When does MONEY count?

[broke okie]

I've got a question for you all. When does the amount of the debt, be it high or low, matter in negotiating a settlement?

I ask this because my debts are quite high, much higher than any I've read on here. Of course, some of you may not have put the amounts you owed, but I'm curious if my 17,000.00 debt recently purchased by Asset is something they're REALLY going to fight hard for or if they'd treat it the same as they would any debt.

[J_Snow]

If its not mortgage debt, I dont think it matters to the law... You should read the FCRA and FDCPA. There are some limits in there but I dont remember specifically what they are. And from what I remember from your posts, I dont think they apply to you.

J

[Methuss]

I've got a question for you all. When does the amount of the debt, be it high or low, matter in negotiating a settlement?

I ask this because my debts are quite high, much higher than any I've read on here. Of course, some of you may not have put the amounts you owed, but I'm curious if my 17,000.00 debt recently purchased by Asset is something they're REALLY going to fight hard for or if they'd treat it the same as they would any debt.

A collection agency's behavior may become more agressive with a lerge sum like this, but that doesn't change the laws they must abide by.

To fight one this big, you need to tread carefully and make sure you don't do anything out of order. They will be looking for mistakes you make in your dispute process just as you should be looking for mistakes they make in collecting.

I assume this is medical, because I've yet to see anything that big outside of secured debt -- in which case, they would go the repo route, not collections.

[J_Snow]

I assume this is medical, because I've yet to see anything that big outside of secured debt -- in which case, they would go the repo route, not collections.

Nope Methuss If I rememebr correctly this is all unsecured CC debt. approx 30k total I think...

[broke okie]

J would be correct. These are all CC unsecured debts. One is 19000.00, another is 12000.00 and the other listed is 3500.00.

[cabledude]

At least I'm #1 at something. I used to have the following

MC $16,000

AMEX $10,000

Visa $6,000

Visa #2 $7,000

MC #2 $11,000

Discover $10,000

Household Loan $4,000

Grand Total $64,000

Spent some big $$ betting on the market, but it tanked on me leaving me with some angry friends. However, it came back and allowed me to pay all of it in full. Was able to settle with some favorable marks on my CR. However, when we quit paying for a few months they really were hot and heavy after those $$. From my experience when it goes above $10K they really get aggressive.

[Methuss]

J would be correct. These are all CC unsecured debts. One is 19000.00, another is 12000.00 and the other listed is 3500.00.

Still, the CAs will be very agressive with such a large sum. This is the type of situation that you have to expect the CA to file for judgements. But, if you make sure you follow the DV process carefully, you should be able to hold them off.

The biggest problem is that threats to take the CA to court will be totally ineffective. Hitting them up for $1000 in FDCPA violations would mean nothing compared to the $17,000 they are after.

Just be careful in how you handle this one.

[J_Snow]

Just wondering out loud here.. but if SOL is up in Sept or so... maybe the lie low approach is best? let SOL come and go-then worry about getting the CRs removed?

The SOL in this case is still unknown (there is a concurrent thread regarding the same info).

[broke okie]

I read Tina and J's post from the other thread and thought I'd just combine them with the ones here. Tina, I've noted the changes and will delete the portion you highlighted. Thanks to you both for posting.

As for my SOL, this much I did learn while going through old checkbook registers. I DID write the OCs in question a check in November of 2001, so that would make my DOLA January of 2002. That is what it states on my CR and I've no reason to not believe it to be true. According to both my records and the CR, my SOL is up on January of 2005. That's another 10 months, folks.

Asset just this month purchased my 17000.00 account. They just this month looked at my CR and I guess decided that I was worth pursuing. If you guys think I have a chance of just laying low until next January, then by all means I will. I'd love nothing better, frankly. BUT if this Asset is an evil company who uses underhanded tricks then perhaps I should just go ahead and DV them now and get it over with.

A big decision, I know, but I also trust your guidance. You've shown you know your stuff, so a post here tonight would be appreciated. I'll wait until hearing back from you before I take my letters to the post office tomorrow.

Thanks.

[broke okie]

And another thing...........

I've not paid on this in over two years, yet no one has ever issued me a summons for court or done anything other than send the basic dun letters and attempt to call me all the time. Why is that? I find that really interesting. You'd think they'd have gotten tougher after realizing that I'm basically going to ignore them. This is why I wonder if I can't just do the "lie low" approach which J mentioned. Too risky? I don't know....

