DRS INCORPORATED/DRS ASSOCIATES

[Mr. White]

OK, this is going to be fairly long. So bare with me.

First, I want to ask you all if you have ever heard of DRS INCORPORATED? or DRS ASSOCIATES? I received a phone call from a CA stating that he works for DRS ASSOCIATES. However, when I called back the number he gave me, the recording stated that it was DRS INCORPORATED. Can he mislead me like that with the company name? I know it's a small descrepancy, but it is one nonetheless. I did a search online for the company IN BOTH NAMES and I could not find anything. Also, in messages left and in the discussion we had, he never mentioned what the company was, other than that they were looking to settle a debt of mine with the OC (original creditor), right? He tells me that I have a lawsuit against me and that he is suing me. During all this time, I assume

he is a lawyer and his company is a law firm. Prior to my conversation

with him, he calls my mother (in search of me) and tells her that the phone call is regarding a 'suit against me'. Is that illegal? Now, I know that CA's can't tell a third party outside of the consumer anything related to the phone call, or as I thought. So I hope somebody can clear that up for me?

Second, he tells me that I have to give him a post-dated check the full amount by Wednesday, today is Monday. If I give him a post-dated check, he says that he will post-pone the 'suit being filed' until November 31. If I do not give him a post-dated check by Wednesday, than he will be forced to 'file a suit against me'. Again, this is all prior to my discovering who he is and who he is representing. Do I have any grounds here for legal action, yet? I might say something here in a bit that might act as good grounds, not sure yet.

Third, he asked me if I had heard of my creditor's name. I said yes,

but this doesn't necessary mean that I agree to having the debt does it?

Does this mean that sending a DV letter is pointless? Or can I send one

after that conversation? Would it make a difference?

Fourth, I have been looking around the net trying to find out if my state is a 'one-party' state, implying that my state for one, is a legal state to record telephone conversations in, and two, that it is a 'one-party' consent state. Meaning that only I have to have consent of the phone call being recorded. I live in the state of Missouri and the call is being placed from the state of Texas. I don't know if that has any bearing, nor do I know if it has any bearing of whether it is a land-line that is recording the call or if it is a cell phone recording the call. I hope somebody can help me here, because I believe that they have infringed on some my rights under the FDCPA and possibly the FCRA. And I think that if I continue to take their calls that they might do it again. Which would lead to more evidence for a potential case.

Fifth, this is a commercial debt with a P.G. (personal guarantee), by yours truly. I also do not know if this changes matters or not.

Sixth, I have hardly any assets nor money in my name. However, I do have a ROTH IRA account with some money in it and I am curious if this is subject to being garnished and whathaveyou. There is NOWHERE near enough money in it to satisfy the debt. Other than that, I have some clothes, a computer, maybe some furniture (parents bought it, I still have it, dunno if that matters), and a car that might be in my name by the time I have a 'suit filed against me'. Other than that, I am broke as a joke. And a not very funny joke at that. That and I have no idea when I will be making money either, since I am working for a start-up company and money is very very limited. Note, that this start-up company is a different company than the one that I worked for when

I personally guaranteed the debt that I speak of, and that the company which I personally guaranteed the debt is now desolved.

I am sure I will think of some more things to add and if not. I hope that one of you out there will be able to help me.

Thanks in advance.

-Collins-

[willingtocope]

Wow...lots of stuff to cover here. Lets start at the end and work backwards.

If the debt is in the name of a business, then the FDCPA does not apply. However, if you personally guranteed it, and the collector is now claiming that this will appear on your personal credit report...you MAY be able to claim some of the protection of the FDCPA. I have had some success scaring away CAs by saying, "okay, now you say its a personal debt so therefore the act applies, play nice". Note however that I eventually wound up declaring personal BK to protect us from these business debts.

Do you have anything in writing from this joker? If not, next time he calls tell him "I'm recording this conversation...from now on, all contact with me must be in writing...and hang up". You don't need to talk with him.

If you do have something in writing, do the DV, C&D letter thingy on him. Again, the FDCPA may not apply, but you still have the right to make him prove he's got the right person, the right to collect, licensed in your state...etc.,

The other stuff you mention...difference in names, contacting your mother, threatening suit...would be difficult to prove. Wait until you get things in writing...

