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dfn04

? for Methuss or anyone about Liens and judgements

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Methuss please, I have a situation that I have been trying to ask you about when I see you answering others questions on this site. So if you would?

I have many tax liens on my TU, and I have liens, a judgement, and a paid collection on my Experian report. In reading some of your post I am thinking I do this:

I have already disputed these items twice- once as not mine, and they came back verified. So now I think I should call the CRAs and ask for the validation method. Methuss what should I do from here?

I think if they should send this to me I do not think it will be a problem in getting this off, because they are not suppose to verify through the courts from my understanding. If they do not send this I will not know what to do, so please help. Thank you in advance.

Debtfree

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I'm not Methuss, but thought I'd chime in. Try the same method used to get the judgments off, posted here: http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13713.

It's not that they aren't supposed to verify with the courts...it's just that they DON'T. They'll tell you that's who they're supposed to verify with, that's who they say they verify with...it's just not who they do. So the point is to catch them in a lie.

To do this method you have to: have a lot of time to do it, have a lot of patience in letter writing, write a LOT of letters, and be willing to take it to court in the end.

One more thing...don't call them to get the procedures. WRITE...send it cmrrr. They will not send it to you. You'll have to send it again.

AND...since it IS Experian, try to make up a different letter than the one I sent (posted in the other thread). They'll catch on to it if it's all worded the same. :)

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C m chase in my position the liens and the judgement I have are mine. It has been my understanding that the CRAs were not allowed to verify with the courts seen they are not the OC.

So if I ask for a procedual description and they are able to show where they did verify with the courts, then I have no ground to stand on. Is this right? At this point they have fulfilled their obligation? Proven their point?

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It doesn't matter who is the original creditor...it matter who's the FURNISHER of information. The court is supposedly putting the information on your report, so they would be the furnisher. Collection agencies put information on your report and would be a furnisher. OCs have nothing to do with it.

The PROBLEM is...the courts aren't. If you get the right person at the court house, they'll TELL you they don't furnish information, that a third party buys it. That's the catch.

Besides, like I said before, they won't verify with the courts...they'll just say they did.

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Ok C m chase I am sooooo lost! I thought the CRAs had to verify with the original creditor when we dispute, which would not be the courts? This is where I have been trying to catch them up at.

I mean so who is to say the info is correct? If it is ok for the info not to come from the OC?

Who is it ok for info to come from?

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What happens is that the CRAs usually buy public record information from third parties such as LexisNexis. When you ask them for a procedural description, they will probably do one of two things: they will either ignore the request, or they will send you a generic description of how they might verify any information on anyone's report. If you keep pushing them to get specific about how they verified this specific information on your report, they will most often lie and say that the court verified the information.

The point of this whole process is to catch them lying to you about where they got the information. Once they do and you can prove they did (plus taking into account other violations they have probably racked up along the way), you have them by a very tender part of their anatomy. Then if you sqeeze ever so gently but firmly, you can get them to delete the item. If they don't respond to the squeezing, you can sue them.

If they don't lie and tell you right off the bat that they got the information from a third party, then there is a whole other strategy that goes with that.

What you need to do is take this one step at a time. Try not to get ahead of yourself. The first step is to request a description of the procedures they used to verify the items you are talking about. Send it CMRRR so that you have a papertrail to prove who did what when. By law, they only have 15 days to respond to a procedural description request. Don't muddy the water by disputing anything else at the same time and be very specific about what you are asking them for so they can't pretend to not understand what you want (they will probably try to anyway, but if you are very clear and very specific, that will just get them laughed out of court.)

I believe you said this was TU, yes?

Trans Union

Whatever address they are using today

Somewhere, India or Jamaica (just kidding :twisted: )

RE: file number xxxx

To whom it may concern:

On xx/xx/xx, I sent you a letter disputing certain items that appear in my Trans Union credit file. I subsequently received a report from you dated xx/xx/xx that the following items were verified as belonging to me:

List every item for which you want a procedural description

I am formally requesting a description of the specific procedures you used to verify each of the following items:

List again the items in question

As per the FCRA, you have 15 days from your receipt of this letter to comply with this request. I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

dfn04

Just do that, then come back and post the results and we will help you from there, okey dokey?

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awsome advice I need to it My wife and I had a judgement against both of us that was reported the tu the same month I filed bk the judgement ended up being vacated due to the bk. I disputed as not mine it came back deleted from my wifes but verified and remains on mine. Its now the only thing keeping me from my mortgage.

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DebtFree, listen to Auntie...she knows what she's talking about. :)

Also, it doesn't matter about the OC unless you're disputing the information listed directly by the OC. If you want to dispute the OC, they'll contact the OC. If you want to dispute the CA, they'll contact the CA. Whoever you dispute is who they'll contact.

