Big red flag or smooth sailing?

[xgamer]

I have a few questions and would like your opinion on my particular Bk case:

I have 8 accounts that are delinquent and have been for over 6(SOL in my state is 4 years for open ended and 6 years for written) years. I have received letters from the OC’s and a few CA’s but have never answered them after my last payments. I have a default judgment that is 6(SOL is 8 years in my state) years old. Was a furniture loan (secured). I have not had a job since 99 and have had very little income. I have filed a no asset Ch. 7 Bk and will have my 341 meeting at the end of the month. My question is, does not having a job for the past 5 years raise a big red flag to the trustee? I was just curious because my Bk Attorney had mentioned that if they had a problem with anything it would be that. I have no reason for not having a job other than I do not exactly need one at the moment. I live with my parents and do not have any real expenses. I understand I did owe this debt but now due to SOL I do not. All the accounts are past SOL and the only one that is not is the judgment it self.

I had paid a different judgment off that was filed at the same time as this unpaid one. This judgment is marked paid as it was satisfied in full. I had paid $50 a month until paid.

I also was paying the IRS back taxes that I had owed 1997 and 1998. I paid them 70 a month till paid. They are paid off as of 10/04. I had sent a payment for $1600 on 10/04 to pay the remaining balance. This was paid by my mother who really hated the idea of me owing the IRS.

My girlfriend has helped me with the other payments that I had made on the judgment and the IRS. Will the court frown on this?

I have not filed taxes or not had to file taxes since 99 due to no or very low income. I do make a few bucks on some Internet sales affiliate programs but not enough to file taxes on. Under 500 yr. Will this be a problem? Should this of been reported?

At the time of delinquency I worked in Hazardous Waste and had for about 10 years prior. I had quit a job that I had been at for about two years and started another job immediately after. After a few summer months I was laid off due to reduction of force. Since then I have not worked or even looked for a job. I had, had it with that business and felt I was really wasting my life continuing in that field.

Please give me your advice as to this case and what you think. Big red flag or smooth sailing?

[bingo]

Why are you filing bk if all this stuff is SOL?

How much is the judgment?

[LadynRed]

I'm guessing that the lawyer's inference that the Trustee may have a problem with your lack of employment IF you incurred debts during that time. Incurring debt when you have no means to pay it and have done nothing to secure employment in 5 years would look like fraud.

I tend to agree with Bingo, why file for BK if everything is past SOL except the one judgment ??

The regulars here will tell you I don't usually get judgmental when it comes to bankruptcy.... but

... why don't you get off your butt and go to work ? If you'd said you were disabled I might understand, but you're not. You're going to cost taxpayers money with your bankrutpcy simply because you don't WANT to work ?? Go to school, re-educate yourself if Hazardous Waste isn't your 'thing' any more. I don't have any problems with people who have real problems, but laziness just frosts my cookies

[xgamer]

I filed before I knew about the accounts being past the SOL. Bk attorney did not fill me in on this. He looked over my files and said "all looks good, call me if you have any questions". I definitely would not have filed if I would of known, or at least I would have reassessed the situation.

The amount of the judgment is 3500.00. It was for a 30 inch TV and a 266Mhz desktop computer tower (no monitor, keyboard or mouse) which both were sold years ago. This stuff was bought in 96. I have no idea what fair value would be now but I do know it is not much. My brother has an old 400Mhz comp sitting in his closet that he can't give away! I would say the TV might be worth something but not over $75 - 100.

I had paid the other $500.00 judgment in payments and ended up paying 1000.00. I mean the Bk on my CR is worth more to me than paying the judgment in full. Besides I do not have the means to even pay regular payments at the moment. If I have to pay anything due to it being a secured loan it would be at fair market value right? Do I have to have cash on hand to do this. The reason I ask is because if any one is going to show up to the 341 meeting it will be these people from what I have read they always do and with a judgment why wouldn't they.

I was getting letters demanding payment from CA's. I wanted to get all this behind me. Moms said she was paying off my IRS for my BD and if I needed help with this, she would help. So I jumped on the opportunity to get out from debt altogether.

[LadynRed]

If you're referring to Sears, even they don't bother to show up at Bk's any more. Since Citibank bought out Sears CC, they have deleted the security interest clause in their CC agreements. No one will show up at your 341 meeting.

Oh.. and BK attorneys, or regular attorneys, rarely get the SOL thing right anyway.

[xgamer]

I understand you comments and do agree to some extent. Re-education is something that I have considered. I had just found out the other day that past credit history did not matter when it comes to student loads.