As to your assets...this guy needs to take you to court and get a judgement against you before any of that can happen. You've got lots of ways to delay that. Maybe eventually you'll have to do a BK, but that's a ways off.

[baglady]

www.rcfp.org/taping Missouri is a 1 party state but even if it wasn't if your going to talk top them at least tape it.

If I give him a post-dated check, he says that he will post-pone the 'suit being filed' until November 31. If I do not give him a post-dated check by Wednesday, than he will be forced to 'file a suit against me'.

That's probably an idle threat since there is no such thing as Nov 31, it only has 30 days If you actually did give them a check by Wed, why would they then file a suit against you in a week? Suing someone that is doing what you want, when you want, makes no sense

[Mr. White]

Ok, I'll address willingtocope first off. THANK YOU for posting your knowledge on this and thank you for anything else you may add. Again, this might be long, as I am including a reply to another person within this message.

If the debt is in the name of a business, then the FDCPA does not apply. However, if you personally guranteed it, and the collector is now claiming that this will appear on your personal credit report...you MAY be able to claim some of the protection of the FDCPA.

Ok, the debt WAS in the company name, until it did not pay the invoice for a certain amount of time, at that point the creditor decided to go ahead and begin to come after me for it. I did personally guarantee it, the company that it WAS under is desolved now. The collecter never 'claimed' that it would appear on my credit report. He just mentioned that a suit would be filed against me and not the company. 'I MAY be able to claim SOME protection under the FDCPA.' Ok, what stipulates the difference between I MAY and I WILL be able to claim SOME and not ALL of the rights under the FDCPA?

Do you have anything in writing from this joker? If not, next time he calls tell him "I'm recording this conversation...from now on, all contact with me must be in writing...and hang up".

Does he have to meet my request on that? I thought they can call until they receive a C&D letter!?!?

As to your assets...this guy needs to take you to court and get a judgement against you before any of that can happen. You've got lots of ways to delay that. Maybe eventually you'll have to do a BK, but that's a ways off.

I realize they have to file a judgement and it will take time and all, but I am just curious as what action would they take if I didn't have any money nor assets for them to take as collateral. Would they even bother? I seriously am broke, I am in DEBT and lots of it (for my age, I might add).

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And now I'll address baglady. THANK YOU as well for your input. Especially the information regarding the '1 party state'. I appreciate that, I was going to record it regardless for note taking purposes. But, I was just curious on grounds for evidence in court.

MY

If I give him a post-dated check, he says that he will post-pone the 'suit being filed' until November 31. If I do not give him a post-dated check by Wednesday, than he will be forced to 'file a suit against me'.

YOUR

That's probably an idle threat since there is no such thing as Nov 31, it only has 30 days If you actually did give them a check by Wed, why would they then file a suit against you in a week? Suing someone that is doing what you want, when you want, makes no sense

Ok, the Nov. 31st date is my mistake, that was a typo. I am not paying attention to months and days right now. The 30th is the correct date, I just assumed everyone knew what I was implying, which was the 'end of the month' he was giving me. If you look at my quote again (reason for my putting it there) you'll notice I said that if I gave him a check by Wed. he would POST-PONE until the end of the month, NOT file a suit against me that same week even if I did send him a check by Wed. He would only file a suit against me by Wed. if i DID NOT send him a check by Wed.

*Side Note*

None of that was to sound cruel and sarcastic, I simply put it there to make sure we were on the same page.

[willingtocope]

Okay...the post dated check thing is a tried and true CA tactic. They do that to see how susceptible to intimidation you are and to see if you do have money for them to keep after. Don't agree to that and don't worry about it...it wouldn't help, and they would just be back after you for more and more.

You don't make it clear whether this is a CC debt or something else, and you imply that you signed for something for a company that someone else owns. True?

If its a CC, then having the CC posted on your personal CR MAY make it subject to the FDCPA. Its really not clear from FTC rulings. But, the point is, most CAs are used to dealing strickly with personal debt and will abide by the FDCPA (assuming they would in their normal operations) anyway.

If its not a CC, and the attorney contacting you represent the creditor directly (rather than just a normal CA) you may have to defend yourself in court. You probably will need legal assistance because you'd need to sue the company that caused your problems in the first place (assuming you weren't in an ownership position).

[Mr. White]

You don't make it clear whether this is a CC debt or something else, and you imply that you signed for something for a company that someone else owns. True?

