ravenrant Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Can anyone define the term "referral collections" for me? I received a letter from a Baker, Miller, Markoff & Krasny, LLC - supposedly attorneys. I looked them up and they are listed as a law firm designated as "Referral Collection - Accepts Collection Referrals". Or, has anyone heard of them? Does that mean they accept collection referrals to file suit? Their letter has the not-so-very-veiled threat of a lawsuit and a blurb in their mini-Miranda that I have not seen before "The law does not require us to wait until the end of the thirty-day period before suing you to collect this debt." WHAT??? These guys are in the same town so this is getting too close for comfort. I currently am waiting for a response from the OC to my settlement offer but this letter also states "It is now the desire of (the OC) that all payment or contacts be made directly with our law firm". Do not want to be sued, nope, I do not. Not sure of how to proceed. Kind of looks to me like they are saying they can sue right away, even if I send them a DV to buy some time to get a settlement rolling directly with the OC. Would appreciate other takes on this - Thanks!Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E Montgomery Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 It means that they accept referrals to file suit. In other words, let's say I have an account placed by an OC that owes $15000 on a business debt. The consumer refuses to pay. I need an attorney in the consumer's venue to file suit. After I get permission from my client, I refer the account to the attorney in the consumer's venue to file suit. I am not a party to the suit, since I am not the OC, but I referred the file to the attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuss Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 It means that they accept referrals to file suit. In other words, let's say I have an account placed by an OC that owes $15000 on a business debt. The consumer refuses to pay. I need an attorney in the consumer's venue to file suit. After I get permission from my client, I refer the account to the attorney in the consumer's venue to file suit. I am not a party to the suit, since I am not the OC, but I referred the file to the attorney.This is correct. But They still have to give you the section 809 mini-moranda and give you the opportunity to demand validation. See FTC letter "Mezines" and "Kroft" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolo Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Can anyone define the term "referral collections" for me? I received a letter from a Baker, Miller, Markoff & Krasny, LLC - supposedly attorneys. I looked them up and they are listed as a law firm designated as "Referral Collection - Accepts Collection Referrals". Or, has anyone heard of them? Does that mean they accept collection referrals to file suit? Their letter has the not-so-very-veiled threat of a lawsuit and a blurb in their mini-Miranda that I have not seen before "The law does not require us to wait until the end of the thirty-day period before suing you to collect this debt." WHAT??? These guys are in the same town so this is getting too close for comfort. I currently am waiting for a response from the OC to my settlement offer but this letter also states "It is now the desire of (the OC) that all payment or contacts be made directly with our law firm". Do not want to be sued, nope, I do not. Not sure of how to proceed. Kind of looks to me like they are saying they can sue right away, even if I send them a DV to buy some time to get a settlement rolling directly with the OC. Would appreciate other takes on this - Thanks!Raven'Yes, they CAN file suit even if you request debt validation and they don't have to provide the validation beforehand. BUT, think about it, why would they do that? These are suposedly lawyers. They don't want to go into court and have to explain to a judge why they didn't validate the debt in accordance to FDCPA rules. In discovery, they will have to prove the debt is valid anyway. Generally speaking, lawyers only announce their intentions/options when they think it's to their benefit to do so. They are trying to scare you into settling. Keep your head and go ahead with your debt validation request. (CMRR, and remember, you can dispute the amount of the debt even if you know the original debt is yours. Who knows what illegal or inappropriate fees may have been tacked on?) These guys will either sue you or they won't. I've dealt with a handfull of collection attorney's and all of them were just looking for a quick buck and/or a default judgement. I never gave them either and I've never been sued. Hang tough and exercise your rights. They are really just another debt collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c m chase Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Just a little extra info for Raven.Yes, they CAN file suit even if you request debt validation and they don't have to provide the validation beforehand. BUT, think about it, why would they do that? Well, sometimes they DO go ahead and sue without validating...they tell you they don't have to. The thing is - they DO have to, and if they DO sue you, you can bring this info with you to court, where they can shove it. The reason they might do it is because most consumers don't know their rights so they don't pursue it. You know better though. I've dealt with a handfull of collection attorney's and all of them were just looking for a quick buck and/or a default judgement. I never gave them either and I've never been sued. Hang tough and exercise your rights. Yup. I had one 'attorney's office contacting me telling me they were going to file if I didn't send them $xxx right away. I DVd them and they stopped talking altogether. Keep in mind, I DVd them after this supposed debt was 3 years old - not within 30 days! It went from a letter a week to no letter in 3 months. They folded pretty freakin' easily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolo Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi c m chase, (good comments) Yes, it's important to understand what the attorney's are actually saying. Here's the quote: "The law does not require us to wait until the end of the thirty-day period before suing you to collect this debt." They aren't saying that they will ignore a formal DV letter and file suit anyway. They are just