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Repo Company damaged my car!!


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You guys are not going to believe this!!!

Lemme give ya backstory:

I've been here for about 2 years now.. got the credit cleaned up and bought a car through JD Byrider during this time. ((OH STUPID ME))

Now.. The transmission on the van went and we were afraid to drive it.

Transmission 3 grand.. vans worth.. 2500. Amount we owe 7 grand!!

OK I got screwed.. no biggie.

((Now my credit was repaired enough that I was able to purchase a brand new 2003 Ford Focus Wagon in May.))

Now.. we call the jerks tell them we cant pay and that they can come get it.. This is the end of June.

Fast forward last night.

I get a telephone call that my ex hubbys apartment has smoke coming from it.. can I come secure his apartment.

I say sure.. have you called him.. the guys says we can't reach him can you come?

I say yeah.. on my way. I call the ex.. and he says no one called me.

Warning bells go off and I tell him to handle it.. I am going back home to the kids.

He calls me and says there is no one there and the apartment is fine.

We call back the number that called us and I find out it is the repo company.

I am LIVID!!

I tell the owner that I am filing a police report against him for calling and telling us the house was on fire and he apologizes and says I will fire them right away. yada yada bullshit spewing.

He calls me BACK.. to tell me he has fired them and can they come get the van tomorrow. They don't wanna get it that night because of all the trouble they caused.

I say sure.. no biggie..

Ex hubby missed a night of work and his blood pressure sky rocketed. He filed a police report on them for telling us the house was on fire and so on so forth.

We get up this AM.. and lo and behold the van is gone (Thank GOD)

But.. our Ford Focus now has a huge dent in the bumper and scrapes down the bumper.

The Focus was in the alley.. sort of blocking our drive because the van was in the driveway. Imagine the Ford being the Top line of a T.. that is how the cars were.. but there was MORE than enough room to get the van out if you took your time.

They scraped the Ford getting the van out of the driveway.

We call the police.. and they say we can't do anything unless there is damage to the van

We go get the van and they say.. well there is a lot of damage to the van but the repo company says they didn't do it and there is no way for us to prove it was done by them.

((JESUS H CHRISTO.. WHAT DO THEY WANT??!!?))

I did take pictures of ALL DAMAGE!

Anyway we file the damage report with the police.. and now here we are...

What do you guys think??

Repo company in violation of FDCPA for the house being on fire comment?

Breach of peace by hitting our car???

The ex was so upset he ended up going to the doctor today.. BP was 195/104.. doctor almost hospitalized him. She documented everything.

I am just stunned on this one... I thought the police would do more!!

There is obvious proof of damage but they say they can't prove that the REPO company did it. Well then who did?!?!

Well hell how does ANYONE prove that a hit and run driver does anything?!?! Sheesh!!!! They just say.. Well it wasn't ME driving the car!!!

Comments.. ideas... suggestions???

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Hi there,

I'm sorry this has happened. Believe me, I've BTDT on repo's myself in the past.

So, the repo company OBVIOUSLY won't object if you and your ex husband ask to see the car they repo'd, right???

LOL...oh, AND you can request "condition of sale" when they sell it to --especially since (if they hit the car and damaged it) they won't be able to resale it at such a good price.

LOL!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This is too hilarious...what IDIOTS. Of course what's happening isn't hilarious, but how they're dealing with it is.

If it were me I'd just say, "Um, excuse me but I left some of my personal effects in the vehicle and I understand that I have the right to retrieve those things, can you please give me directions to where the vehicle is being held?"

I would guess the repo man who "got fired" did it.

Morons! Let us know what happens with this, I just gotta know. My dh had a car repo'd last year and there were skid marks going out the drive-way and up the street...ya know, it's just uncalled for man--JEEZ they got the darn car, why not just be happy with that!?

Elyse

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When you sue them (and you will right?) hit them up with a discovery on their personnel files and records. Find out the names of the repo guys that called you and told you your home was on fire (since that is also a FELONY swear out a complaint on them with the AG too). Then hit them up to find out if they really fired the guys... If not, (and I bet they didn't) you may also find out that the guys who pulled the house-is-on-fire stunt were also on the docket to repo the van the next morning.