No, this isn't a CC debt. It's a lease/loan company debt. Originally the debt was 'owned' by the company that I worked for at that time. I did personally guarantee it though. So it is now 'owned' by me alone, since I was the only person to personally guarantee it and that the company I guaranteed it for is now desolved.

If its not a CC, and the attorney contacting you represent the creditor directly (rather than just a normal CA) you may have to defend yourself in court. You probably will need legal assistance because you'd need to sue the company that caused your problems in the first place (assuming you weren't in an ownership position).

It's not an attorney, it's a CA. Though, yes I'm sure I may have to go to court if it arises. As for the legal assistance and needing to sue the company that caused my problems in the first place. It's a bit difficult on that note. One, no, I did not have ownership in the company. Two, the owner of the company was and still is a very good friend of mine. (Never mix business with pleasure. I learned that first hand.) Three, the company is desolved, so I would be suing nobody. There is no company to sue. So what do ya' do.

Thanks for input buddy. I appreciate it. If you want to continue to contribute, please do so.

-Collins-

[Chancy949]

I'm going to stick my nose in really quick. Just on an ethics question not legal.

What does your friend think of all of this, the one that owned the company? Too bad... so sad?

now the legal....

I do small business consulting so I may be able to help in this case.

What EXACTLY was the debt for? Lease for what?

What is the amount of debt?

On the agreement that you signed does it have a clause for defaulting?

Getting SBO's out of trouble was what we did! The consultant that I was an apprentice for retired, but I still do stuff and run it by her. If I can help I will.

[Mr. White]

I'm going to stick my nose in really quick. Just on an ethics question not legal.

What does your friend think of all of this, the one that owned the company? Too bad... so sad?

well, it's not really a too bad, so sad issue. we have talked and he said if this goes to court he will pay for my attorney or help anyways. i knew the consequences of taking on this debt as a personal guarantee, i just happened to put my faith in something that didn't work out. BAD LUCK, i guess. also, below is a link that should have all the answers you need to your other questions. i posted a separate string in 'is there a lawyer in the house' because it seemed more on a legal basis, and i just assumed i would get reponses from attorneys or former attorneys, people who might have a better handle on the situation. my apologies for the bouncing back and forth.

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22317

What is the amount of debt?

does the amount of the debt matter at all? if so, why? pardon my not answering, but i would like to know the relevance if there is one or if you're just curious. sorry, i guess i'm a little paranoid.

On the agreement that you signed does it have a clause for defaulting?

I am not sure, i don't have the agreement/contract here with me. i will find it and get back to you on that. what is the basic clause for defaulting on a debt? is there one? does it matter if there is one?

thanks in advance.

-collins-

[willingtocope]

rcollins: I'm not an attorney, but I am a businessman, and I've been in the position of personally guranteeing (sp?) business loans...even some that weren't really mine.

Let me emphasize again, that unlike the "free advice" forum, you won't get belittled or put down here. Everyone does things that seem like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect may not have been the brightest light on the tree. God knows I have.

Amount of the equipment lease (is that what it is?) would help people to voice an opinion as to whether or not the creditor would actually follow through on the suit...or just try to hassle you for it. For example, when our business went belly up, I was not an owner, but had personnally signed as VP of Operations for a lease on a Xerox printer. When the company ceased operations there were still 6 months worth of payments totaling around $4,200 that Xerox wanted me, personally, to pay. Our corporate lawyer said it was unlikely that they would sue for that, but none the less recommended I file personal BK 7 just in case. My responsibility for the debt was discharged in the BK.

And, the default clause in the Xerox contract did indeed include language that said in effect "he who signs, will pay if the company doesn't" so that clause is significant.

And...a little paranoia is a good thing. There are CAs that lurk here, as well as people with their own agenda...so you're wise to be cautious.

[Mr. White]

reply to 'willingtocope'

Let me emphasize again, that unlike the "free advice" forum, you won't get belittled or put down here. Everyone does things that seem like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect may not have been the brightest light on the tree. God knows I have.

Yea, i went to that website one time and i got some grief about the topic, i also read several other topics in their forums and it never changed, people were just making fun of the other person and not really helping them. blew my mind. i was hoping that there might be some very knowledgable people there as well who would help and not ridicule. oh well.

