Need help with a CA

[shay30]

I was on a payment plan back in the spring with a CA collecting for Providian, I was to make 3 payments of 125 a month using a check by phone system. At the time I made arrangements, I expressed that I was a little uncomfortable giving them my banking info via phone and having 3 post-dated checks considering I was working pt and my finances were not good. I was told I had to do this to avoid legal action (balance is 5300 now though my credit limit was 4200- the extra 1100 is in fees).

Anyway first month, I have 125, the first check clears, second month, no money and by the time I know I won't have the money its too late to stop the post-dated check so it bounces.

I didn't hear from the CA afterwards no calls, no letters. Anyway 2 weeks ago I start getting calls on my cell, my husband's cell as well as my home number. The collector is a really butthole, he has left full detailed messages on my cell phone vm stating that I bounced a check, legal action, blah blah. I have yet to talk to this guy because frankly I don't have 5300 to pay. I just sent a C & D letter to stop the calls but am a little concerned about what I should do next.

I had been contemplating BK but after pulling my all 3 CBR's I am contemplating validation on some accounts and have made some arrangements with 4 of my creditors (they are still the OC). But I am nervous about legal action, I work as a substitute teacher and am in grad school so its not like I am rolling in the money, I have no assets, the car is in hubbys name and we rent.

Should I call the CA and try to set up a payment plan, validate, or ignore them. I know the debt is mine though I take issue with the balance since its not like I charged 1100 over the limit, its all in fees. I also feel the required use of a post-dated check over the phone is a scam since now its gone from me just owing the money to Providian to now a bounced check. I mean asking a broke person who is 20,000 in debt to promise to pay money they don't even know if they will have in several months seems like a major scam.

I would appereciate any and all advice.

[Da_Bill_Collector]

I will tell you from my experience about the post dated check. Frankly it doesn't really matter if you pay using money-order, mail-in, western union etc. The reason why we stress postdated check is so we can show our client money is "defintely" coming in. And of course, we get credit for setting up.

FDCPA requires CA to send you a reminder notice 7 to 10 days prior to money being debited. In your case, looks like you can't afford to pay $125/month. And BTW, out of $125, maybe half of it is probably going towards principle.

Ask yourself if you really can afford paying on this debt. Even if you had the card not closed, you'd have taken 10+ years to get this debt paid off anyway. That is if you didn't charge single penny on it. Other option is simply not pay anything for next 7 months or so and let it charge off, which should be avoided if possible.

Only you can decide what you want to do. If you do intend to pay, like you have mentioned, then your goal should be to bring the balance below the credit limit first. I am sure you can do it. I see many people become debt free. Sure it takes time though. Good luck.

[shay30]

The account is already charged off, it was charged off late last year, I stopped making payments April 2002. The CA started making contact with me spring of this year.

To be honest I really can't afford to pay it- as a substitute teacher I make very little money. (3 days of work is less than $200 a week) On the other hand, I am trying to get my financial house in order and while most of my creditors have been willing to work with me, Providian has not since day one. I called them before I stopped paying to explain I was having a hard time and did they hardship plans so that I didn't default on the account. I was told to call after I missed a payment and from there it got worse. In a short time I saw the miniumn payments shoot up as well as my balance. It wasn't until I got on line and found this site along with others that I even understood what was going on with the account.

I am just at a point where I am tired of the calls, letters, etc and while BK is really an attractive alternative considering that I have 20k in cc debt and close to 40K in student loan debt and nowhere near enough money to pay, if I can work it out I want to try.

[Da_Bill_Collector]

If the acount is already charged-off, the best bet would be to try to settle the account. I am in the same situation myself. Don't stress yourself for things you can't achieve. $20k of unsecured debt can be manageable only if your income exceeds $40k/year.

I have seen settlements of as low as 25% offered for charged-off accounts. Always get the terms in writing though.

[nolo]

I was on a payment plan back in the spring with a CA collecting for Providian, I was to make 3 payments of 125 a month using a check by phone system. At the time I made arrangements, I expressed that I was a little uncomfortable giving them my banking info via phone and having 3 post-dated checks considering I was working pt and my finances were not good. I was told I had to do this to avoid legal action (balance is 5300 now though my credit limit was 4200- the extra 1100 is in fees).

Anyway first month, I have 125, the first check clears, second month, no money and by the time I know I won't have the money its too late to stop the post-dated check so it bounces.

I didn't hear from the CA afterwards no calls, no letters. Anyway 2 weeks ago I start getting calls on my cell, my husband's cell as well as my home number. The collector is a really butthole, he has left full detailed messages on my cell phone vm stating that I bounced a check, legal action, blah blah. I have yet to talk to this guy because frankly I don't have 5300 to pay. I just sent a C & D letter to stop the calls but am a little concerned about what I should do next.

