sdc2027 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 I dv a medical ca and they sent an itemized list of the charges and the line that says "This is a communication from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt."Two questions: What is the SOL for medical debt, if any?Are they allowed to collect when responding to the DV?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I dv a medical ca and they sent an itemized list of the charges and the line that says "This is a communication from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt."Two questions: What is the SOL for medical debt, if any?Are they allowed to collect when responding to the DV?ThanksSOL depends on your state.Once they sent verification, they can collect all they want. You can send them a cease communication/refusal to pay letter though. If they contact you after that attmepting to collect, sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc2027 Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Is it possible to pay the hospital instead of the CA with all their interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 I'm not sure what this Adminpp person is spewing but when a debtor asks for VALIDATION.. the collector must obtain it... they dont just have to cough up verification.I can write an statement saying that Adminppdotcom owes Sky Warner $4500 and give a few dates and balance.Ya gonna pay me?Cause if you are I will get to writing that statement up now.Validation and verification are different.. once the debtor asks for VALIDATION it is a whole new ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm not sure what this Adminpp person is spewing but when a debtor asks for VALIDATION.. the collector must obtain it... they dont just have to cough up verification.I can write an statement saying that Adminppdotcom owes Sky Warner $4500 and give a few dates and balance.Ya gonna pay me?Cause if you are I will get to writing that statement up now.Validation and verification are different.. once the debtor asks for VALIDATION it is a whole new ballgame.There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of post on the internet about "Validation." But there still seems to be a lot of confusion about just what "Validation" is."Validation is an informal process to conserve judicial resources" - NCLC FDCPA 2004 "Validation" is a PROCESS. Validation is not "proof", it is not documents, it is a process. "Validation" is the process through which a consumer can request VERIFICATION of a debt. In NO WAY does the validation process "Validate" or otherwise prove the legal status of a debt. Only a trior of fact (court) can establish this. Additionally, the word "validation" appears ONLY ONCE in the FDCPA, and it's a TITLE.PROPER VALIDATION:A common arguement is what constitutes "proper" verification. The definition of verification has never been established in stone. Congress, in enacting 15 USC 1692g (FDCPA 809) (the statute which establishes the "validation" right) never defined it either.Perhaps the best working definition of [proper] verification is from the National Consumer Law Center (NCLC). The NCLC is considred the authority on consumer law, including Debt Collection and Credit Reporting. The NCLC manual on Fair Debt Collection states "A Debt Collector Verifies a Debt by Providing Information That Is Responsive to the Consumer's Request. Verification requirements vary depending upon the reason for the dispute over the alleged debt. For example, a consumer claiming mistaken identity as a debtor needs very different verification than a consumer claiming full or uncredited payments or no contract because of lack of acceptance, or delivery, or breach of warranty. " -NCLC FDCPA 2004 Simply put, if you request verification of a debt, you should be VERY SPECIFIC as to what you are requesting verification of/for.Additionally, the FTC has generally refused requests to provide a definitive position on what information is sufficient to verify a debt under 15 U.S.C. § 1692g (FDCPA 809), given the variety of possible transactions and disputes, However, the FTC has indicated that where the dispute involved:-the mistaken identity of the debtor, a copy of the note and mortgage along with a statement of principal, interest and other charges may be sufficient.-the amount of the debt, the collector must verify the amount.The FTC staff believes a copy of a judgment may verify a debt, but there could still be issues of the identity of the judgment debtor or the validity of the judgment. So a request for verification involving a judgement, like ALL requests for verificaiton, should be very specific.If we look back into the CHAUDHRY v GALLERIZZO case, you will see that CHAUDHRY sent a request for [validation] verification in reposnse to a "collection letter" from the bank. The request for verification was for the balance claimed due on their loan, including principal, interest, costs, and attorney fees.In response to the request, the bank checked its records and verified the amounts due. They were unable to give an exact amount of the costs and fees because "... legal fees were not due and payable at the time the notices were sent."CHAUDHRY argued that because there was no exact amount of the attorney fees listed, the bank did no provide proper verification of the debt and therefore violated 15USC 1692g(a) (FDCPA 809). for not disclosing (a) (1) The amount of the debt.CHAUDHRY's lost their case. The court ruled that IN THIS CASE, UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, the bank provided [proper] verification because it was "responsive to the consumers request." But each and every case is different. Debt collectors cannot take this ruling and apply it to EVERY response to a consumer's request for verification. Likewise, consumers cannot use the Wollman Opinion letter in every validation request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm not sure what this Adminpp person is spewing but when a debtor asks for VALIDATION.. the collector must obtain it... they dont just have to cough up verification.I can write an statement saying that Adminppdotcom owes Sky Warner $4500 and give a few dates and balance.Ya gonna pay me?.Sarcasim aside, this is a great scenerio.No, I wouldn't just pay you, as consumer's shouldn't just pay any debt collector. Once I received your notice, I would send a TIMELY notice of dispute and request for verification, or just send a refusal to pay/cease communication letter.Any further word about the debt from you (debt