saying that they CAN file suit within the 30 day dispute period. Debt validation is not mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuss Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Just a little extra info for Raven.Yes, they CAN file suit even if you request debt validation and they don't have to provide the validation beforehand. BUT, think about it, why would they do that? Well, sometimes they DO go ahead and sue without validating...they tell you they don't have to. The thing is - they DO have to, and if they DO sue you, you can bring this info with you to court, where they can shove it. The reason they might do it is because most consumers don't know their rights so they don't pursue it. You know better though. I've dealt with a handfull of collection attorney's and all of them were just looking for a quick buck and/or a default judgement. I never gave them either and I've never been sued. Hang tough and exercise your rights. Yup. I had one 'attorney's office contacting me telling me they were going to file if I didn't send them $xxx right away. I DVd them and they stopped talking altogether. Keep in mind, I DVd them after this supposed debt was 3 years old - not within 30 days! It went from a letter a week to no letter in 3 months. They folded pretty freakin' easily!I hate to say this, but a CA doesn't even have to give you a chance before filing suit. Read FTC opinion "Mezines." They can actually file suit and put the sec 809 right to validate notice on the court papers (if the court allows it) or send it up to 5 days later in a seperate notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methuss Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi c m chase, (good comments) Yes, it's important to understand what the attorney's are actually saying. Here's the quote: "The law does not require us to wait until the end of the thirty-day period before suing you to collect this debt." They aren't saying that they will ignore a formal DV letter and file suit anyway. They are just saying that they CAN file suit within the 30 day dispute period. Debt validation is not mentioned.Sort of. They can sue before you send them a DV demand, but not after. Once they have your DV letter, they cannot engage in any collection activity until they provide validation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted March 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Thanks for the great discussion. This is a CITI account, charged off in June ’03. It has been through 2 previous CAs (OSI and Academy) who each went quiet upon DV request. The amount is now up to $5,000. Only the OC is reporting, thus far. I have made several offers to settle but so far, the OC is not interested. I understand that CITI is right up there with Crap 1 when it comes to settling and deleting or improving the reporting so I might just be tilting at windmills here in hoping to deal with the OC. I read their quote about not waiting the 30 days as a warning that they can file suit during the 30 days they have given me to dispute the debt, so I would like to clarify two things: Is this a law firm CA I am dealing with or is it a law firm retained to file suit (how can I be sure which it is?) and, assuming they have not filed against me as yet, can they file suit after receiving the DV? I'm not sure how to be reasonably sure that they have not filed as yet. What is the general order - serve and file, or file and then serve? We have service by publication in this county but I do think that forms must be filed with the court to grant that method after regular service has failed. I really do not want to go through a suit. Luckily, I am in a position to settle this now and that’s my goal. I am torn about what to do – DV to hopefully buy some time to take another crack at the OC or try to negotiate with the CA / law firm (I know, I know – I really hate to do this but would like this one gone and over with). Another poster on this board had some success negotiating with CITI through a CA and I would like your opinion on his method for getting the TL removed:http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13386If I do settle (with either the OC or the CA/law firm - if that's what they are) and can’t get the TL removed or changed to "Paid in Full", how do I make sure that they do not come back for a second bite at the unsettled balance? Does requesting and getting a 1099-C for the forgiven balance close the debt once and for all? Is it legal for the OC to have listed my account as a P&L write-off, accept a settlement, then come back for a second bite?Thanks, again to all – I would be lost without these great boards.Raven’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynkewmn Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Reading through the posts,,Hey ravenrant! I'm having to deal with these guys too,, same letter,,,Since it says this law firm is engaged in the collection of debts.. yea, debt collector,, scary lookin letterhead, huh! I sent them VD, and also checked licence,,, none in IL (me too here)... Wouldn't you think they would have to be licenced/bonded if they really are CA's????? My letter states "To avoid lawsuit being filed against you, you may make payment,,, bla, bla...Keep me posted on whats going on, will do the same here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted March 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Hey, ynkewmn - are you located in Illinois, near Chicago, too?? This is what concerns me - they are too close for comfort. Thanks!Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted March 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 ynkewmn - DUH?? GEEESH - you already told me that in your post - more coffee needed here this morning. Better questions: Is it the same OC? About the same amount or more? How long ago did you send your DV and have you received a response? Have you checked with your local court clerk to see if they have filed against you? Did you get a response to your DV?Thanks!Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