I had been contemplating BK but after pulling my all 3 CBR's I am contemplating validation on some accounts and have made some arrangements with 4 of my creditors (they are still the OC). But I am nervous about legal action, I work as a substitute teacher and am in grad school so its not like I am rolling in the money, I have no assets, the car is in hubbys name and we rent.

Should I call the CA and try to set up a payment plan, validate, or ignore them. I know the debt is mine though I take issue with the balance since its not like I charged 1100 over the limit, its all in fees. I also feel the required use of a post-dated check over the phone is a scam since now its gone from me just owing the money to Providian to now a bounced check. I mean asking a broke person who is 20,000 in debt to promise to pay money they don't even know if they will have in several months seems like a major scam.

I would appereciate any and all advice.

shay30, I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you.

Here is what the FDCPA actually says about post dated checks.

§ 808. Unfair practices [15 USC 1692f]

A debt collector may not use unfair or unconscionable means to collect or attempt to collect any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law.

(2) The acceptance by a debt collector from any person of a check or other payment instrument postdated by more than five days unless such person is notified in writing of the debt collector's intent to deposit such check or instrument not more than ten nor less than three business days prior to such deposit.

(3) The solicitation by a debt collector of any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument for the purpose of threatening or instituting criminal prosecution.

(4) Depositing or threatening to deposit any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument prior to the date on such check or instrument.

(5) Causing charges to be made to any person for communications by concealment of the true propose of the communication. Such charges include, but are not limited to, collect telephone calls and telegram fees.

(6) Taking or threatening to take any nonjudicial action to effect dispossession or disablement of property if --

(A) there is no present right to possession of the property claimed as collateral through an enforceable security interest;

( there is no present intention to take possession of the property; or

© the property is exempt by law from such dispossession or disablement.

(7) Communicating with a consumer regarding a debt by post card.

8 - Using any language or symbol, other than the debt collector's address, on any envelope when communicating with a consumer by use of the mails or by telegram, except that a debt collector may use his business name if such name does not indicate that he is in the debt collection business.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop paying, send them a limited C&D notice (stop the phone calls but allow written communication) don't talk to them an the phone anymore.

Get your checking account under control. If you have to close it and open a new one, do it. Never give a debt collector access to your checking account, and never give them post dated checks, no matter what they tell you. Start communicating in writing only. Make any payment agreements in writing including how the debt will be reported or deleted after you pay. Keep track of any FDCPA violations in case you sue or counter sue at a later date. Also, you might want to get some legal advice.

Use what money you have wisely and don't let yourself be victimized by these scumbags.

[shay30]

Thanks so much!

I did receive a letter about 7 days before the postdated check was to be deposited. Actually the check was scheduled to be deposited on 4/18 and the letter is dated 4/8 though I did not receive it on 4/8.

When I gave them the post-dated check it was with an individual account I have back where I used to live that I kept open but kept literally just a few dollars in it. I never give out my real account that I pay bills out of because I am paranoid about CA's taking money out.

Like I said I did send C& D letter out, I checked the USPS website and it was delivered Friday, I had no calls yesterday for the first time in 2 weeks.

I have been on this site for hours today and after reading I think my next step will be validation rather than going for a settlement. At least at this point.

[shay30]

Bump.

[sisflomi]

Shay,

If you ignore this, they might just sue you. If it comes to that, you can always file bk, and get any garnishments or things like that stopped.

What state are you in shay? Let me see if I can find some good bk info for you and you can weigh your pros and cons.

[shay30]

I am in Maine.

[sisflomi]

Here you go, read up on the laws here

http://www.mainebankruptcy.com/

[mrsmo914]

Shay, I don't know if it is in the fdcpa or just my state laws regarding collection agencies, but you may want to check if it is legal for them to call you on your cell phone because then you pay for the call. My state statutes say they cannot contact you in a way that costs you money for the call. One more way to nail them if you can.

[nativechild48]

Read NOLO's Post:

§ 808. Unfair practices [15 USC 1692f]

A debt collector may not use unfair or unconscionable means to collect or attempt to collect any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law.

(2) The acceptance by a debt collector from any person of a check or other payment instrument postdated by more than five days unless such person is notified in writing of the debt collector's intent to deposit such check or instrument not more than ten nor less than three business days prior to such deposit.

(3) The solicitation by a debt collector of any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument for the purpose of threatening or instituting criminal prosecution.

(4) Depositing or threatening to deposit any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument prior to the date on such check or instrument.

(5) Causing charges to be made to any person for communications by concealment of the true propose of the communication. Such charges include, but are not limited to, collect telephone calls and telegram fees.

