Help needed with Medical Collection

[GolfinDave]

Ever dealt with a company called ARC in Augusta Ga? Not very nice people. Actually they tried to lie to me and that has made me mad . A Supervisor tried to tell me that it is up to the CRA to “decide” when or even if an item is to be removed. But if you go ahead and pay they may do that for you. I did get pissed and tell her I am not an idiot. She hung up. I called back and talked to her supervisor and she was just as rude and said “I doubt Mrs German told you that”. Later in the discussion she accidentally ripped the phone out the wall or something because we somehow got disconnected. Anyways I am here: I need to know how to take care of this. I called the actual Physical Therapist office and he is out until after the New Year. He is a small business with just him and 4 employees. Here is the chorological:

02/03- Physical Therapy Visit

07/03- Bill for 173.00

Called PT about bill they said claim had not processed yet just disregard

09/03-New bill 63.00

Called PT they said it was accurate and I should pay

I did not

10/03- Letter from Cigna Insurance showing adjustment of 30.00

Bal Due 0.00

11/03- Bill from PT for 35.00

Called them said Cigna Said 0.00 She said she would check into it and call me back

Never called me back or left any message

02/04- Volunteered to serve an out-of-state reserve unit until 08/04

09/04- Back Home

12/20/04- Pulled my credit report online with Equifax – Doh!

12/21 – Called the collection agency

*not nice people the agent told me she would check with her supervisor about removing it from my report if I paid. The Supervisor got on the line and told me if I go ahead and pay it Equifax may remove it for me. I told her it was up to them not Equifax and that she was lying. Things went downhill from there.

12/21 – Called the Doctors office and talked to a very nice office mgr but she said she does not deal with the collection agency the owner does. She told me that the bill was a $20 copay which I thought I paid and a $15 noshow fee plus the collection agency fee.

Advice PLEASE

[c m chase]

First of all, stop talking to them on the phone. The ONLY thing that gets you is more angry!

Send the CA a validation letter...do a search on here for examples. Tell them you want them to ONLY contact you by mail and to not call your home or place of business. (This way you have everything stupid Ms. German says IN WRITING)

As soon as the CA gets the letter, send the CRAs a dispute letter saying you don't recognize this collection account. This way, if the CA verified with the CRAs, it's $1000 fine that you can bargain with.

When the doctor gets back into town, give him a call. Ask if the account has been assigned or sold, and if it's assigned, you'd like to settle the matter with them directly. Say you overlooked it, got messed up with Cigna, whatever...just be super sugar nice about it.

If the account has been assigned and he says he will settle with you directly, send a letter to him stating that you will pay the full amount (it's just $35, right?) if and only if the account is removed from the files of the CA and will be considered fully satisfied. Get that agreement in writing.

If he says it's been sold, you have to deal with the CA directly. Don't believe a word they say and get everything in writing. Did they ever send you collection letters? If you have those letters, keep them...you may be able to use them later.

*whew* Did I miss anything?

[gprncss]

Well said CM Case! You covered all angles

[DocDon]

$20? It probably cost our mental giant more to collect than the amount itself. I would find another doctor. This one doesn't sound too smart.

Same issue as before, or different OC?

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22617

[c m chase]

I'll answer that. It's a different OC...sounds like Dave has several medical things. The first two he was talking about were for a hospital (when his son was born) and a dentist. This one is physical therapy.

I win. 8)

[DocDon]

O.k. same issue (pay for delete medical collection), different OC.

Give back half the award money.

[GolfinDave]

DocDon or anyone who can advise me,

I don’t understand why my credit score is where it is but at this point I don’t care. If they are going to use an automated credit scoring system then I will try to manipulate it to get my score to an acceptable level. My objective is to get an equity mortgage for 125% of my homes value. That is somewhere around $65,000. I already have about 10 to 15K in appreciation equity over the 7 months I lived here, wheeeeeee. I am going to pay off my truck and buy a new car plus put a room on to my house with the money. With that said how do I go from 620 to 680 ( that is a number Ditech gave me as the min to qualify for the 125% loan)

[ViktorVaughn]

First of all, stop talking to them on the phone. The ONLY thing that gets you is more angry!