It doesn't take a mathmatician to add one plus one to get two.

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Ok.. here is the deal

I saw the van..it was damaged worse than the car and I took pictures.. while the police were there with us

The police said since they(The Repo company) didn't call the police and say there was a fire there wasn't a lot they could do.. it was completely civil. But we did file a police report on it.

The whole thing reeks... one of my attorney friends told me to just sit back and wait for them to sue me.. then slap the finance company and repo company with countersuits for damages.

Hell the whole thing is a mess... someone shoot me now.!!!

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I think the police need to take another class in law enforcement. If someone yells "fire" in a building, it is a felony...they don't have to call the police/FD in order to be charged such. What if you had called the FD based on what the repo guy said? Is the cop saying they would charge you and not the repo guy? Baloney. The cop just didn't want to do the paperwork associated with a felony arrest.

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So the REPO man DID do a hit and run then?? You said you've now seen BOTH vehicles and the damages could be consistent w/ the hit and run?? Are there any pain scrapings on either vehicle? Is the damage on one vehicle in the front (the repo'd car) while the damages on the other are in the rear (the hit and run vehicle?) Just wondering...because really, at this point you should be able to file a police report for the hit and run and it's only a matter of finding out who did the repo that evening.

Elyse

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Well here is the crap on all this.

The police say that they can't PROVE the repo company damaged the car when they repod it because no one SAW them do it.

And since the van was registered in OUR name.. then we can't just sue the owner of the van. ((Even though the registration was expired.. the title has our name))

And as to the calling and telling us there was a fire.. we don't know what to do yet.

Police are being idiots on all accounts.

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What MORONS!!

One final thought--if it was repo'd then you weren't the legal owner anymore though. That's one thing to point out--once the vehicle was in their possession I do believe that completes the repossession.

I'm so sorry--I wish I had more information. Hopefully an attorney here can pick this one up. The repo company should be insured and I'm thinking their insurance will have to cover the damages.

The reason I said what I did is because 5 yrs back I had my own car repo'd and about a month after it received a parking ticket. I was able to argue w/ the collection agency that it wasn't my debt, I sent them the papers from the repo and everything. Have you received your repo forms yet and if so, what does the date say?

Elyse

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If you can gain access to the van still..take photos with tape measure in hand..measuring up from ground to damage to show if at same elevation...also paint transfer is possible from 1 to another..this is clearly hit and run..a chargable offense in any distict

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In case you are unaware, if a Police Department refuses to assist a citizen in the investigation of a crime, which hit and run most definitely is, you have all rights to approach the FBI and request their assistance as the local Police refuse to investigate. It does not take an Expert to realize the damages on the one clearly match the damages on the other. The photos clearly demonstrate this. You could call the Chief of Detectives or the Chief of Police themself and demand assistance, but, due to how you have already been treated, I don't know what to say.

I do know for a fact about the FBI involvement as an old friend is a Retired Chief of Police and advised me to do this in something I am working on now for my Grandson.

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If a police officer tells you "they're not going to do anything about it", you also take your issue directly to the City Manager's office and to City Council.

There seems to be a growing number of police officers who don't feel like doing their jobs. Well.... go do something else then. There's plenty of motivated individuals fresh out of school who would love to do the job.

The Uniform Commercial Code clearly states that there cannot be a breach of the peace during a (self-help) reposession. There is no way those officer would know that - likewise, there's no justification for them to determine it was out of their scope of practice.

FYI, it's illegal for police to be directly involved in a reposession (as it becomes an Act of the State), but it happens every day.

Here's a little thing on "breach of the peace" that Starsky and Hutch should be made aware of. Telling you there's a fire most certainly is a breach of the peace. Dumbasses.

http://www.bankersonline.com/lending/breach.html

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Well now it all comes down to ......

How do we prove the repo company damaged the car?

Can we prove it was them.. and not us?

We have several witnesses that are willing to testify that the van hadn't been moved in a month and my brother pulled up behind my car the night it happened when he came to pick up my son.

The entire thing reeks....

Since we are still the registered owners.. it poses a weird question.

Do they become owners when they repo or when the car is sold?