[shay30]

Actually I was just thinking about the cell phone calls today. The collector was calling my cell phone several times a day. He would leave a message but then call 3-4 times a day with no message left. I started just keeping the phone off, also he was doing the same thing at my house. I was trying to figure out if this was indeed a violation since him calling on my cell defintely is a cost to me.

I definitely know this joker got the C & D letter, as I had no calls today (also USPS said the letter was delivered) , it was nice. I just printed up a validation letter. I must admit while in some ways this process is nerve wracking its also liberating to challenge these losers.

BK, is definitely on the back burner for now. I actually had met with a lawyer a while ago, he thought I was definitely a candidate for a CH 7 BK, only reason I didn't file then was because of money. Now its just a matter of principal, if these companies had not tacked on astronomical fees I probably could have paid them down instead in almost 2 years my debt doubled.

[retmar]

Always remember one thing when dealing with Providian. They do not at any time care about their customers. By charging all of these fees is how they make their money. When Providian changed many accounts to a MC last year, then notified after the change, a CSR at Providian explained to my daughter, who was one of the customers involved, that Providian does not care about its customers, it only cares about making money. They do not care whether the customer pays or not. They do not care if there is a dispute. They only do the minimum required by law to keep their doors open. These are exact words. This is also why they had their telemarketers call everyone at least twice a week so as to raise limitsin hopes the customer will screw up their account to over limit charges, etc.

[shay30]

Always remember one thing when dealing with Providian. They do not at any time care about their customers. By charging all of these fees is how they make their money. When Providian changed many accounts to a MC last year, then notified after the change, a CSR at Providian explained to my daughter, who was one of the customers involved, that Providian does not care about its customers, it only cares about making money. They do not care whether the customer pays or not. They do not care if there is a dispute. They only do the minimum required by law to keep their doors open. These are exact words. This is also why they had their telemarketers call everyone at least twice a week so as to raise limitsin hopes the customer will screw up their account to over limit charges, etc.

Yeah, I had to learn this the hard way. When I first started having money woes, I called them like its always suggested thinking I was a good customer that they would want to work with me. I got a quick lesson in Providian reality which was having been a good customer meant nothing. They are making more off me being a bad customer.

[mrsmo914]

I am going to have to check, but I think I got my lates removed on my Providian...I don't think it was a goodwill letter, but they must not have verified. The reason I closed the account with them is because they upped my apr to like 29.99% for being 5 days late. So I said, "See Ya". Luckily, I had a relatively small balance. Good luck with your trouble.

[melisadawn]

They called and left on VM that you bounced a check blah blah blah. When I was working at a CA we were not allowed to put any info on VM except this is such-such please call me back in my office at 132-456-1234.

Is it a violation talking about bouncing a check and letting it be known on VM?

[mrsmo914]

Did the OC call or the CA?

[gumshoe]

I had a providian account also. it was chargedoff and now it is being reported to arrow financial. those comments that they made regarding their customers is outrageous. But that is the world we live.

[sisflomi]

Put your prov stories here

http://www.providianfinancialsucks.com/

[retmar]

I had thought at one time to create a thread where everyone who has had a problem with them to join. Then, at a scheduled time, we all submit complaints to all State and Federal Agencies that govern banks in hopes something will be done.

As you, my wife had the same idea. At least twice a week, one of their telemarketers would call to sell her something and would increase her limit to do this. Each time she would decline. Next months statement would have the charge on it. She would call and get the runaround. They would never deduct any amount that they considered "used" meaning if it happened the first of the month, she had to pay for the whole month. She finally got so mad she told them to close account, which they didn't, send her a statement with all actual purchases made by her, whereas she would pay in full and go away. Instead they continued to add charges and whatever they could, then finally charged off and sold to a buyer. When the buyer contacted the wife, she sent an immediate DV and clearly explained the actions of Providian. The buyer has never contacted her since and all negs were removed from her CR's. As to our Daughter's problem, we happened to be at her house the day she finally got through to Providian. I actually heard what the rep said. My Daughter was going to tell them to shove it, but, advised her to just hang up and pay account off as soon as possible, then close it. This is what she has done.

[shay30]

They called and left on VM that you bounced a check blah blah blah. When I was working at a CA we were not allowed to put any info on VM except this is such-such please call me back in my office at 132-456-1234.

Is it a violation talking about bouncing a check and letting it be known on VM?

It was the CA that left the message on my vm. The guy left a 3 minute detailed message telling me how I need to pick up the phone and take care of my adult responsiblity for the bad check. I have saved the message.

I frankly thought it was illegal to leave a message like that on vm or a ans. machine. I am trying to figure out how to address that issue as well.