Amount of the equipment lease (is that what it is?) would help people to voice an opinion as to whether or not the creditor would actually follow through on the suit...or just try to hassle you for it.

It was a loan/lease, when i put it that way i mean it like this. we got a 'loan' through a company, they needed some collateral equal to the loan value incase of default. they said we were basically 'leasing' our own equipment. this was my first 'loan' taken, so i more than likely missed some things here, which i kick myself for because i read that contract over and over, maybe i just didn't understand some things, i don't know. anyways, the loan was for $20k and this loan was taken for the purpose to withstand the business venture that we were encountering, hoping to get us through it. unfortunatley, that venture went south and so did the company. one payment was made on it and that was it. the debt has matured something ugly, i'd rather not mention it if the amount already given will help. let me know.

also, thanks for your comments regarding my paranoia. i don't like the fact that i have to be that way, but, concerning this matter in particular, i am.

thanks again and thanks in advance.

-collins-

[willingtocope]

Okay...I understand now. If I remember correctly, the equipment that was to be the collateral for the loan is now gone, right? Who got that money? If it was your friend, then you'll have to sue him...if it was the releasing company, then they've been paid and there should be no residual.

At any rate, I think I'd start (and buy some time) with a complete DV letter to the CA that's called you. Make THEM come up with the evidence that says this debt is yours, how they arrived at the amount, and that they are licensed to collect in your state. If you do wind up in court over this, you'll need the paper trail...

(And the amount of the debt jumped from $20k to something you don't want to talk about, there may be some wiggle room in the ultimate negotiations.)

[Chancy949]

Yes, the reasons I asked the questions were answered by "Willing". Trust his advice. I asked about the contract because it should/could state defaulting. Maybe this collection company isn't doing things that are legal. Maybe the company couldn't sell it to a collection company...? I don't know. just guessing because I don't know the terms and agreements of the loan.

I asked about the amount because it would tell us what steps you need to take. If you trust someone here, I would have them read the contract, if it could lead to some answers about what to do.

Your friend is willing to pay for an attorney IF you get sued?? no offense but what a pal. I'd have him pay for your attorney NOW to find out your rights. I don't know if you should look for a BK attorney, but I'd look for one in your area that is a Corporate attorney or knows Small Business. If your friend had a company then he SHOULD have an attorney. That attorney should know the situation and could best advise you. Maybe he could even settle this for you out of court.

JMHO

[Mr. White]

another long one!

ON A SIDE NOTE: he called today and i didn't answer the phone (was busy), so he called my parents back and left a message for them saying that he needs to talk to THEM, not me. if he is in fact just a CA rep., then he can't do that, right? actually, even as a lawyer i don't think he can contact them regarding the debt, can he? they're no way at all connected to this debt and i was of legal age when i entered the contract, so he should only be contacting me or my attorney(don't have one). do you think he's just being very gutsy with these hopeful 'bluffs' expecting me to pay up to stop him from doing that or is he stupid or what? i called him back later on and told him that he is not to contact my parents anymore and that he doesn't have that right. he retorted with a yelling voice, 'i do have that right and you would know that if you were an attorney for commercial law.' then he hung up after i asked if he was in fact an attorney, twice. what he said can be construed as misrepresentation from what i am reading of the FDCPA. also, his comment regarding it being commercial law? if it is a personal guarantee on a commercial debt, doesn't that turn it into an 'individual' debt, hence the word 'personal' in personal guarantee?!?! cause if it is a commercial debt, then i'm screwed regarding rights under the FDCPA, however, if it isn't, i want to exercise my rights. funny thing, he said i have 48 hrs from today to come up with the money (monday when i spoke with him he said i had until wednesday to make a payment, now i get an extension? what a nice guy!)

*shaking head*

i then called him back about 3 min. later and i got his voicemail. i left a message telling him my name and case # and such and that our conversation got cut off rather abrubtly due to his impatience or whathaveyou. i also mentioned that i was just wanting to ask him some questions since he was asking me questions. then i mentioned that he cannot contact my parents regarding this because they are a third party of the orignal debtor(me) and that if he contacts them again, that i will make sure this is a long drawn out process and that i was angry. (looks like the emotions took over there)again, i told him in the message to call my phone and not my parents. i was quite coshure with him throughout all calls, but this guy just went off on me because he didn't like my responses. *sigh* sorry about that stuff, i just wanted to update you guys since i think that will be my last call with him and that i am printing out DV and C&D letters as i am typing. also, if you have any good templates for those which cover ALL the DETAILS that should be covered, i would greatly appreciate it.

reply to 'willingtocope'

Okay...I understand now. If I remember correctly, the equipment that was to be the collateral for the loan is now gone, right? Who got that money? If it was your friend, then you'll have to sue him...if it was the releasing company, then they've been paid and there should be no residual.