[c m chase]

As for my SOL, this much I did learn while going through old checkbook registers. I DID write the OCs in question a check in November of 2001, so that would make my DOLA January of 2002. That is what it states on my CR and I've no reason to not believe it to be true. According to both my records and the CR, my SOL is up on January of 2005. That's another 10 months, folks.

Umm...let me get this straight.

You wrote a check in November 2001. I'm assuming they cashed this check in November 2001 too. Why would that make the date of last activity January 2002? What happened in January 2002 that was activity on the account? IF they counted the one payment as a promise to pay, thus resetting the DOLA, why on earth would that 2 month lapse be there? Am I missing something?

Asset just this month purchased my 17000.00 account. They just this month looked at my CR and I guess decided that I was worth pursuing. If you guys think I have a chance of just laying low until next January, then by all means I will. I'd love nothing better, frankly. BUT if this Asset is an evil company who uses underhanded tricks then perhaps I should just go ahead and DV them now and get it over with.

Wait...why was it you weren't going to DV ASSet in the first place?

[broke okie]

HHLD has an optional "skip payment" month in December. So that would mean my Nov. payment was made and my December payment was "skipped". Does that make sense?

And why would I not DV them? I don't know, I just wanted quadruple checking with you guys before I made a huge mistake.

[broke okie]

Okay, that was a lie. I DO know why I was not going to DV them. Because I am scared. I've read about this company and I know they'll come after me. They've got too much money riding on it not to. I read in one of their ads that they recover debts successfully in "three to five years". All I need is 10 lousy months. Too big a risk? I don't know.

[c m chase]

Well, maybe I'm having a wrong line of thinking here, but if you KNOW they're going to come after you and you think they HAVE to because it's so much mulah.....why not make them work for it?

I mean, really...if you owe them a million dollars and they don't have any proof this debt is yours other than saying 'yep, it's yours!', how can they collect? And if they're going to take you to court ANYWAY, how could DVing them make it any worse other than to say "show me the proof". The worst that could happen is that they actually show you the proof. Right? And if they're going to take you to court over it anyway......ya know?

Have they sent you a dunning letter already?

They JUST bought this account right? If you get a dunning letter from them, IMHO, I think you should definitely send them a DV.

Other people, am I way off base here? I understand not waking the beast...but if it's already stirring...

[broke okie]

Yes, they JUST bought it. They just looked at my CR on 3/12/2004. They bought it from Sherman.

[c m chase]

Oooooooh...ok. I went back and read that other thread. They just bought it AND sent you a letter saying "unless you dispute this debt or any portion thereof within 30 days of this letter, we will assume the debt is valid"....correct??

If they've sent you this letter, that means they have you in their sights anyway, they know where you are, they know you owe this money...you're a new debt to them, so they're more likely to come after you anyway....right?

It's your call whether or not you want to push this, but right now they could take you to court if they wanted to, 30 days or not. The only thing I'M saying is that if you send them a DV and they don't answer it (which I hear they don't), and it goes to court anyway, then that's something against them. You can say you don't recognize a debt of $19000 and you just wanted proof that it was yours before you accepted to pay.

Here's a link to another thread concerning Spears v. Brennan...the case that says a collector must show certain proof the debt is yours before successfully suing you in court. It's a state case law, but there's also a link to something on foreign law that will help. http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13132&highlight=spears+v+brennan

[Guest]

You have nothing to lose by doing a DV on them. You can stop them from calling your house (Limited C&D) and also get some peace of mind.

Lets say they sue you.. and you show the judge you aren't sure about the accounting on the account, or you tell the judge you aren't sure this is your account because they didnt follow Federal law to show you it was.

You might get the entire case thrown out of court. Why risk getting a judgement when you just might win??

Your state might not even ALLOW for a bad debt buyer to collect.. check and see.

Cross all your t's and dot all your i's

Hope this helps

[broke okie]

Thanks for both the posts, girls. You've given me SO much to think about. I've been in the other threads reading up on what will happen if they do take me to court, etc. One posts mentions "debt repair" and how if I don't have the money to settle (which I don't right now) that I'm not in a position to go that route. Does my not having money to offer a settlement right now affect what's going to happen in the next few months if I send out these DVs?

[c m chase]

No. It would have something to do with it if you were sending out settlement letters, but in a debt validation, that's all it is - asking for them to prove this debt is valid.

If the companies actually DO validate the debt, they'd still have to go through the process of getting a judgment to get any money from you. And they could do that without your doing a DV. It has no bearing on your sending the DV.

