Question for the Repo Experts

[Guest]

Friend moved to NY from different state.

Had car repo'd by Ford Motor Credit.. 2 months behind.

Investigator shows up at house, flashes badge to friends of hers, tells her he is an investigator from Ford Motor Credit. They go upstairs and get her and she comes down.

Car is parked in front of 2 other cars. She says "I dont think I want to give you the car".

Investigator tells her he will call the police because it is a felony in the state of NY to bring a security interest across state lines. He tells her they will call police and she can go to jail. Of course she doesnt wanna go to jail and she relents.

She gives them car.. but her friends insist that the repo guys get off of their property.. Repo guys threaten the friend's friends and insist they have keys to the car before they will leave property.

She gives them the car.. 2 guys.. 3 people in tow truck. 1 of them is one repo dude's girlfriend/wife.

She makes them give a written statement they picked up the car.

Now.. car is joint with her ex sweetie. The ex has been getting all her mail at his address even after she informed (3 months earlier) Ford she had a different address.

NY law states that a notice must be sent certified mail or delivered in person to the owner within 24 hours after they pick up car. They did not do this.

Ford also sent Notice of Intent to sell to her Ex... when they obviously have her last known address of New York.

So do you guys think violations on this or is she out of luck.

And do the laws where she WAS LIVING apply or the laws where she lived when she bought the car.

Any help is appreciated as always!!!

[DocDon]

When did this happen?

I certainly hope it wasn't after my lengthy posts about repo agents carrying fake police badges.....

The car was taken under duress. Illegally by repo men carrying fake police badges.

Ford Motor Credit is not authorized to issue police style badges. This is a Federal Violation.

The UCC states a repo must be done without a breach of the peace. Go back and look at the old repo post we spent so much time on.

At the very least they should file a police report for being flashed a fake police badge. If the local police don't want to do squat file with the state and the FBI. Again - displaying a fake police style badge is now a Federal crime.

Then they sue to get the car back plus punative damages for violating the UCC, and the FDCPA. I have about 100 cases I can give you.

[Guest]

I remember all that.. my problem is with the whole being out of state from where she signed the papers and such.

She had not informed Ford that she moved out of state, just of her last address... of course she had not been moved into the state of NY for very long at all when this occured.. about 11 days.

Would all NY laws still apply?

And how should she go about fighting this.. inform Ford or wait til they try and sue her or what?

[DocDon]

The guy impersonated a law enforcement officer and repossessed the vehicle while committing a breach of the peace.

The repossession is illegal and the repo company and Ford Motor are now both liable.

File a police report.

[Guest]

Will call and let her know.

Should she tell police that she thought he was a police officer or just that he threatened to have her put in jail?

This happened last Tues night.

I want to give her a heads up before we go there.

Thanks

[DocDon]

The Supreme Court reasoned that the duty of a creditor to repossess peaceably under the provisions of the UCC was non-delegable and the creditor was liable for the actions of a repossessor even if the repossessor was acting as an independent contractor. In addition the Court held the creditor was vicariously liable for punitive damages for the actions of the repossessor retained by the creditor and stated it was the responsibility of a secured creditor to make sure the party it hires acts within the law while repossessing the collateral.

http://www.bankersonline.com/lending/breach.html

About the fake cop:

Enhanced Federal Security Act of 2000, clearly forbids the use of facsimile badges by unauthorized individuals. More specifically:

Sec. 716. Police badges [illegal use of](2) the term 'counterfeit police badge' means a badge that so resembles a police badge that it would deceive an ordinary individual into believing it was a genuine police badge.

He had no authority to flash a fake police badge, nor as a TOW TRUCK DRIVER, did he have the authority to "have her arrested". I had already stated numerous times that police cannot get directly involved in a repossession.

GO GET 'EM!

Can you tell this is one topic that really burns me up?

[Guest]

Yeah I can tell.

The good thing is she has witnesses that he flashed the badge and that he threatened to have her arrested... 3 witnesses to be exact.

What exactly should she tell the police.. that the car was repo'd illegally?

I know.. stupid questions but I want her to do this the right way so she can nail them.

Also.. does anyone know what the ramifications are when moving from one state to another which states laws apply??

Here is all I could find in the statutes

Out of State Vehicles If a vehicle is subject to a security interest when brought into this state, the validity of the security interest is determined by the law of the jurisdiction where the vehicle was when the security interest attached, subject to the very specific rules contained in Title 10A46 Section 2118

If New York state laws apply they have already broken 2 or 3 of them.

Notify Police of Repossession of Motor Vehicle Any person, firm or corporation, or agent, employee or representative thereof, repossessing or retaking a motor vehicle or motorcycle pursuant to the provisions of article nine of the uniform commercial code, or other authority of law, or any contract or agreement, shall, immediately following such repossession or retaking, personally appear at a station house or other office of the police department, or agency or officer performing like functions, in the locality wherein such repossession or retaking occurred, give notice to such department, agency or officer of such repossession or retaking. Title 4A17 Section 425 (New York Assembly: Title 4A17 )

Plates To Office, Notice To Owner In addition, this person must, within twenty-four hours, personally deliver or mail by special delivery first class mail to the nearest motor vehicle district office, notice of such repossession or retaking on approved form, and the license plates of vehicle or motorcycle. Notice of the repossession or retaking, including name and address of person, firm or corporation repossessing or retaking same, must also be given within twenty-four hours to owner of motor vehicle or motorcycle, either personally or by registered or certified mail directed to owner at his last-known address. Title 4A17 Section 425

Without Breach of Peace Unless the motor vehicle or motorcycle can be repossessed or retaken without breach of the peace, it must be repossessed or retaken by legal process, but nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize a violation of the criminal law. Title 4A17 S 425 (New York Assembly: Title 4A17 )

Thanks again

[DocDon]

She should tell the police she was shown a fake police badge and threatened with arrest by an unauthorized individual.