The equipment was collateral for the loan, but it is now gone, i believe it was randomly sold, but not back to the creditor or CA. if you are referring the money from selling the equipment, i honestly don't know. maybe to pay off some other bills, not exactly sure. what do you mean sue my friend?

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reply to chancy949

Maybe this collection company isn't doing things that are legal. Maybe the company couldn't sell it to a collection company...?

I fail to understand this question you have here, sorry. if you wouldn't mind elaborating i would really appreciate it.

I don't know if you should look for a BK attorney, but I'd look for one in your area that is a Corporate attorney or knows Small Business. If your friend had a company then he SHOULD have an attorney. That attorney should know the situation and could best advise you. Maybe he could even settle this for you out of court.

I am considering BK but i don't want to act on it just yet. what would be recommended amount of debt to have to say 'FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY'?

Why a corporate attorney? we didn't have company attorneys, it was a start-up company that didn't last long, we couldn't afford company attorneys. but i am considering looking for attorneys here very soon, yes.

thanks for your help guys and any help that you may further give. and thanks for putting up with my LONG letters.

-collins-

[Mr. White]

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

i hope this isn't outdated.

[willingtocope]

Yep...real nice guy you're dealing with. Typical CA.

Truthfully, this IS a commercial debt, and even with a personal gurantee, its unclear as to whether FDCPA applies. All the things you describe him doing do indeed violate the FDCPA, but 1.) you need a phone recording to prove it'; and b.) it may not matter since its a commercial debt. It all boils down to the "least sophisticated consumer" clause...and the FTC's opinion that business people are supposed to be more sophisticated.

All can offer in regard to the FDCPA is that I did have some success scaring away some CAs by stating in writing in my DV letter that since they now considered this my personal debt I was invoking my right under the FDCPA and they had to play nice. So...I'd suggest you DV him, CMRRR, and see where that leads. Remember that most CAs (even lawyers) are used to dealing with people that just roll over. Standing up to them usually puts them off their game. On the other, DO IT IN WRITING...one thing they're all good at is verbal abuse and intimidation.

Now...as to suing your friend. Basically, by not being an owner of the company...and not being an official officer...you technically did not have the authority to sign contracts on behalf of the company. By forcing you (okay, so he asked you nicely) to personally gurantee this deal, your friend was asking you to do something you were not legally permitted to do. And then, by turning around and selling the collateral without paying off the lease/loan, he effectively put your finacial future in danger.

So, I'd suggest you set up an appointment with a business attorney and explain your situation...most will give an initial consultation for free. I think the real bottom line here is...as it standsnow...you are indeed liable for this money, and the only way you're going to get out of it is if your friend coughs it up...or you declare personal BK 7. Either way, I think you need to have the courts establish that your friend is the one liable for this debt.

And I think what Chancy was referring to is in the terms of the contract it may NOT say anything about what they can do if you default (other than retrieve the collateral). Again, this would be something to discuss with an attorney.

On the downside (based on my legal experiences) you're probably going to have a hard time getting a lawyer real interested in taking the case unless you can give them some money on retainer. You can however, usually get an hour or so up front free time and maybe get a better handle on where you stand.

[Chancy949]

I would tell your friend the time has come for him to cough up the money for the attorney for you.

They don't teach how to run a small business in college. There is an organization that does teach it now. Not many people know about them. I've been through their program and they are fabulous. I know a few really really good corp. attorneys through this organization. If you would like more information on that I will give it to you.

I asked the question about if they could sell to a collection company or whatever because sometimes when a company is lending to a start up, they will have certain things in the loan agreement because they know there is a higher risk. The loan contract could have been negotiated when it was signed, just wondering if it was. Since there were no attorneys involved, I would trust that it wasn't.