And Sky brought up another point that I didn't think of and I want to restate so you make sure to do it. Since you're scared of answering the phones (which we all are at first...that's what brings us to this board!), then you can add a statement in your DV letter saying something like "by federal law, I have the right to ask you to not contact me by phone after receipt of this letter. Any further contact from you should be in writing only". That way you 1) have a quiet house again and can answer the phone and 2) have them on FDCPA violation worth $1000 if they call you anymore.

[broke okie]

Gotcha! I definitely want those phone calls to stop. Here's the letter Tina made for me. I deleted the strong wording as suggested. What do you think, guys?

Asset Acceptance LLC

PO Box 795161

San Antonio, Texas 78279-5161

RE: Account # xxxxxxx

March 29, 2004

To Whom It May Concern:

I am in receipt of your letter claiming that I owe your company for a debt. According to the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I have a right to have the alleged debt validated. I have, to date, received no proof that I owe your company a debt and am requesting that you forward all proper documentation to me proving this alleged debt.

Please forward your documentation to me upon receipt of this certified letter. Please note that proper documentation is not a print out or bill from you but rather actual proof of the debt's existence. I must ask you to provide the following information:

1. Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692(e) and 15 USC 1692(f) in this alleged matter.

2. What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

3. What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?

4. Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in this state.

5. Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.

6. Please provide a complete account history, including any charges added for collection activity.

Furthermore, let this also serve as your notice not to contact me by phone in regards to this matter. If you have true and accurate proof of the alleged debt, you may forward it to me via the United States Postal Service in the form of the evidence requested above as allowed to me under federal law.

Sincerely,

Pissed off consumer

[c m chase]

Fantastic.

Get that letter out tomorrow!! Woohooo!!

[J_Snow]

Good deal...

One thing I was wondering while catching up today: do you have any assets that they can go after if they were to get a judgment? If they pulled your CR on 3/12 then their on the hunt to see what it is you have they can take. The more assets you have the higher the probability this will end up in court. Also if they pull your CR and see several high collection accounts and the potential to garnish or attach a lien, then they are going to want to be the first ones to do it. I dont say this to worry you, but its something to keep in mind. For now, let the DV letter do its work.

J

[ceowens]

Whew! I took a day off from the boards and now I'm trying to catch up on all of this! I might be here all day! Okie, send the DV letter! The way I see it, there is no reason not to. And, since you are still in the 30 days from your dunn letter, you really shouldn't wait. I like the revised version best. It accomplishes the VOD and the C&D. After that, you just sit back and wait. It is very possible, even with the size of the debt, that Asset can't validate and the next 10 months will slip on by. And, I'm not an expert on SOL, but I don't see how they can count the December "skip a payment" program as activity. Escpecially if you were already so behind on the acct. If you are behind, there is no way they are gonna let you voluntarily skip a payment. I'd put the SOL at November when you lat made a genuine payment. And, as some others have mentioned, that payment might not have even reset the SOL clock. But, I'll leave that determination to the experts. Send the letter, then let us know what happens...........

[flacorps]

Good deal...

One thing I was wondering while catching up today: do you have any assets that they can go after if they were to get a judgment? If they pulled your CR on 3/12 then their on the hunt to see what it is you have they can take. The more assets you have the higher the probability this will end up in court. Also if they pull your CR and see several high collection accounts and the potential to garnish or attach a lien, then they are going to want to be the first ones to do it. I dont say this to worry you, but its something to keep in mind. For now, let the DV letter do its work.

J

There is a countervailing impulse at work too, and that is that if there are several large accounts on the CRA report, the CAs prioritize as to collectability--meaning if there are big debts and nobody is getting paid, chances are nobody will get paid. Settle one, and others will want theirs. Think of them as sharks. If a shark tore a flipper off a seal that is now bleeding, other sharks get interested. If a shark bumped a piece of flotsam with his nose ... no other sharks care. Also they consider the possibility of driving the debtor into bankruptcy, which would wipe them all out.

Once SOL has run on the last one, CAs will have to be very realistic about settlement expectations (meaning 30% or maybe less), unless you have backed yourself into a corner by lining up a home purchase (settle all your old debts before incurring any inquiries for new credit, if you can help it).

[broke okie]

Update!

I went to the post office this morning and sent all my letters CCRR then I went to the bank and requested ALL checks from Nov. 2001 thru Aug. 2002. Covering all bases here. Gosh, but that made me feel so proud while at the same time wanting to puke. lol.

As for assets...well, I don't have anything personally in my name except for old cars, but my mother did put my name on her house as a "living trust" sort of thing. I can't do anything with the house while she's alive though, and also the house doesn't have my SS number on it. You think I need to check into this?