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Chase Manhatten Problems


candydandy
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My SIL has a Chase Manhatten Credit Card, and is behind 3 months on payments. She works full time, and goes to college on a school loan. Because of things tightening (no more overtime at work-she's now lucky if she can get 40 hours a week) she's been unable to make any payments on her Chase card.

Now, she's having some major prolems with Chase calling her at work constantly. She is not allowed to have many phone calls at work, and is getting a bit of a hassle from her boss over these calls. (it's a senior citizen home she works at) She has politely asks Chase to quit calling her at work, and the woman (same woman every time, and EXTREMELY rude and obnoxious) claims since she is unable to reach her at home and something is wrong with her home telephone, she would continue to call her at work. (That's a lie about something being wrong with her phone, since I call her at home all the time) I told my SIL to send them a limited cease and desist stating that they can only contact her by postal mail, and they are not to contact her at her job AT ALL anymore.

Since the account is 90 days overdue, I'm sure it is still the OC giving her this hassle, and not a CA, but the tactics used by this woman is CA tactics. She is hounding my SIL, and causing her problems at work. She called once for my SIL, and she wasn't working that day, and then told the girl who answered the phone that she was lying and trying to protect my SIL.

Could someone give me some advice on helping deal with this situation. My SIL did send a limited Cease and Desist letter via CMRRR (Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested) out in yesterdays mail for starters.

Also, to get this woman off her back, my SIL told her she would call the woman back by 5:00 PM Wednesday (today) to speak to her about this bill. My SIL wants me to pretend to be her on the phone, and give the women 'heck'. My SIL is very laid back, and has caved in under the pressure from her before, so I don't think this woman will believe that I am my SIL since I can be stubborn, and tell CA exactly I think. So, I guess my questions would be:

1- Is it illegal to impersonate someone even if I have their permission?

2- If so, what would the best angle be to play this? Can my SIL tell the woman she is giving me permission to speak for her?

I plan on recording the conversation, which in Alabama is legal (we're a 1 party state).

3- Can I use the threats she's been saying (if she says them again today) against her? She has told my SIL to borrow the money from friends or family, use her school loan to pay the credit card payments, take an equity loan out on her house (she just bought the house 2 years ago, so there isn't any equity in it anyways). She also told her she would foreclose on her house (which I know she can't do!) and told her she could allow Chase to do a voluntary Garnishment of her wages, or else Chase would garnish her wages involuntary.

I am familiar with dealing with CA not OC. All my CC bills are now listed as 'Charged off', and sold to other CA. I'm riding the clock on most of them, and two will reach the SOL in Alabama in December. So, I'm slightly unfamiliar with dealing with my SIL situation. When I went through that part of the game, I was unemployed (so didn't have to deal with phone calls at work) and I just let my answering machine take all my home phone calls.

Any help is greatly appreciated, and I'm in desperate need of answers before this afternoon.

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Since this is the OC calling, the rules under the FDCPA simply won't apply unless they use a false company name to trick her into answering the call. Use of any name that would give the impression to the least sophisticated consumer that a 3rd party debt collector is involved erases an OC's immunity from prosecution under an FDCPA claim. Also, if an OC allows a CA to use their name in collections, that too erases the OC's immunity to the FDCPA. So a little research is needed here to find out the truth of who is calling.

Next. Do record all further calls. I suggest telling this slap-happy b$%ch that all further telecommunications will be recorded even if she calls the place of employment. That should stop the calls to the work-site, even if it is just a bluff.

I worked for the First National Bank of Chicago's law department and I can tell you that the threats that were made are certainly not legal even for the OC to do. If any payments were made as a result of those threats, then Chase can be prosecuted for extortion under the Hobbs Act. It also violated the Telecommunications Act on it's face since the calls are meant to intimidate and harass the person receiving the calls.

I suggest letting this stupid person "shoot herself" by letting her make threats while recording the call. Then make a copy of the tape and send it to Chase's legal department with an Intent to Sue letter. When I was FNBC we got a lot of these types of cases coming through the law department. Almost invariably it ended up with a settlement to the consumer and the employee being fired.

Lastly, do NOT impersonate your SIL under any circumstance. In this age of ID Theft, you could get into a heap of trouble. Acting on her behalf can be done but you need to mail/fax a power of attorney to Chase showing that she has given you permission to act on her behalf.

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Your SIL might want to remind that screaming harpy that if she costs your SIL her job by her constant calling, then Chase will have NO chance of getting paid anything once she's unemployed !!!

OC's may not be bound by the FDCPA, but if they know you can't take calls at work and could lose your job, they are supposed to stop.

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Ok, my SIL is here now, and I have a bit more info on this. It is NOT Chase Manhatten calling her, it is the "Law Office Of Larry Roach". On the paperwork she has, it shows Creditor name as CACV of Colorado, LLC, and Original Creditor: Chase Manhatten Bank.

The last time she made a payment was on August 2nd of this year, so it is not even 90 days late. The payment she made on August 2nd wasn't quite the minimum, but it was all she could afford at the time. Her total amount they claim she owes is a little over $2900.00.

The woman who has been hounding her told her to call back today before the end of the business day today to give them a solution to her debt, and how she will pay it, or she will:

garnish her wages,

take the equity from her house since her Mortgage is an assett. (Atually, her mortgage is not an assett, it is a liability, and there is NO equity in her house!)