One place says when they repo, the other place said when it's sold.

Does the repo company fall under FDCPA???

(2 attornies I know say yes, 1 says he isn't so sure)

I have the photo's, the damage is obvious.

I am at the very moment I type this on the phone with the state police.

Some people say breach of peace has to be violent. Other attorneys tell me that what they did, doesn't involve a breach.

Hell if I know.

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A breach of the peace does not have to be "violent". While the term remains vague in many courts, it has been upheld in some courts that a "breach of the peace" during a self-help repossession need not be "violent" to constitute a violation of law.

2. Violent, abusive and illegal behavior. The concept of “breach of peace” includes such obviously non-peaceable behavior as threats of violence, the use of violence,

See:

Quest v. Barnett Bank of Pensacola, 397 So. 2d 1020 (Fla. App. 1981)

General Electric Credit Corp. v. Timbrook, 170 W. Va. 143, 291 S.E.2d 383 (1982)

Deavers v. Standridge, 144 Ga. App. 673, 242 S.E.2d 331 (1978)

General Electric Credit Corp.v. Timbrook, 170 W. Va. 143, 291 S.E.2d 383(1982)

Martin v. Dorn Equipment Co., Inc., 250 Mont. 422, 821 P.2d 1025 (1991)

McCall v. Owens, 820 S.W.2d 748 (Tenn. App. 1991)

Davenport v. Chrysler Credit Corp., 818 S.W.2d 23 (Tenn. App. 1991)

Bloomquist v. First Nat’l Bank of Elk River, 378 N.W.2d 81 (Minn. App. 1985)

Ragde v. Peoples Bank, 53 Wash. App. 173, 767 P.2d 949 (1989)

Hill v. Federal Employees Credit Union, 193 Ga. App. 44, 386 S.E.2d 874

(1989)

Wade v. Ford Motor Credit Co., 8 Kan. App. 2d 737, 668 P.2d 183 (1983).

damaging the collateral, the use of abusive language, and breaking and entering. There can also be a breach of the peace where the repossessor cuts a lock or chain securing the collateral.

Although it has been held that a breach of the peace must involve violence, or some threat of violence, the majority view is that there may be a breach of peace in the absence of violence or the threat of it. A breach of the peace does not necessarily require the violation of any law.

3. Objection of the debtor. Section 9-503 does not require that repossession be made with the consent of the debtor in order to be peaceable. In fact, if the debtor is ignorant of the fact that the collateral has been repossessed, that goes a long way toward establishing that there has not been a breach of the peace in the repossession.

If the debtor is present, some courts go so far as to require that he must affirmatively consent for the repossession to be lawful.

Deavers v. Standridge, 144 Ga. App. 673, 242 S.E.2d 331 (1978)

Dixon v. Ford Motor Credit Co., 72 Ill. App. 3d 983, 391 N.E.2d 493 (1979)

Clarin v. Minnesota Repossessors, Inc., 198 F.3d 661, 664 (8th Cir. 1999)

Davenport v. Chrysler Credit Corp., 818 S.W.2d 23 (Tenn. App. 1991)

Ragde v. Peoples Bank, 53 Wash. App. 173, 767 P.2d 949 (1989)

Reno v. General Motors Acceptance Corp., 378 So. 2d 1103 (Ala. 1979)

Cherno v. Bank of Babylon, 288 N.Y.S.2d 862, 29 A.D.2d 767 (1968)

Most courts find that any creditor who repossesses over the unequivocal oral protest of the defaulting debtor breaches the peace, although facts and circumstances suggesting implied consent may make a mere oral protest insufficient to establish a breach of peace. Thus, objection by the debtor may terminate a creditor’s right to exercise self help repossession, and it must then resort to judicial process.

Further, creditors are liable for the actions of their contracted agents in self-help repossessions.

Here's the full doc with plenty of repossession 'horror stories' and the supporting rulings:

Creditor Liability for the Acts of Repossessors

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Reposession companies are collectors under the FDCPA. See the info on www.pennlawyer.com and check the section about repo-men. According to this lawyer the creditor is not the owner of the vehicle, just a lien-holder.