Did the original lender try to collect the debt from you? By selling of the colateral, was there a clause in the contract about that, what the ramifications would be? I'm just thinking of things that COULD have been in the contract. I'm trying to get the CA to leave you alone based on something I'm HOPING is in the contract. If it wasn't negoiated then it was writen in total favor of the lender. I've seen some funny things. I thought that contracts were contracts, but I've never seen my partner advise anyone to sign a "first draft" of a contract. She'd always maked "ballsy" changes and they usually changed it! I'm thinking of things she would have asked for and hoping you might have the same advantage.

[Mr. White]

ANOTHER SIDE NOTE: got a call this morning and it was a different guy this time after the last call/sidenote. this guy was very cordial and had a pleasant tone in his voice saying that he got the voicemail that i left the other guy and that he would like it if i call him, not the other guy, but him back and see if we can try to resolve this. all nice and everything. interesting enough, this same guy who is all nice on the message, was the same guy who called me the first day after i spoke with the original collecter, and this guy was making the same threat as the other guy, saying how the best i can do is pay them and avoid getting sued. nice tactic, but not really, no. now they're both calling me every hour i think. i'm not answering them because i CMRRR them today with a C&D and a DV letter. They should get it Monday, hopefully.

reply to 'willingtocope'

It all boils down to the "least sophisticated consumer" clause...and the FTC's opinion that business people are supposed to be more sophisticated.

Ok, could you go in depth a bit more on this subject, or tell me where i can go to read up on it? thanks!

Now...as to suing your friend. Basically, by not being an owner of the company...and not being an official officer...you technically did not have the authority to sign contracts on behalf of the company. By forcing you (okay, so he asked you nicely) to personally gurantee this deal, your friend was asking you to do something you were not legally permitted to do. And then, by turning around and selling the collateral without paying off the lease/loan, he effectively put your finacial future in danger.

Ok, i was an officer of the company, being that it was a corporation. i was not part owner in it, there were papers/stocks drawn up and signed but never submitted.

if you wouldn't mind giving me your email, i would like to send you a few documents and have you look at them if you don't mind. other than that, thanks as always.

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reply to chancy949

They don't teach how to run a small business in college. There is an organization that does teach it now. Not many people know about them. I've been through their program and they are fabulous. I know a few really really good corp. attorneys through this organization. If you would like more information on that I will give it to you.

This sounds really good, one for the initial problem i have, and two, i am thinking about going into business myself, but not for a few years. i've got the approach all lined out though. So, yea, if you wouldn't mind giving me any information regarding this organization you're referring to and any information regarding the attorneys.

I asked the question about if they could sell to a collection company or whatever because sometimes when a company is lending to a start up, they will have certain things in the loan agreement because they know there is a higher risk. The loan contract could have been negotiated when it was signed, just wondering if it was. Since there were no attorneys involved, I would trust that it wasn't.

Nope, no attorneys involved and no negotiation happened.

Did the original lender try to collect the debt from you? By selling of the colateral, was there a clause in the contract about that, what the ramifications would be?

yes, the original lender tried to collect on the debt. as for a clause regarding the collateral, i am not sure, i have not got the contract yet.

again thank you for your comments, as i hope we continue to go back in forth on this one until i see fit. hopefully it won't be all that long, the more i think about this entire thing, the more i think i might just file CH 7

either way, since this whole string has been merely us 3, i appreciate all the help you've given me thus far and for any future help you choose to give me.

-collins-

[willingtocope]

Well, since most folks on this forum tend to stay away from business related debt, its not unusual for only a couple to get involved.

The fact that a##hole #1 called you back playing nice is standard collection practices. Picture them all sitting in a big bull pen area talking on the phone at the same time...first thing in the morning, they draw straws to see who's going to be the good cop today. You're right to not get fooled by it. They are all people just trying to do a job that they get paid for...but NONE of them can be trusted. Trust ain't in the manual.

The "least sophisticated consumer" test is what the FTC uses to determine if the tactics that a collector uses would be miscontrued by someone. For example, saying "you could go to jail" is not true...but someone who didn't realize that debtor's prisons don't exist anymore wouldn't know that. And, as I said, business people are supposed to be aware of the law and their rights. I don't have a link to the exact letters, but if you go to www.ftc.gov and do a search on FDCPA you might find it.

And, I'll pm my email address to you...