The solutions the woman gave my SIL to consider was:

To voluntarily allow them to garnish her wages,

put her CC debt on someone else's credit card with their permission,

take a loan out,

borrow from friends, work or anyody else.

When she calls her at work, she tells other people the phone call is from the Law Office of Larry Roach. Wouldn't that be a no-no?

This is a CA calling her, because it says in the letter:

Re:

Creditor: CACV of Colorado, LLC

Original Creditor: Chase Manhatten Bank

Toll Free Number: 1-866-204-3699

Fax Number: 1-330-668-2092

"This office has been retained to collect the debt owed to you to CACV of Colorado, LLC. This is a demand for payment in full because you have had ample time to pay your creditor."

"Unless, you, the consumer, within 30 days after receipt of this notice, dispute the validity of the debt, our office will assume this debt to be valid."

"Please call our office immediately. The toll free number is 1-866-204-3699"

"This is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose."

My SIL is her right now,and we'll be waiting for any help you may offer.

Any ideas on what to say to this person when we call?

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A limited C&D was sent out yesterday, though they would not have gotten it yet. I will suggest to her to DV them within the next day or two.

We haven't gotten this on tape yet, but since we have to call this company back sometime today, it should be easy enough to get that on tape. I have the tape recorder all set up to go, and Alabama is a 1 party state, so I am going to suggest to SIL to play the soft spoken-kinda scared like victim. (Actually, she is soft spoken, so it won't be an act) I am going to put it on Speaker-phone, and let her dig her own grave (the other woman) and then jump into the conversation once we get all we need, and inform her that the entire phone call has been recorded. Any suggestions on what kind of things we should address on the phone with her?

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Whew! ok, phone call made, and conversation recorded.

This woman (Laura or Laurie) was asked point blank by my SIL if she was a collection agency, or debt collector, and the woman denied it and said "No. This is a law office". But since she is acting as the debt collector, isn't this a lie?

She asked SIL if she had a friend or relative could 'help you with this', and when SIL said no, the woman asked her how she knew that, Had SIL already asked them? When SIL said 'No', the woman said "Then how do you know they can't help you out?"

SIL did tell her not to call her at work anymore, and the woman said she was going to tell her client that SIL refused to pay off CC debt. SIL verified that she did NOT say that, she said she didn't know HOW she was going to be able to pay any debts off.

I'm going to recommend my SIL DV them within the next few days. Any help, suggestions?

Don't we have her on at least a few things?

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What about if the woman calls her at work again since we have a limited C&D, and she also told her on the phone that she is not allowed to accept phone calls at work. Wouldn't that be a penalty each time they call her at work?

ONLY after you get the green card back. A C&D over the phone is considered not to have happened.

I doubt the misrepresentation would fly as they ARE a Law Office.....

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So far I count at least 4 FDCPA violations. I suggest you transcribe the conversation then get in contact with a consumer protection lawyer. edcombs for example will probably take this one up on contingency as it is such a cut-and-dry case of FDCPA violations.

*Threatening action that cannot be legally taken

*Deception

*misrepresentation of the debt

*refusal to cease contact by telephone

*implied threat of contacting 3rd party about debt

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ONLY after you get the green card back. A C&D over the phone is considered not to have happened.

I doubt the misrepresentation would fly as they ARE a Law Office.....

Not quite. She recorded the call so she has proof that they were instructed not to call place of employment. If you check the wording of the act, a verbal notice not to call work is all that is required. The subject of proof is why you have to mail it. The recording takes care of that problem.

From this point on any call to work is a violation...plain and simple and it can be proven.

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ONLY after you get the green card back. A C&D over the phone is considered not to have happened.

I doubt the misrepresentation would fly as they ARE a Law Office.....

Not quite. She recorded the call so she has proof that they were instructed not to call place of employment. If you check the wording of the act, a verbal notice not to call work is all that is required. The subject of proof is why you have to mail it. The recording takes care of that problem.

From this point on any call to work is a violation...plain and simple and it can be proven.

Excellent point!

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It should also be noted that once a debt validation request had been signed for (received) by the CA, ANY collection phone call (at work or at home) is a violation of the FDCPA for continued collection activity, until such time as debt validation has been completed.

So, if a limited CD AND a DV have both been received by the CA, ANY collection phone call equals two FDCPA violations.

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Larry Roach (get me the RAID !!!) is a sleazy rent-a-lawyer for Collect America (CACV). There are as sleazy and low-life as they come in the collection business, with a VERY bad reputation. However, they rarely sue anyone, their specialty is threats and intimidation to make people pay.

Don't be put off by their 'refusal to pay' crap, it is SPECIFICALLY designed to piss you off and to bait you .. don't take their bait.

A mortgage is an asset ?? That bitch needs some accounting lessons !

Voluntary garnishment ?? NO SUCH THING -- and completely bogus w/o a judgment first.

CACV/Roach IS acting as a 3rd party debt collector and they ARE bound by the FDCPA - and they're racking up violations. The C&D was the right thing to do. Now just stop talking to them completely. Their 'deadlines' are totally bogus, so ignore them.

You might want to read what Bud Hibbs has to say about CACV:

http://www.budhibbs.com/Collect%20America.htm

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