collector), I would promply reply with a court summons The laws are to protect the consumer AND the debt collector. The consumer just has to out litigate the debt collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDon Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 The laws are to protect the consumer AND the debt collector. The consumer just has to out litigate the debt collector.I always thought they were written to guarantee positive cash flow in the judicial system through the use of obscure words and phrases.... You are correct. The consumer has to out-litigate the CA, and that's what we try to do here - promote what it takes to accomplish just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc2027 Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Well I am looking over things and they gave a breakdown of charges but nothing signed as requested in the letter. My second question still stands: Can I setup payments with the hospital and ignore the CA?THanks- I am still looking for SOL info- Would medical be a contractual agreement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Well I am looking over things and they gave a breakdown of charges but nothing signed as requested in the letter. My second question still stands: Can I setup payments with the hospital and ignore the CA?THanks- I am still looking for SOL info- Would medical be a contractual agreement?You can always pay the original creditor, however, they are not obligated to take your $. Sounds funny, but if they SOLD the account, it would create a tax liability to take the $. In addition, if the original creditor is not reporting, you are wasting your money.They dont have to sign anything. Take a look at the big picture:If they have itemized statements, with your name, SSN, address etc from the hospital, it sounds like verification to me. What woud a judge say, and remember the standard of proof in matters as these is simply "preponderance" of the evidence. This falls way short of "proof."Verification falls even shorter than preponderance.Verification is a limited tool, and is just one of many tools the consumer has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof5 Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 OK so some idiot CA sends me a notice that I owe hospital $1089. I DV them.They send printout that contains my name, my SSN, my addy and the itemization of charges.....Hmmm *I* didn't have surgery that date!Send second DV.They send "patient = jane doe"Send letter.... I have NO idea who jane doe is, but not a relation of mine!They respond with don't care! We have YOUR name YOUR SSN and YOUR address and that is ALL we need.Great! Take me to court. They haven't!I am STILL trying to get them off my bureau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 OK so some idiot CA sends me a notice that I owe hospital $1089. I DV them.They send printout that contains my name, my SSN, my addy and the itemization of charges.....Hmmm *I* didn't have surgery that date!Send second DV.What is a "second" request for verification? (devil's advocate)They send "patient = jane doe"Send letter.... I have NO idea who jane doe is, but not a relation of mine!They respond with don't care! We have YOUR name YOUR SSN and YOUR address and that is ALL we need.Right. They DONT CARE. They know sooner or later you will pay to get it off. At least they HOPE that.Great! Take me to court. They haven't!I am STILL trying to get them off my bureau.This is where you need to out lawyer them. SUE THEM FIRST When they bring in the info about Jane Doe, and you are NOT Jane doe, what do you think the judge will say.There is a great little part of the FDCPA. It's called "declaritory releif." This means the judge can DECLARE there is no debt. So when you dispute it AFTER the judge makes the declaration, and the debt collector OR the consumer reporting agency verifies it, YOU SUE BOTH the debt collector and the collection agency. THAT's how you get it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof5 Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 You are right about being able to sue.SOOOO Here is single mom of 5 children whose ex is a deadbeat. Two of the kids are disabled and required regular medical trips (uh during working hours), the other kids are honors kids and one is a champion soccer player (worth all the hassle to earn a college scholarship), etc.I prefer - due to my enormously overwhelming schedule - to minimize the number of times I actually have to file or to go to court. My experience has shown that when you have your ducks in a row, threaten properly, most CAs and OCs will fold. What p*sses me off in the interim is that MY credit score is affected while it is sorted out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 My experience has shown that when you have your ducks in a row, threaten properly, most CAs and OCs will fold. What p*sses me off in the interim is that MY credit score is affected while it is sorted out!Probably the single best advice Ive seen in a long time!Any idea where dad is? Id like to talk to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof5 Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yeah, he is in Pascagoula MS. Married to a crack addict and he can't keep a job.... wonder why I dumped him???? LOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yeah, he is in Pascagoula MS. Married to a crack addict and he can't keep a job.... wonder why I dumped him???? LOLOLWell, at least she has nice summer teeth right? Some are here and some are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof5 Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yeah..... <snicker> Her teeth....his hairline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc2027 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 What kind of SOL aggreement would medical fall under? Would I be able to get out from under it since it is almost 7 years old in april? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adminppdotcom Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 What kind of SOL aggreement would medical fall under? Would I be able to get out from under it since it is almost 7 years old in april?Not knowing the sure, I would like to THINK it is time-barred Take my opinion for what you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 What kind of SOL aggreement would medical fall under? Would I be able to get out from under it since it is almost 7 years old in april?Written contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts