delinquent, it may be EQ that's the perpetrator here. You'll have to call TU to get the date on which accounts are due to fall off and EX lists it on their reports. What are they stating?

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

Besides the debt having an expired SOL. I am trying to get this all sorted out.

</blockquote>

The SOL has nothing to do with reporting and they can technically still take you to court, it is the defendants responsibility to bring up the SOL defense. Many of these scumbags are hoping that consumers aren't educated enough to know about SOL and will sue in hopes of them not bringing it up.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

You, Swede and this board have been very helpful. Just having you as a sounding board has been great.

</blockquote>

Thank you :blush:

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

The Dept. of Financial Services for the state of Florida has requested that I file a formal complaint against Ameristar. This complaint would only cover violations of Florida Statue 559.72 which would only cover their threat to sue on a debt they knew they couldn't and the fact they are not licensed in Florida or registered with the state.

</blockquote>

Need information on what you've done so far but definately go ahead and start filing complaints if they keep ignoring your demands and violate the laws. There's an exemption for out-of-state collection agencies in the state of FL for licencing requirements- make sure they're not covered by that. In your DV letters, you should ask them to provide you with their licencing number- this will show them that you know what the hell you're talking about and might scare them off.

<blockquote>Originally posted by C Whitney

The dept says any other violations of state or Federal law I must take to an other attorney.

</blockquote>

You don't need an attorney if you take them to small claims court.

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You are being very paitient with me, thank you. I will try to give you an idea of the chain of events.

1. First found Ameristar (the CA) on my credit report in Nov 2002. with LDA of 7/2000 being reported. Disputed with CA.They did not respond except to place it on my file twice.

2. It appears that due to inquiry the CA felt it necessary to report the item twice on my report. (in the section where creditors appear.) They acquired this debt either by purchasing or assignment long after it went delinquent in 4/1997) I disputed the duplicate items and EQ removed one. Oh Boy :rolleyes:

3. Disputed LDA with EQ in Dec 2002. Jan 2003 received letter from EQ stating LDA is being reported correctly by CA. Item stll appears on CR in the bottom part with other creditors both from the CA and the OC.

4.Mar 2003 Sent dispute letters to all 3 CRAs disputing LDA. First letter from TU states the items reported by OC and CA though similar are not the same. Second letter states CA reporting correctly deleted OC, Experian said I didn't include enough proof of identity for them to investigate.( I then filed an online dispute with EX) EQ still hasn't responded. Those two (EQ & EX are still under investigation.)

5. Sent complaints to the BBB in Illnois and also the Finance Commission in that state. In reply I received a form letter from CA stating and I quote "Five days ago we sent you a letter offering you the opportunity to pay off the balance owing on your account. Your account #xxxxxxx has been seriously delinquent for some time now and we are taking into consideration legal action. However, before proceeding we are making this one last attempt to arrange for payment of this debt.Your loan balance is $ 6941.29 with $ 6941.29 being in arrears. Legal action will increase this amount and entry of a judgment against you will give us other means to collect. We will approve no action against you in court until (7) seven days from the date of this letter. We hope you will respond to this final appeal and settle this obligation. The reason any further action on our behalf would be necessary is your own indifference - not because my company did not give you ample time." The letter is signed by a Derek Booker at Ameristar Financial Company (although the name on the letterhead is Ameristar Financial SERVICING Company)This is a form letter with the amount of the debt and the account number typed in.

This is the ONLY letter I had ever received from the CA up to this point. There was no letter 5 days prior nothing ever. Although they certainly had my address if they are reporting to the CRA.

6. Sent DV letter to CA. Disputing the debt and asking for written proof that I owed their company money. That I had ever agreed to pay them money and written proof that THEY had a legal right to collect any money from me. They responded quickly. (could be they are accustomed to dealing with these letters). Sent me a copy of the signature page from a contract that was assigned to the OC in 2/1997. This only proves they have a copy of at least part of the contract.

7. April 8,2003 sent another DV to the CA stating that validation was not acceptable as proof I owed them and they had any legal right to collect any money from me. I had requested in the original DV written proof that the CA had a legal right to collect any money from me, written proof that I had agreed to pay them any money and proof of how they acquired the copy of the contract they sent me. Informed them that if the alleged debt they were trying to collect is the same as the one they sent the signature page from the contract then they need to prove in writing that they have a legal right to that alleged debt and that they have written proof of a later LDA on this alleged debt, also that if indeed they were trying to collect a debt that I may or may not have owed another company the SOL had long expired and if they or the OC decided to pursue legal action I would respond with the "expired statute of limitations" defense. Also reminded them of their violation of my rights under both the FDCPA and the FCRA. Requested proof that they were licensed or even registered with the state of Florida (they aren't, I checked with the state and state says no they aren't and yes they need to be. That's why the state wants me to file a complaint agaist them). Sent letter again CCRRR as all other correspondance with CA.

8. Sent letter to EQ again disputing LDA. Included with letter copies of letter of opinion from FTC stating 7 years starts at last delinquency plus 180 days. If this is same debt as one from OC, Nal Accept. then CA has indeed changed LDA... blah blah blah. I have also checked with other 2 CRAs they too are reporting same as EQ. Should I send them another letter also?

Whew...!! :D I've been busy!!!

I don't know if I did this right wish I knew about you guys at the start. Maybe I shouldn't have written the CA about the SOL but they did send the signature page from the OC and I thought it best to try to stop any lawsuit from being filed. Questions;

1. What if anything should I do about them reporting this as if they are a creditor rather than a CA? As far as I can determine they acquired this debt either thru purchase or assignment in June or July 2002. My bet is on purchase but it might be assignment either way they were had by the OC a Florida based company who had to know the SOL had already expired. That's how delinquent the debt was! :eek:

2. TU has deleted the OC and left the CA on my report. Should I do anything more with them at this time?

3. Experian is the only CRA that shows me the date this was first reported by the CA (7/2002), is there any way to force the other 2 CRAs to give me that info. All reps say they don't have it.

4. Should I try to get any info from the OC as they are still on my CR although the last report date is 8/2000.

5.The CA is reporting a date opened of 2/1997 should I dispute this as i never opened an account with them and if they did acquire an old debt it certainly wasn't in 1997?

6. Where do I go from here? :confused:

Thanks for your help. ;)

[Edit by C Whitney on Thursday, April 10, 2003 @ 07:32 PM]

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