This is also a violation of the FDCPA on the part of the tow truck driver (repo man). Use of an "official seal" and making threats (arrest) that they cannot or do not intend to follow through with.

[Guest]

Friend filed police report.

The repo agent DID NOT go to the PD as required by NY law and let them know they had taken the car.

They did NOT notify her in writing within 24 that they had repo'd the car and for who (even though she knew)) as required by NY law.

The police said she can file a criminal complaint for harrassment since he threatened to have her thrown in jail and threatened the other people that were there.

He is also checking into the laws on the badge.. at first they told her it was ok that he had a badge cause anyone can get one and she said.. But he never said he wasn't a cop... He said he was an investigator... her friend ran upstairs and told her it was the police.. the cop said "Well that can change things"

She has 3 witnesses to all this.

Police detectives will be calling her next week to get more info and witness statements.

[DocDon]

That's what I figured. They don't know the law. NY was one the main reasons these laws were passed. Anyone at one time could simply order an authentic NYPD police badge. They still can, illegally....

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 33 - EMBLEMS, INSIGNIA, AND NAMES

Sec. 716. Police badges

(a) Whoever -

(1) knowingly transfers, transports, or receives, in interstate

or foreign commerce, a counterfeit police badge;

(2) knowingly transfers, in interstate or foreign commerce, a

genuine police badge to an individual, knowing that such

individual is not authorized to possess it under the law of the

place in which the badge is the official badge of the police;

(3) knowingly receives a genuine police badge in a transfer

prohibited by paragraph (2); or

(4) being a person not authorized to possess a genuine police

badge under the law of the place in which the badge is the

official badge of the police, knowingly transports that badge in

interstate or foreign commerce,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 6

months, or both.

( It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that the

badge is used or is intended to be used exclusively -

(1) as a memento, or in a collection or exhibit;

(2) for decorative purposes;

(3) for a dramatic presentation, such as a theatrical, film, or

television production; or

(4) for any other recreational purpose.

© As used in this section -

(1) the term ''genuine police badge'' means an official badge

issued by public authority to identify an individual as a law

enforcement officer having police powers; and

(2) the term ''counterfeit police badge'' means an item that so

resembles a police badge that it would deceive an ordinary

individual into believing it was a genuine police badge.

Add to that the Enhanced Federal Security Act of 2000....

Licensure for PI's in NY:

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lcns/pifaq.html

Licensing laws for PI's:

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lcns/lawbooks/pibeawgpa.html

[Guest]

Yeah.. I kinda figured that they werent aware of the law.. but hey I can give this to her to show the detectives when they go to talk to her next week.

I just wish she could go after Ford withouth having to wait for them to sue her or without an attorney.

Any ideas?????

[DocDon]

She doesn't have to wait for Ford to sue her, but I certainly wouldn't do this without an attorney. Given the amount of damages awarded in cases like hers, she may be able to find representation on a contingency basis...

Don't forget the "least sophisticated consumer" in all this.... there was a police-style badged flashed and the threat of jail time...

[Guest]

After reading that law... I dont think it will hold water.

The badge that he showed her friend was star shaped which is NOT like the PD badges that the police use here in New York and that law only states it is illegal to have or transport or receive one that LOOKS like a police badge.

This one MIGHT have resembled the sherriffs badge but I dont know.. I havent seen one.

However the detective called her and said that he reamed the repo agents a new a$$ and have told them they are a breath away from prosecution if they dont have the paperwork to them by Monday.

She has been told that they can file a criminal complaint against them for the threats but the detective seemed to kinda blow her off.

Detective says she needs to call Ford and tell them they better bring the car back since it was repossessed illegally.

I dont know if that would hold any weight.

Would you guys advise calling Ford or just letting it go and try ing to find an attorney?????

[DocDon]

There's hundreds of different designs for law enforcement badges. It's still considred a police badge. It doesn't have to look like the badge of your local law enforcement agency to be a violation. NYPD have custom bagdes as does New Orleans. You can order any template design and have whatever wording you want on it.

Don't overanalyze it. It was a police badge and it was illegal to show it.

(1) the term ''genuine police badge'' means an official badge

issued by public authority to identify an individual as a law

enforcement officer having police powers; and

(2) the term ''counterfeit police badge'' means an item that so

resembles a police badge that it would deceive an ordinary

individual into believing it was a genuine police badge.

Also, look at section 84 of the PI law I gave you:

It is unlawful for a licensed private investigator or bail enforcement agent to own, have or possess or in any manner to wear, exhibit or display, a shield or badge of any material, kind, nature or description, in the performance of any of the activities as private investigator or bail enforcement agent, as distinguished from watch, guard or patrol agency, under this article. It is unlawful for a licensed private investigator or bail enforcement agent to issue to any person employed by such licensee, a badge or shield of any material, kind, nature or description, and it is unlawful for any person employed by such licensee to possess, carry or display a badge or shield of any description provided that any licensed private investigator or bail enforcement agent who also engages in the business of watch, guard or patrol agency may possess, use or display or issue to employees in the conduct of such business, a rectangular metal or woven insignia to be worn on the outer clothing and approved by the Department of State, which insignia shall not be larger than three inches high or four inches wide with an inscription thereon containing the word “watchman”, “guard,” “patrol” or “special service” and the name of the licensee.