Should I or should I not?

[Guest]

I came to US as a legal alien. Been here for 7 years or so with impeccable credit history. Available credit is around $50K. But now I am illegal. I don't intend to come back at least for few more years. I'm thinking of maxing out all my cards and leave. Should I feel bad doing that?

[Pale Rider]

If you do that you may not want to come back. If any of the creditors can prove fraud, they may be able to go after you for criminal and civil penalties. If they are successful in bringing criminal charges, you may not be able to come back whether you want to or not.

[Guest]

Hmmm....

I will have to decide ... I don't really want to kill the gold egg laying goose...

But $50K is enough for me to live like a king for many many years....

What a dilemma!!!

[blueranger]

I am sending you a private message

[retmar]

Don't forget about the Extradition Treaties. As Pale rider says, if they can prove Fraud, they can go after you for criminal and civil charges, which will allow them to come get you where ever you may be, if there is a treaty.

[retmar]

Don't forget about the Extradition Treaties. As Pale rider says, if they can prove Fraud, they can go after you for criminal and civil charges, which will allow them to come get you where ever you may be, if there is a treaty.

So, do the right thing and don't screw yourself up for life. If you have that much available credit today, it shows you worked your A$$ off to achieve that, so don't ruin it. If you do, you can be sure you will regret it.

[Guest]

Nope there is no extradition treaty.

What is "criminal and civil charges" that could be brought against someone who uses unsecured card? I would like to learn more about it.

[blueranger]

people find themselves in this situation often... senior citizens

will give all their goods away to thier kids and go to a nursing home and try to collect medicade. the government goes after these people

people lie on loan applications... and as long as they pay they don't get caught. but when troubled times comes the bank has a right to call the loan. Or the banckruptcy judge will not dismiss it because of fraud.

there is credit card fraud and bounce check fraud...what your considering is like someone going out a few months before bankruptcy and running up all their credit cards... this is criminal...

In your case all it would take is one creditor charging you...

since you would not be in the country you could not defend yourself

and it would be very easy...then with charges you could never come

back into the country...

your best bet... is to keep your good name... even in your country

your name will be inportant... a 50k visa card is just as good in new

york as in moscow....you could still make internet purchases.

[Pale Rider]

It could be turned over to federal prosecutors if the credit card is issued by a bank that is federally insured. In a civil case, they would easily get a default judgment, because you won't be here for the hearing.

http://www.federalcrimes.com/flashSite/index.cfm?page=typescases#anchor1

Enacted in 1984, under the auspices of the Comprehensive Crime Control Act, today's statutory bank fraud provision was designed to provide an effective vehicle for the prosecution of frauds in which the victims are financial institutions -- federally created, controlled, or insured.

[blueranger]

I recently heard a story about credit problems in China.

people there are begining to use credit and they are

trying to develope a cra system... supose they contracted

with EU or TU... next thing you know your credit card

could be showing up on your cr in china..

do the right thing

[Guest]

Are all credit card companies federally insured?

I'd love to see the list of credit card companies that are.

I thought only banks were.

And what would constitute commiting fraud? Maxing a credit card would be fraud and just using half of it wouldn't be? Or would they see what I bought?

[blueranger]

in bankruptcy people max their credit card out a few months

before filing and that cause them problems...

what country can you be from that a visa would not be good

in....Im sure that even in saudi an american exp would

be a good thing to have.

[Guest]

The easiest solution is just to default on the remaining balance. That way I won't be commiting any fraud. Last I checked it is not a crime to not pay credit card debt.

There is no way I can keep paying even the minimum payment. And even if I could, mailing the payment from overseas is the pain.

[nativechild48]

The creditors can get judgements for debtors that are out of the country. Many CA's have collectors operating in foreign countries. Because you are illegal doing this constitues fraud and they will also have a case for fraudently obtaining credit, because in many cases you are asked if you are a legal resident when you apply for credit. Don't make it hard on yourself and for others. If you are being deported, this is not the way of expressing your anger, you may not want to come back now but perhaps one day you will. See if you can work out something with your CC's lenders. This is my opinion and it is up to you.

Good Luck,

native

[Guest]

I never said I was a legal resident when I got the credit card.

If I can't pay my bill, then why should I worry about it?

I understand credit card companies are asking if one is a legal resident nowadays.

[almost_there]

I came to US as a legal alien. Been here for 7 years or so with impeccable credit history. Available credit is around $50K. But now I am illegal. I don't intend to come back at least for few more years. I'm thinking of maxing out all my cards and leave. Should I feel bad doing that?

Maybe you should ask yourself if you would like having 50K stolen from you Good luck deciding.

[Guest]

Yeah..I've decided not to max out...