[Mr. White]

ANOTHER SIDE NOTE: well, he called my parents again today and spoke with my mother. and i would like to you to read the 'script' that my mother wrote down for me, per my request. it goes something like this:

He asked for ME. She asked who was calling. he gave his name. she said she believes you've been told not to call this number again (by me & maybe by her). he said, do you know the law ma'am? she said, i know this isn't his number, it's mine and my husbands and i don't want you to call here again. he said, you don't care that your son's in trouble? she said, he's an adult, that's his problem. he said, wow, i wish i had a mom like you. she said, don't call here again. he said did you know your son owes my client X amount of dollars? she said, well, that's their problem and his but i don't want you to call here again. he hung up before she could finish talking.

Now, tell me he can not tell her how much i owe his client. tell me i'm right about that. please?!??!

yea, i sort of figured that they were working in tandom with eachother. not a bad idea for them, but i'm not that stupid. i might have been stupid enough to put myself in this problem, but i'm not stupid enough to fall for their BS!

-collins

[Chancy949]

Deff time to get an attorney. I think once you get an attorney he can't talk to anyone but the attorney. I'm not sure about the collector end. We always ended up being the go between the collector and the small business owner. my partner was a BBB arbitrator, so it was very benificial for our clients, her experience.

Start taping the calls too.

[Mr. White]

so it's been a while since i posted last, my apologies. i just got wrapped up in this whole scenario. i'll try to give a brief summary over what has happened since last post. i sent C&D and DV letters, they still continue to call me, my parents, and left messages stating that they would call my friends and my grandparents and such. so as you can see it has been not so fun for all of us. i've left a message on some lawyers voicemail waiting for a callback, until then i'm still waiting. i've been told by this CA that the letters meant nothing, and that they can call everyday if they want and they can call whoever they want. i haven't talked to them since before my mailing of the letters and i don't intend to. i am just keeping the messages they leave and trying to keep tabs of who else they call and when and the nature of the call and such. this is very depressing sh*t, this is what i get for believing in a friend...a company.

i don't know if anyone knows of a forum like this but covers the business end, do they? basically , i just want to know what the worst case scenario is going to be, you know? prison? bankruptcy? what?

Mr. White

[willingtocope]

There is a forum at http://forum.freeadvice.com/ where they do have a discussion group about Business Bankruptcy. Unfortuneatly, the moderators and many of the posters there tend to be smart asses and don't really help much.

Prison ain't gonna happen. Even our legal system doesn't do that.

BK may still be your best option to protect your personal assets from this business related debt.

I assume you sent the letters CMRRR...did you get the green card back yet? If not, maybe they haven't received them yet. And, as I've said before, the FDCPA doesn't actually protect you from this kind of stuff...

[Mr. White]

yea i was thinking about that forum, but you're right about the smartasses! eh, i don't know. i might try it, we'll see. also, the only reason i bring up the prison comment is because i could see this being construed as 'fraud' or some sort of white collar crime since the collateral was sold off but not to the creditor or the CA and they only received one payment. those two things there just have me convinced that it is possible. but, if am wrong, please please tell me so. however, i will still feel better when i hear it from a lawyer, but, nontheless, it sounds nice to think it. yea, i will probably file a bk nonetheless no matter how this turns out, but that also depends on whether this debt will be discharged along with my personal debt in the BK. yea i did the CMRRR routine, i got my green card back, also have one of the CA reps. leaving a message telling me they got them but that they don't matter. and i assumed this much about the FDCPA.

however, when i talk to a lawyer, hopefully they will get back to me soon. i plan to share the knowledge with you guys. so this way everybody will learn something from my mishap.

again, thanks as always

Mr. White

[willingtocope]

I think they'd have a very tough time making a case for fraud against YOU. Not your company, not your responsiblity to sign for the equipment lease, not your signature on the check, not you that sold the equipment.

See what your lawyer says...

Really, really is time to take your friend to task over this...

[Mr. White]

what about them talking about coming to pick up the equipment even though there is none? can they come to my residence and look for it there? my residence is now the same as my parents, unfornately, due to this TERRIBLE year, i had to either move back home or be homeless. so i opted to live there, but anyways, since i live there with them, does that give them right to come there if they do and look for equipment? i don't think they realize that it is my residence, however i did CMRRR the letters with that address. so i don't know if they'll put 2 and 2 together or not.

Mr. White

DIE ALL COLLECTION AGENCIES!!!