Send the CA a validation letter...do a search on here for examples. Tell them you want them to ONLY contact you by mail and to not call your home or place of business. (This way you have everything stupid Ms. German says IN WRITING)

As soon as the CA gets the letter, send the CRAs a dispute letter saying you don't recognize this collection account. This way, if the CA verified with the CRAs, it's $1000 fine that you can bargain with.

he seems to acknowledge the debt, so why go through this step?

When the doctor gets back into town, give him a call. Ask if the account has been assigned or sold, and if it's assigned, you'd like to settle the matter with them directly. Say you overlooked it, got messed up with Cigna, whatever...just be super sugar nice about it.

whether the account has been assigned or sold is irrelevant. if it was "assigned" there is a contract regarding how the account will be handled. 9 times out of 10, said contract does not give the original creditor the authority to negotiate a settlement once the account has been "assigned". (though, many creditors ignore this and settle anyways...sometimes, but not usually. when this happens, the collection agency doesn't have to accept the settlement, though they usually do to keep their client happy)

If the account has been assigned and he says he will settle with you directly, send a letter to him stating that you will pay the full amount (it's just $35, right?) if and only if the account is removed from the files of the CA and will be considered fully satisfied. Get that agreement in writing.

see above response.

my advice? pay your bill? also, never assume that a debt is taken care of because someone in a billing office says they will "take care of it". especially if they never call you back. simply stay on it and see it through until the balance is zero. simple.

[DocDon]

he seems to acknowledge the debt, so why go through this step?

Because you never deal with a CA over the phone. In fact, all financial transactions should be done in writing.

whether the account has been assigned or sold is irrelevant.

I must disagree. There is quite a difference between an account be sold and an account being assigned to a third party CA.

Further, many CA's ask the OC how "agressive" they should behave toward the debtor. I've posted 2 such forms already.

There is nothing preventing the OC from recalling a collection (it was in error... whoops).

my advice? pay your bill? also, never assume that a debt is taken care of because someone in a billing office says they will "take care of it". especially if they never call you back. simply stay on it and see it through until the balance is zero. simple.

That's what we're helping him do. Pay the bill to the OC and have them recall the collection. I agree with you 100% that you should stay on top your finances - which is also why you should never strike a deal with a CA over the phone.

[ViktorVaughn]

one more thing. some of the responses here seem to have the goal of being uncooperative with the collection agency. i wouldn't advise that if you're trying to get something deleted.

you may call a collection agency, rant for several minutes and make demands, and then wonder "why won't they delete this for me?" once the call has ended.

you would be suprised how cooperative a collection agency will be if you simply don't make demands, threaten legal, demaned written proof of a bill you already acknowledge you owe, simply to be a hassel.

call them, be professional, don't give orders, explain your goal, ask them if there is anything they can do to help you get there. people who work at collection agencies, believe it or not, are people to. they aren't brainwashed to be jerks upon hiring. you can do business with them just as you can with anyone else in this world.

[ViktorVaughn]

I must disagree. There is quite a difference between an account be sold and an account being assigned to a third party CA.

Further, many CA's ask the OC how "agressive" they should behave toward the debtor. I've posted 2 such forms already.

There is nothing preventing the OC from recalling a collection (it was in error... whoops).

"if it was in error" is the key phrase there. a creditor does not have the authority to simply pull an account back from a 3rd party agency..."unless it was turned over in error". they also don't have the authority to settle on an account that has been turned over. (9 times out of 10).

[DocDon]

Viktor, you're not the first CA who has been a member, and certainly not the last.

Your insight is appreciated, but incorrect.

[DocDon]

one more thing. some of the responses here seem to have the goal of being uncooperative with the collection agency. i wouldn't advise that if you're trying to get something deleted.

you may call a collection agency, rant for several minutes and make demands, and then wonder "why won't they delete this for me?" once the call has ended.

you would be suprised how cooperative a collection agency will be if you simply don't make demands, threaten legal, demaned written proof of a bill you already acknowledge you owe, simply to be a hassel.

call them, be professional, don't give orders, explain your goal, ask them if there is anything they can do to help you get there. people who work at collection agencies, believe it or not, are people to. they aren't brainwashed to be jerks upon hiring. you can do business with them just as you can with anyone else in this world.

Here's a better idea - how about the CA follow the FDCPA and not try to "pull one over" on the consumer?

This is an age-old debate my friend.