Instead I'm just gonna stop making payments on the remaining balance.

I can always repair my credit later.

[retmar]

At least you are realizing it would not be a good idea to max them out. At the same time, you need to understand that they can still TRY and get you for Fraud if you stop paying on the account. Their main defense would be that you stopped paying and left the country to avoid your obligation.

What you may want to do is sit down and figure out what you will need to "Get By" when you return home, including the minimum payment of your CC(s) and other debts from here. Your CC(s) probably have the higher of the interest rates, which I assume is true as you said paying the minimum isn't helping. Once you have the numbers, then start with the one with the highest balance. Add at least $20.00 a month to the minimum. When you do not feel the impact of that $20.00, add another $10.00. Continue this until paid. Take this amount of "new" money and apply to the next in line. Continue until all are paid. You will be surprised how fast the totals will drop if you do this. Another thing to remember is that if you leave any unpaid utilities, such as Power, Phone, or Cable, you may think that coming back later and fixing credit will make them go away, you are wrong. Even if the SOL has passed, the utility can refuse service until account is paid in full, plus, when it is, they can charge a horrendous deposit until you have proven yourself.

I do understand that the money you will earn back home will be less than here, which can cause quite a bit of hardship, especially in paying off your obligations you left here, but, PLEASE listen to what all of us have said and you will be quite proud of yourself in the end if you do. Also, the Web is everywhere, so you can still remain in contact with us. We will help you no matter where you are in the world. I say this as I am sure that when you leave and no matter what your intentions are, there are some items that may go to collection. We will help you satisfy them where you are not "hurt" as bad, if at all.

[Guest]

Thanks for suggestions so far.

But the thing is I can't come back to US for at least 10 years.

I could theoretically keep making minimum payments for 1 year by forwarding my address to my friend's. But after that post office won't forward my mails anymore. Credit cards would be cancelled once they find out I don't receive my mails.

I'm talking strictly unsecured credit cards here; not utilities. I still don't understand why my non-payment would constitute fraud 'cause I won't be able to pay due to my economic situation.

[Pale Rider]

If you can't pay because of your economic situation, that is a choice you would have to make. If you max out your cards and leave the country with no intention of paying the debt, that is the definition of fraud.

Here is a portion of the text from the link I posted above:

In order to successfully prosecute a defendant for bank fraud, an Assistant United States Attorney (AUSA) must present evidence that when submitted to a jury or judge would prove beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. That the defendant knowingly executed, or attempted to execute, a scheme or plan by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;

2. that the defendant acted with the specific intent to defraud;

3. that the false pretenses, representations or promises that the defendant made were material;

4. that the defendant placed the financial institution at risk for civil liability or financial loss; and

5. that the financial institution was insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or an equivalent agency as defined by Title 18 U.S.C § 20.

[Guest]

Not a whole lot of choices are left for me.

If I decide to not pay a penny after I leave, then creditors will probably try to locate me. They will keep on checking my credit report to see I am applying for new credit. And eventually the accounts get charged-off. They won't even know I left 'cause lots of people do that anyway.

As far as maxing the card out, I've already decided it is not a good thing to do.

[nativechild48]

8) It is good that you are not deciding to max out the cards but one thing that you fail to realize Did you use those cards after you were illegal I f you did, they can find this was fraudulent use because you knew that you were going to have to depart and was going to be economically depressed; so I would discontinue my use completely and continue my payments because as I stated earlier many Collections agencies outsource their debt collections overseas to places like India, Pakistan, UAE to name a few, and would love to buy bad debts or judgements that were obtained on the basis of fraud. Try to do the right thing for yourself and try to make the minimum and when you return to your country tell them of your situation and see what they can offer on the basis of hardship or settlements. You will never know when you will need credit again and nowadays things are changing. You say people do this all the time, well that is why they have become more innovative in their expertise of tracking one down, your history even via your passport and outsourcing.

[retmar]

illegal_alien, our whole intention of showing you what can be expected is to keep you from ruining something that you probably spent all of these years trying to accomplish. Now that you have reached it, we can find no reason for you to jeopardize this in any fashion. You say you would have to wait 10 yrs before returning makes no difference, the problem is still there. True, you may have the negatives not reporting, but, you will also have zero, nil, nothing positive on your reports which would cause you to receive only high percentage interest on anything you get, such as another CC. Also, one or more of these creditors may sue you for the balance. These judgments can be enforced for 10 yrs with a renewal of another 10 yrs, making it a total of 20 yrs. Other State's laws may differ on this, so you would have to read all State's laws. Be sure to take a real hard look of your options. I'm sure you will agree that what we all are saying for you to do outweighs what we are advising you NOT to do.