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! C m chase you are soooo great!!!!

So, C m chase I am going to type out this letter tonight if my printer is working, may have to write it out. Do I also need to send a letter to the courts asking for proof as to if they verify, just to have more of a papertrail? Is this necessary?

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Yes, absolutely. First, I'd call or email them and see what they say. Talk to someone in say, small claims, records, court clerk's office...whoever you can think of. I finally found the second deputy in the court clerk's office who HATES the bureaus...she was nice enough to write me an email saying they do not verify or report w/ the bureaus. Actually, her quote was "we don't talk to the credit bureaus EVER"...which is perfect.

Once you find that person and know exactly how they do it, you can write them specifically and just explain the situation (say the bureaus keep lying and saying it's the court clerk's fault the info is wrong...they'll get it to ya eventually) and ask to get a copy of it in writing their procedures, if any in regard to the CRAs.

Whatever you can get in writing. Email works too, but if you can get it on the court's letterhead, you've got it made!

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Strange, since TU also is reporting an erroneous lien for a judgement on property taxes in Jefferson County (Louisville), KY (I have never owned property and no mortage company would have ever been foolish enough to loan me money). My e-mail queries to the clerks are at the end. It's obvious that the 3rd party that furnishes public records info to TU is quite incompetent and extremely careless. It may be premature, but if we found enough victims, a class-action lawsuit might be in order (we already have 2 victims).

I want to file a complaint/query with TU to have this judgement removed. Which letter format is best to start the ball rolling? If dfn04 doesn't mind, I'd like to share information just to see how TU treats us during the process.

By the way, what idiot provides TU with public info?

------------------------------------------------

The following is information I received from the Jefferson County courthouse about a property tax lien that is on two of my credit reports.

How do I get that removed? (NOTE: My social security number, address and work e-mail address have been edited).

In Jefferson county recorded August 23, 1996 book 469 page 915 is on Odella J George I can not give you the ss# number

but if you call the Jefferson Co Court house ask to speak with some one in the deed room 502 574 6220 they will tell you .

Give them the book & page # (will not give you the ss# number just name)

-----Original Message-----

From: Gibbons, D [mailto:Gibbons.D@xxx]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:35 PM

To: 'Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov'

Subject: RE:

Yes, I did. I was quite surprised, since I have never owned property and never lived in Kentucky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov [mailto:Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM

To: Gibbons.D@xxx

Subject: RE:

Did you get this from a credit report?

-----Original Message-----

From: Gibbons, D [mailto:Gibbons.D@xxx]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:36 PM

To: 'Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov'

Subject: RE:

I do not understand the form numbers, but my social security number is xxx-xx-xxxx. If possible, could you send a copy via e-mail or regular mail (whichever is easier)? My home address is:

Address Redacted

Thank you.

-----Original Message-----

From: Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov [mailto:Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:55 PM

To: Gibbons.D@xxx

Subject: RE:

Mr. Gibbons may I have your ss# ? The reason I am asking the bk469 & pa915 does not match .

-----Original Message-----

From: Gibbons, D [mailto:Gibbons.D@xxx]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:35 PM

To: 'Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov'

Subject: RE:

The lien is in my name. I discovered it accidentally, when I attempted to purchase an automobile and was denied credit.

-----Original Message-----

From: Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov [mailto:Shirley.Buffin@ky.gov]

Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:34 PM

To: Gibbons.D@xxx

Subject: RE:

Dear Sir Is this lien in your name or is it for some one else?

-----Original Message-----

From: Gibbons, D [mailto:Gibbons.D@xxx]

Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:11 AM

To: 'krc.webresponseliens@mail.state.ky.us'

Subject:

I am requesting information on B469P915 file 09/01/1996 in Jefferson County.

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Actually, I'm right in the middle of this too, so we're all learning as we go. So far I've talked to someone at the courhouse and am waiting her letter (already have emails from her). I've sent Experian procedure requests TWICE now and haven't gotten anything back. Equifax is almost to their 2nd letter on that.

It takes awhile, but it can be done...people have been winning these cases.

Go to my first post in this thread and click on the link...that will take you to my original post, where cd was nice enough to post another link - this is how it all goes. Read through both threads a few times and you'll start to understand better. The one on creditboards is long, but well worth it.

I'm not sure who provides public info to any of the bureaus...I have a feeling it's probably different for different regions. The woman at the courthouse said several names of companies I didn't recognize who buy the record microfilm to sell. (How scary!) Experian was actually one of the names she said...I wonder how THAT is legal?! One I've been in touch with is LexisNexis/Dolan/RiskWise. They basically told me they can't tell me what they do with my records. What a crock.