[ViktorVaughn]

my advice? pay your bill? also, never assume that a debt is taken care of because someone in a billing office says they will "take care of it". especially if they never call you back. simply stay on it and see it through until the balance is zero. simple.

That's what we're helping him do. Pay the bill to the OC and have them recall the collection. I agree with you 100% that you should stay on top your finances - which is also why you should never strike a deal with a CA over the phone.

this is very true. where i work, i would say that at least 50% of all accounts we recieve end up here due to the debtor assuming someone in the original creditor's billing office would get the debt "taken care of".

[Recovering Attorney]

It is very difficult to get CA to do anything for you, unless you catch them by the short hairs. For this small stuff, it is better to go to the OC and make a good will argument and ask them to tell the CA to delete it. They have that power and should use it for you as their customer.

[ViktorVaughn]

Here's a better idea - how about the CA follow the FDCPA and not try to "pull one over" on the consumer?

This is an age-old debate my friend.

not every collection agency is good. nor is every agency bad.

the same goes for debtors. not every debtor is a victim.

all i'm saying is this: if each time you begin to deal with a collection agency, you go into the process with the mindset that the collection agency is trying to "pull one over on you" and you then in turn try to "pull one over on them", you may not be pleased with your results in the long run.

if you have a debt on your credit, simply call the collection agency and talk to them about it calmly and convey to them that you would like to take care of your debt. assuming you don't make demands and try to be a hassel, odds are they will help you out.

i see all the different approaches people take when dealing with collectoin agencies on a daily basis. those on this website tend to focus on one approach: be as big a hassle and as uncooperative as possible with all collection agencies, because they all break the rules of the FDCPA.

from first hand experience, those who take that approach usually end up wasting quite a bit more time and energy on cleaning up their credit than people who simply give me a call and say "say, viktorvaughn, i just pulled my credit and i'm not sure what this is, can you send me an itemized bill? yeah? thanks" or "say, i just pulled my credit and would like to settle, and possibly have this completely deleted, do you think you can help me?"

[ViktorVaughn]

Viktor, you're not the first CA who has been a member, and certainly not the last.

Your insight is appreciated, but incorrect.

you're probably right. i merely do this for a living.

[c m chase]

While everything sounds nice and calm and zen with YOU, Viktor....this isn't the case with every CA....and obviously isn't the case with the CA Dave is dealing with. They've already proven their stance.

he seems to acknowledge the debt, so why go through this step?

When Dave tried to contact the CA, they lied right off the bat. Now they're saying they have the legal right to collect this debt. How would he know they aren't lying again unless he goes through the steps?

whether the account has been assigned or sold is irrelevant. if it was "assigned" there is a contract regarding how the account will be handled. 9 times out of 10, said contract does not give the original creditor the authority to negotiate a settlement once the account has been "assigned". (though, many creditors ignore this and settle anyways...sometimes, but not usually. when this happens, the collection agency doesn't have to accept the settlement, though they usually do to keep their client happy)

You just reiterated what I said. It's very possible if the account was assigned that the OC will accept a settlement. That way this collection agency won't get their grubby little hands on the mulah.

one more thing. some of the responses here seem to have the goal of being uncooperative with the collection agency. i wouldn't advise that if you're trying to get something deleted.

you would be suprised how cooperative a collection agency will be if you simply don't make demands, threaten legal, demaned written proof of a bill you already acknowledge you owe, simply to be a hassel.

Yes...when Dave called up the CA to pay and ask to have the tradeline removed, he was blatently lied to and hung up on. Wow....how cooperative.

Dave, get your DVs out. Contact the OCs and see if they can/will settle the account.

Your right, Viktor...not all debtors are victims...and Dave isn't claiming to be victim. That's why we're telling him to contact OC to pay the debts. Enjoy.

[DocDon]

this is very true. where i work, i would say that at least 50% of all accounts we recieve end up here due to the debtor assuming someone in the original creditor's billing office would get the debt "taken care of".

Especially in medical billing. The bulk of mystery charges, double charges, erroneous collections seem to come from medical facilites. I guess all those late-night commercials on how to become a medical biller are getting a lot of responses.

[DocDon]

Viktor, you're going to defend CA's until your last breath. As I said, that's fine. We've been there, done that.

Besides, we do just fine with the advice we give out.