Job or no job I was going to be in the same place (huge debt) so having a job was not that appealing. If I did get a job, my checks would be garnished. Another strike against the idea. I have re-educated myself a little bit. I mean, things like installing firewalls and such on remote linux servers from the command line at home is not that hard for me. Finding a company to hire you with your home school credentials or with out a GED is (not looking for sympathy just stating the facts).

I shouldn’t of stayed in that dead end job, going no place but down. Cancer is a serious disease and that scared me more than any OC or CA! I had worked in that field for 10 years and knew just about all I could. I wasn’t going anyplace fast in my opinion. This particular job was extremely physically demanding. I had seen many people come and go due to the extremities of the job. Also, this job was very competitive. A lot of the time I would move from company to company following jobs. State to state, town to town. Was nice when I was younger but when I started to mature I realized that the travel thing was not as fun as it once was. One more thing is the fact that I had a job when I was 14 till I was 29. Worked hard for everything I had and paid taxes. Honestly, I felt like taking a break. I didn’t mean for it to turn into such a long stretch but that is in the past and now I have this ahead of me. I wouldn’t have filed in the first place if I didn’t think I was doing the right thing.

I have not incurred any new debt since 98. None of the accounts DOLA are in 99 – 04. All are in 98 including the dept store that has the judgment. No accounts have been opened since 96. I have not worked since the first quarter of 99. I know, I know!!

The dept store is not Sears. They are a local company. I do hope you are right about them not showing up.

[xgamer]

One more thing I wanted to point out while letting you know my credit history.

When I defaulted on my payments I was heavy in debt and was living beyond my means. I was having a hard time making it from check to check. I changed jobs, making what I thought was a good move to better my situation only to be laid off some months later. I did try to get on at a few more companies around town at the time. It wasn’t like I had just given up completely (that came later) on everything as it may have looked. I paid my lease off and what other bills I could at the time with my unemployment. All the bills I didn’t pay were getting higher and higher with no end in sight. No way I could pay all the interest and late fee charges they were charging me. So yes I defaulted on all of them. 180 days later they were all charged off. I did go see a Bk attorney but was told it would cost me 2000.00 out of pocket expenses for his services due to the secured property (had sold it). I didn’t really have a pot to pee in at this point so there was really no way I was going to come up with 2g. Since that time I had thought it was going to cost me that much. I had no idea I could do it all for just over 500. I wish I would of filed years ago. If I had, I know you would not be criticizing me. Only thing that has changed is time. I did not run up my cards or go on a spending spree before I stopped payment. I did what everyone else did in this same situation but instead of immediately running to the local courthouse and filing (just to be back in the same place in 6 months with all their high interest credit). I actually sat back and thought about what I did wrong, learned from my mistakes and am now ready to move on. Sure 5 years may seem a bit excessive to sit back but I have had to live without credit for years. That alone would be hard enough to break some of you here.

[LadynRed]

If you've incurred no new debt since 1998, then I don't see how the lawyer can say any red flags would come up... there's simply no basis for fraud and certainly no real grounds for substantial abuse. You're not going to be in that 341 meeting long enough for the Trustee to make any judgments about your employment status.

What state are you in ? Are you sure they can garnish wages ? With a judgment that old, I"d be willing to bet they'd never know you had a job, probably not paying any attention any more. Have they ever made any moves to execute the judgment ?? If not, you need to check state statutes, specifically pertaining to dormancy of an unexecuted judgement.

[breathing_easier]

I understand I did owe this debt but now due to SOL I do not.

This is a misconception. Just because a debt is past SOL does not mean you no longer owe it. Until it is paid or settled you will always "owe" it. With the exception of California, you can still be sued in every other state for a time-barried debt. The fact that it is past the SOL should be a iron-clad defense; however, not all judges see it that way.

[breathing_easier]

Honestly, I felt like taking a break. I didn’t mean for it to turn into such a long stretch but that is in the past and now I have this ahead of me. I wouldn’t have filed in the first place if I didn’t think I was doing the right thing.

If nothing else, I can appreciate your candor, xgamer! Sounds like you've been doing some soul-searching about your situation and that's a good thing. I know that when you're back on your feet you'll repay your mom and your girlfriend as that is the right thing to do. And, like most of the rest of this on this board, you'll pass along what you've learned about respecting credit to the newbies that come along. Now here's the pep talk: Five years is waaayyyy too long of a break, especially when you have obligations and debts. You're 34 and living with your parents, to whom you should at least be paying room and board. My parents are great, but would have kicked my tush out after five weeks, let alone five years! Up and at 'em, even if you have to work at Mickey D's. In the long run you'll feel so much better about yourself.

[xgamer]

Thanks for the replies!!