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Hello Everyone,

I am trying to write out this letter to the CRAs, but what if I did not send letters to dispute, but called instead? I do not know the exact dates I disputed these items, so do I just say I would like to receive debt validations for the items which have been dispute. And then list the item? Thank You, Dfn04

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Methuss please, I have a situation that I have been trying to ask you about when I see you answering others questions on this site. So if you would?

I have many tax liens on my TU, and I have liens, a judgement, and a paid collection on my Experian report. In reading some of your post I am thinking I do this:

I have already disputed these items twice- once as not mine, and they came back verified. So now I think I should call the CRAs and ask for the validation method. Methuss what should I do from here?

I think if they should send this to me I do not think it will be a problem in getting this off, because they are not suppose to verify through the courts from my understanding. If they do not send this I will not know what to do, so please help. Thank you in advance.

Debtfree

The paid collection should be no problem to remove. If a CA put it on your report, then they will have no motivation to provide verifiable proof to the CRA. They've done their job and gotten the money. Anything more at this point is an expense with no income potential.

Judgements and tax liens are another story. Those are matters of public record and can be looked up by anyone. The courts issue judgements and tax liens (I am assuming against your home) are part of the mortgage record. These can be hard to dispute if they are less than 3 years old because the records are still in the "main building" so to speak.

You're right that you should ask the CRAs for their method of verification because chances are pretty good that they didn't do anything other than match their database up to another one. Bryant v. TRW* laid down very specifically that CRAs can't do just a simple match up. They have to get actual documents or sworn statements to show proof positive that it is yours and that the entry is 100% correct. If the CRA comes back with this lame response, you can tell them you want it reinvestigated and that the above court case says that computer matching is an unacceptable response. If they still give you trouble, you sue the CRAs. TU gets sued hundreds of times a year for this very thing.

*TRW=TransUnion. They changed their name a couple years ago.

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Hello Everyone,

I am trying to write out this letter to the CRAs, but what if I did not send letters to dispute, but called instead? I do not know the exact dates I disputed these items, so do I just say I would like to receive debt validations for the items which have been dispute. And then list the item? Thank You, Dfn04

Its's better to write so that you have a paper trail. Also, you can't request validation form CRAs.

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*TRW=TransUnion. They changed their name a couple years ago.

I believe TRW sold their credit reporting business and it is now Experian.

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*TRW=TransUnion. They changed their name a couple years ago.

I believe TRW sold their credit reporting business and it is now Experian.

Nope. It's TU. Do a google lookup of TRW. Except for the automotive company that took up the name, all CR stuff points to TU now.

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Hello Everyone,

So, you all what should I do now that I have disputed by phone and have no paper trail to send along with my procedural description? Should I call the CRAs and get the dates of my disputes, and just refer to these dates in my letter? I thought about disputing all over again, but I may have to wait 60days. As this would be mythird time disputing these same items, and I know at times I can not dispute online too soon. Which would be best? What should be my next step?

I have my procedural description letter ready, but I do not have the specifics of when I disputed to send in with the letter. Thank you all again!

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UPDATE: On March, 23rd I received the results from TU on several items I disputed. On 3 of the items I disputed it stated previously verified. Does this mean they do not have to reverify these items? What should I do next? Should I wait 30 days and dispute again, by certified letter?

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Ok, here is the letter I intend to send. Please make any changes you all feel are necessary.

RE: file number xxxxx

To whom it may concern:

After disputing several items that appear in my Trans Union credit file by phone, I subsequently received a report from you dated 03/17/2004 that the following items were previously verified, and also new information listed.

PAID TAX LIEN DOCKET # XXXXX

LATE MORTAGE PAYMENT DOCKET# XXXXX

FEDERAL TAX LIEN DOCKET# XX

PAID TAX LIEN DOCKET# XX

FEDERAL TAX LIEN DOCKET# XX

I am formally requesting a description of the specific procedures you used to verify each of the following items:

PAID TAX LIEN DOCKET # XXX

LATE MORTAGE PAYMENT DOCKET #XXX

FEDERAL TAX LIEN DOCKET#XXX

PAID TAX LIEN DOCKET#XXX

FEDERAL TAX LIEN DOCKET # XXXX

As per the FCRA, you have 15 days from your receipt of this letter to comply with this request. I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

dfn04

This is it! So what do you all think? Oh, and should I add in the late mortage payment? This is what I am refering to by new information listed.

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The 3rd parties are usuallt the title abstract companies who do title work for lenders and Brokers. I have first hand knowledge that these companies are in fact totaly incompetent. Also when they do a BK search on one of my new clients, and say my clients name is Fred Done, The search on the title comes back with every single Fred Done in New York State!

It's crazy how it all works, but needless to say Title Abstract companies furnish much of this info as the 3rd party.

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