Check your individual state laws as well. Repossessors may specifically be addressed as collection agencies as well as any regulations or licensure requirements.

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OK.. here's how intelligent Indiana is

I called the attorney general to see if a repossesion company is a collection agency as defined under Indiana law.

THEY DIDN"T KNOW...

Nice huh?

My lawyer and my friend who is a lawyer think they DO fall under the FDCPA. 2 other lawyers I talk to says the don't..because of this one clause in the FDCPA...

(6) The term "debt collector" means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. The term does not include --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

(B) any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts;

© any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;

(D) any person while serving or attempting to serve legal process on any other person in connection with the judicial enforcement of any debt;

(E) any nonprofit organization which, at the request of consumers, performs bona fide consumer credit counseling and assists consumers in the liquidation of their debts by receiving payments from such consumers and distributing such amounts to creditors; and

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another to the extent such activity (i) is incidental to a bona fide fiduciary obligation or a bona fide escrow arrangement; (ii) concerns a debt which was originated by such person; (iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the time it was obtained by such person; or (iv) concerns a debt obtained by such person as a secured party in a commercial credit transaction involving the creditor.

I THINK that might be what he is referring to but if that isn't what he is talking about I don't see how they could say they WEREN'T covered by the FDCPA.

I think I might just wait and let them make the moves first and I will countersue them.. thereby saving myself filing fees <giggles>

And I will ask for a jury trial....oh yeah.

Any other ideas???

I would love for some of the attorneys to give their opinions about this one too.

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That would be all good and well if the OC came out and repo'd the car themselves. However, I'd argue because they used a contracted third-party company in their self-help repo, that repo company is regulated by the FDCPA - they are a third party collector for the creditor.

Your Secretary of State would have more info as to the licensure, since they are the regulatory body. Try this number: 317.232.6576

Here's some happy reading for you:

Indiana Dept. of Financial Institutions

Breach of Peace during repossession

Indiana Collection Agency Laws / Licensure

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Would you folks that are smart in legalese translate this for me???

© The term "claim" means any obligation for the payment of money or its equivalent and any sum or sums owed or due or asserted to be owed or due to another, for which any person may be employed to demand payment and to collect or enforce payment thereof. The term "claim" also includes obligations for the payment of money in the form of conditional sales agreements, notwithstanding that the personal property sold thereunder, for which payment is claimed, may be or is repossessed in lieu of payment.

Does this mean that repossessing in lieu of payment excludes them from being a collection agency??

And I did call the secretary of state as well as the Attorney General and still have no answer.

I guess we shall see

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Doc... I read that paper the first time and didn't think it would help me then I saw the

Damaging the collateral.

They messed the van up worse than they messed up the car... so I think we have them on that one.

The really cool thing is that I have enough witnesses that can testify that the van wasn't moved in a good 3 weeks that I think we can take them on that part if they try and sue us.

Thanks

Now to see if the repo company is a collection agency.

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It doesn't take that much "Gray Matter" to look at the photos, note the damage on the Van is in clear alignment of the damage on the other Car, and the colors showing match the colors of both vehicles. A properly trained "Accident Investigator" can easily determine what happened. Plus, you have your brother who partially blocked their avenue of approach, along with other witnesses to prove there was no prior damage. By chance, in your photos of the damage to your car, are any "Tracks" showing from where they dragged the van out? Remember, you can also contact your insurance company and see if they can assist. You never know, but, they may cover the damages and go after the Rpo themselves. Do not give up. Fight this all of the way. Talk to your neighbors and ask them if they saw or heard anything.

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Leave it to my local PD to screw the job.

The State Police told me that had I called them the day it happened they could have examined the damage to both vehicles and see if they thought it was enough to prove hit and run.

He told me we should have an iron clad civil case against them and to simply countersue them when they tried to sue us for the deficiency.

He was very upset that our local police dropped the ball. He said he would have loved to have gotten this buy here pay here car lot for doing this.

Oh well.. here's to living and learning.

As to collection agency issue.. the matter in Indiana.

The repo company does not have to be licensed.. but YET under Indiana law it appears they need to be registered as a collection agency so they would need to be licensed.. its very stupid.

Why me???

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