[ViktorVaughn]

You just reiterated what I said. It's very possible if the account was assigned that the OC will accept a settlement. That way this collection agency won't get their grubby little hands on the mulah.

i don't see how i reiterated anything you said.

you advised him to work out a settlement with the original creditor.

i pointed out the fact that once an account has been assigned with a 3rd party collection agency, there is a contract that prevents the original creditor from authorizing a settlement. (opposite of what you said).

i DID say, however, that sometimes (not usually, but sometimes) the original creditor disregards said contract and settles anyway. (usually creditors who turn over a high volume of accounts do this, because they know a collection agency will not jeopardize losing that much business over one mere settlement).

Yes...when Dave called up the CA to pay and ask to have the tradeline removed, he was blatently lied to and hung up on. Wow....how cooperative.

when a debt is paid after it was been reported as a bad debt, that debt is to remain on one's credit report until 7 years from the date of service have elapsed (we're talking about med bills here).

when you call a collection agency and ask them to completely delete a paid collection, you're doing more than asking them to cooperate...you're asking for a favor. now personally, when i ask favors of people, i do it politely. amazingly, i've been granted more favors taking this approach than i have when i say "do this for me or i will sue!!"

Your right, Viktor...not all debtors are victims...and Dave isn't claiming to be victim. That's why we're telling him to contact OC to pay the debts. Enjoy.

right, and hopefully (for his sake) he doesn't take your advice. didn't he say he's trying to get a mortgage? i can't even begin to tell you how many times i get called by people in his situation who take that route and then end up calling me saying "viktorvaughn, i paid this to the original creditor, why is this still on my credit? i'm trying to close and i need this marked as paid today!!!!"

well, since the collection agency is the one who reports to the credit bureau, one's credit report will not be updated until the collection agency recieves, or is notifed of, payment for an account.

going back to the original creditor (as backwards as this may seem) creates a new "middle man" when you're trying to get your credit cleaned as fast as possible in order to close on a home.

[ViktorVaughn]

Viktor, you're going to defend CA's until your last breath. As I said, that's fine. We've been there, done that.

Besides, we do just fine with the advice we give out.

again, i'm not defending collection agencies, i'm offering an alternative approach to dealing with them. that being, don't assume they're all out to get you.

[c m chase]

THAT, Dave, is why you want the OC to agree to the point that they'll retract the account from the CA's hands. It works that way...I've done it.

*yawn* Ever notice how talking to a brick wall makes one extrememly tired?

Dave...do what you want. But keep in mind the motives here. And keep in mind how many times this works for those on the board.

[DocDon]

again, i'm not defending collection agencies, i'm offering an alternative approach to dealing with them. that being, don't assume they're all out to get you.

Understand completely. Yes, there are some great CA's out there, but they are too few in number.

Until the crackdown on rogue CA's balances the playing field more, I have to suggest thinking the worst. What would you do if you didn't know whether a snake was poisonous? Assume it is? Or assume it isn't?

[ViktorVaughn]

THAT, Dave, is why you want the OC to agree to the point that they'll retract the account from the CA's hands. It works that way...I've done it.

i think you're missing the point here.

let's say dave is closing on his home today.

let's say dave has an account on his credit, and he decides to deal with the original creditor instead of the collection agency.

let's say dave pays the account to the original creditor.

what has he accoplished? nothing, until the original creditor reports payment to the collection agency. does this happen every day and hold up closings? you bet.

let's try your scenario now:

dave is trying to get a mortgage.

dave pays the original creditor, who also agrees to retract the collection.

daves credit still shows an unpaid debt and his closing is delayed. why? he didn't deal with the entity that is preventing him from closing to begin with.

either way, you will eventually have to tend to the entity that is preventing you from doing whatever it is you're trying to do. the collection agency is that entity in this case.

you may think you're right and that you're talking to a brick wall, but as i've said before, i see this on a daily basis, and the advice you're giving dave will only slow down the process.

also, i'm not sure why you mentioned any motives here. the account he is talking about paying is old (to old to be pulled back from a collection agency as if it were an error). whether it is paid to the OC or the CA, the CA will inevitably recieve their share. the only difference is, dave's credit will take a bit longer to update by paying the OC. (but for all other parties, the outcome is exactly the same).

eh...i'm wrong though.