700orbust Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 I am dealing with these people too! I am not in Chicago and it wasn't the same OC..... they signed the green card on 2/4 and postmarked the attempted VD on 3/17. I have found that these "lawyers" participate in the IL Creditors Bar Association (maybe even cofounders don't recall specifically)...an organization to educate on debt collection. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghacorp Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Beware, if you've been contacted by a law firm retained by the creditor and admitted to the bar in your state, it's pretty clear the intent is to sue within 30 days! Validation will not necessarily stop the process because validation occurs in the court room where a creditor representative is present to prove the basis for the claim. Discover and Sears typically have employees present to prove the case. Even when you complete the interrogatories prior to trial stating "not my debt" or "plaintiff has not validated", the necessary validation will occur at trial before the judge. Be careful with this. Validation is most effective with junk debt buyers because it is highly unlikely they can get a hold of the OC to substantiate the debt in a court of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted March 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 Thanks, ghacorp. Risking suit is my fear as they are located very close to me. So, to go back to my March 25 post, what would be your advice on how to proceed?Thanks, everyone, for your posts.Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghacorp Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 IMO, you should not be concerned with what will be reported on your credit report or receiving a 1099-C. The creditor apparently has reason to believe you can pay because you are employed, own assets, etc. For these reasons and the fact you've had previous discussions with them, your bargaining power is diminished. You could retain a lawyer to negotiate on your behalf, negotiate a settlement on your own or meet their demands. You also could just wait and see what they'll actually do. Once a civil debt action is filed the amount due goes up a few thousand dollars for legal fees and now about the only way out would be a bankruptcy filing. Once a settlement is made, no one else can come back for more, at least legitimately. Citi is a tough creditor to deal with, but I wouldn't go so far as allege they are a consumer scam as Discover Card where many customers report they've been conned out of due rewards, and shafted in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted March 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 IMO, you should not be concerned with what will be reported on your credit report or receiving a 1099-C. The creditor apparently has reason to believe you can pay because you are employed, own assets, etc. For these reasons and the fact you've had previous discussions with them, your bargaining power is diminished. You could retain a lawyer to negotiate on your behalf, negotiate a settlement on your own or meet their demands. You also could just wait and see what they'll actually do. Once a civil debt action is filed the amount due goes up a few thousand dollars for legal fees and now about the only way out would be a bankruptcy filing. Once a settlement is made, no one else can come back for more, at least legitimately. Citi is a tough creditor to deal with, but I wouldn't go so far as allege they are a consumer scam as Discover Card where many customers report they've been conned out of due rewards, and shafted in the end.ghacorp - As I said, I do not want to risk a suit and adding the $$ that would bring. This is my debt to Citi. I would like to settle it for what I racked up and some interest, but see some of the fees forgiven, that's all. I would love to see the TL removed or improved but my primary interest is getting this settled without legal action. I am only concerned about the 1099-C as my understanding is that after one is issued the debt is completely settled (please correct me if this is wrong). In the past, I had a supposedly "settled" account assign what they considered the balance (fees) and send a CA after me for the second bite. I don't think I ever said anything about Citi being a consumer scam but I know they are tough to deal with and, so far, they are not responding to my offers and will not talk with me. In your opinion, should I contact the law firm and attempt to settle, starting with the last amount I offered to the OC? DV'ing them would only be a stall tactic for me to try to deal with the OC (except to ascertain that they have been properly assigned by Citi to collect the debt and to see how the current balance was compiled) but I am losing hope that they will ever deal with me directly. Am I being unreasonable to try to settle this for less than the amount currently showing as due? Or, at least open the settlement discussion with the law firm for less? Could starting negotiations possibly dissuade them from seeking a judgment right away (within the 30 days)? Although I am not employed, I do have some real estate assets but they have not made an inquiry to my CR as yet. A previous CA assigned to this account did an inquiry - perhaps that info was part of the file handed over to this law firm/CA after that CA (one of the sleazier ones) could not validate. BTW, I have not had any previous discussions with this law firm so did you mean that my bargaining power has been diminished by sending settlement offers to the OC??Thanks for your help - I really appreciate it!Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynkewmn Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 hey ravenrant! Have been busy, yes, we may be close by each other.Will definately keep you posted to whats going on here. Good info guys, appreciate all your help here for all of us! Will be back soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenrant Posted April 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Bump - hoping for reply to my post from ghacorp.Thanks!Raven' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrhvn1 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 They will take you to court if you do not make payments or settle.I know they took me to court for a judgment against me.They offered me a settle amount in September. I was not able to pay them at that time. Called them again in April to settle with them. The price they wanted to settle was almost double. They would not even budge. The original Discover Debt was $2500 I tried to offer at $3500 but I ended up paying $4,245 total.Dont mess around with them and pay them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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