I am not sure if they can garnish your wages here in Utah. The dept store has never made any contact with me since the initial summons. They do check my CR’s once a year to see if I am accumulating more debt I guess. They have hit em every year but 04 so maybe your right about them not paying attention any more. They have re-aged the account on my CR’s and removed a 90 same as cash positive trade line. Still have a positive 12 mo (2500) same as cash trade line reporting “paid as agreed” from them. That and my 42 mo (15000) lease are the only positives!! Well, except this Sears account that all of the sudden started reporting paid as agreed. It’s included in the Bk so I am sure the status will change sometime. The dept store is already reporting the Bk status on my CR’s. I am sure they all will soon but they were the first.

I would like to find the info on the state statutes, specifically pertaining to dormancy of an unexecuted judgment. Where would I start to look for this info?

I understand now that I will always owe this dept until I settle or pay it. Am I right in assuming a Bk doesn’t settle the debt only payment or settlement. With the SOL on my side and a Bk I think that may be ironclad enough for me.

Well I’m glad you liked the story. I really wasn’t sure if I should say all that. Somewhat embarrassing but I knew if I didn’t tell the whole story than I wouldn’t get an honest answer. Thanks for the pep talk breathing_easier!! It’s working already Isn’t it amazing how a stranger can have a great affect on how you think by just stating a few words. I was really annoyed last night about how red reacted to me. Not sure why but I thought about it for hours. Not like I don’t already know what you guys are saying but for some reason that just really got under my skin.

Anyhow I feel much better about this 341 meeting. Thank you LadynRed!

I have a couple of other questions though. Can/will this judgment be voided or removed from my credit report after discharge? If so, does my attorney have to file a motion of some sort to have this done? Is this something that would normally be included in Bk case with a judgment or is this something that he is going to tell me will cost me more?

I had read that you have your attorney file a motion to dismiss the judgment but I wasn’t sure on specifics. Considering how old this judgment is, can it be dismissed or vacated?

[breathing_easier]

Thanks for the pep talk breathing_easier!! It’s working already Isn’t it amazing how a stranger can have a great affect on how you think by just stating a few words. I was really annoyed last night about how red reacted to me. Not sure why but I thought about it for hours. Not like I don’t already know what you guys are saying but for some reason that just really got under my skin.

I know, sometimes the truth is the hardest thing to hear. But it sounds as if you have a great attitude, and I think deep down you already knew what Red and I were saying. With a little determination you'll have things back on track in no time.

I believe the judgment will be noted as IIB (Included in Bankruptcy) on your reports. I think Red would know for certain. Many on here have had success in having judgments stricken from their reports, so read up on the subject even before your BK is discharged so you'll be ready to start the credit repair process as soon as the discharge is entered.

There is a link regarding vacating judgments at the top of this page. It may provide some answers for you.

[LadynRed]

It is ILLEGAL to even attempt to COLLECT on a time-barred debt is WI, let alone suing on one.

Search the Utah statutes under Civil Procedure, that is where the section pertaining to judgements will be.

[braxas]

Taking into consideration what youve said

"I have filed a no asset Ch. 7 Bk and will have my 341 meeting at the end of the month. "

It appears that the BK is not finalized..depending on what you have already paid the attorney, just forget it..if its all time barred..your home free..but yes..get a job..get an apartment..get the stuff off your credit report..and most important of all..GET OFF YOUR ARSE my friend...LOL

[Xanathos]

What I don't get is why you're still going to go to this BK hearing? Now that you know you're basically uncollectable....why bother going through with it? Gonna take a 10 year credit hit just because you've "already come this far", so to speak? Doesn't make much sense to me.

One other thing I want to point out: If you're re-educating yourself to enter the tech sector? Don't.

I'm an Internetworking Security Consultant by trade (that's the fancy name used for basically what you're saying you're learning to do), and if that's the field you want to go into, you have 3 major problems

1) The tech sector is still heavily oversaturated, especially with all the outsourcing going on

2) Reputation is everything, and you don't have any (the field is almost exclusively dominated by crackers, so you have to have a bit of a name) and

3) Installing firewalls isn't what we get paid for. Anybody can install a firewall in a box. These days, companies want custom jobs. Nobody wants a security net out of a box anymore, no matter how well-renowned it is. They want special modifications, black hole stub networks, poison pills, the works. Or if they already have one in place, they want you to crack it, note the holes you used to get in, and then patch em up. There's an awful lot to it.

Not trying to detract you from it if that's what you wanna do to avoid competition (hell, I can count on one hand the amount of people on the planet I'd tip my little gray hat to), just telling you how it is.

The IT sector just isn't the place to be trying to get into right now. If you wanna play with toys, you might wanna look into nanotechnology. That field is going to be the "next big thing", all understaffed and the like.