Open/Closed Status of Collection Account.

[ThePeacock]

Some one told me that the very nature of a collection account deems it

should be listed as "closed" Is this true? Is it any violation if they listed it as open?

[shafted]

yeah I have heard it is a violation, my understanding of why is that the fact is is "open" is more damaging to your credit score, i.e. greater leverage to get you to pay it off, and therefore an unfair debt collection if its technically not open. CM Chase (a very great person here) sent me the case law on this, but I still found it rather vague, maybe my own ignorance of case law... FWIW, I'm guessing there is no way I can convince a judge in local court that a collection account should legally be reported as "closed" by definition, and that any other designation is a violation, but I will still include it in my case to intimidate the defendant. Any one who can help me build this argument using case law, or past decisions would be my hero.

[gdouglaslee]

I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[anti-something]

so what account type does an apartment move out debt fall under?

[shafted]

gdouglaslee:

You are not understanding the question.

If a collecetion agency reports a collection on your CRA and it says open, is that a violation? If so.. why?

[devil21]

You already answered it. An Open status indicates that there is still credit being extended. If there is no credit being extended, the status must be Closed. If not, its misleading and constitutes several FDCPA violations.

[ThePeacock]

You already answered it. An Open status indicates that there is still credit being extended. If there is no credit being extended, the status must be Closed. If not, its misleading and constitutes several FDCPA violations.

That's exactly what was originally be asked. Thank you Devil21. Have

no clue what the issue is w/ "gdouglaslee".

[Champion80]

Can we get clarification on this question, I believe it has some importance if in fact it is a violation, I am one, as I am sure many of you that have a CO showing as open, now if in fact it is a violation, which seems to be the direction we are moving in, can someone cite the FCRA or FDCPA violation, I am hopefull and anxious, this would be great for a lot of us... EXPERT HELP!!!!

[devil21]

Examples, straight from my Asset complaint:

51. Defendant violated FDCPA 15 U.S.C. § 1692e(2)(A) by falsely reporting the legal status of the account as Open to Equifax, a consumer reporting agency as defined by 15 U.S.C. § 1681a(F).

54. Defendant violated FDCPA 15 U.S.C. § 1692e(2)(A) by falsely characterizing the account status as "Open” to Equifax, a consumer reporting agency as defined by 15 U.S.C. § 1681a(F).

Remember, this ONLY applies to Account STATUS, not Account Type.

[Leadhead]

Actually a CA could report an account as "open".

Say you have an account with Cap1 that's 60 days late and Cap1 sends it to Arrow to collect. An account is not charged off until it becomes 180 days past due. So Arrow could list it as open.

[gdouglaslee]

You already answered it. An Open status indicates that there is still credit being extended. If there is no credit being extended, the status must be Closed. If not, its misleading and constitutes several FDCPA violations.

That's exactly what was originally be asked. Thank you Devil21. Have

no clue what the issue is w/ "gdouglaslee".

The issue is that you still don't understand.

Your original question was:

Is it any violation if they listed it as open?

If they listed "it" as open?

What does "it" mean?

People (especially FNGs) often don't pay attention and often confuse things.

There are two data fields that you have to look at. On an on-line report, you might see this:

Acct Type: Open

Acct Stauts: Open

Is there a violation here? Maybe yes, maybe no. It all depends.

As I explained, if the underlying debt is an open account, that is to say it is a credit card, charge card, revolving card, store card, personal line of revolving credit or utility (gas, electric, water, telephone, cable, cellular, wireless, garbage, sewage, dead body pick-up), then the Acct Type is correct and there is no violation.

If the the underlying debt was a personal loan, student loan, auto loan, other installment loan like jewelry, furniture and appliances, medical debt or an apartment lease then this would be a violation because the Acct Type should be "Closed."

As far as the Acct Status, well there is some debate about that. If a collection agency is collecting they might argue that they report "Open" when they are actively trying to collect and and when they cease collection activities, they report "Closed.' You will need to make an argument and let a judge/jury decide.

Neither the account status nor the account type factors into your FICO/FAKO scores.

[ThePeacock]

Okay, that I can accept. But these accounts are COs and have been sold

at least once, some of them twice.

[ThePeacock]

Okay, that I can accept. But these accounts are COs and have been sold

at least once, some of them twice.

Refering of course to leadhead

[ThePeacock]

You already answered it. An Open status indicates that there is still credit being extended. If there is no credit being extended, the status must be Closed. If not, its misleading and constitutes several FDCPA violations.

That's exactly what was originally be asked. Thank you Devil21. Have

no clue what the issue is w/ "gdouglaslee".

The issue is that you still don't understand.

Your original question was:

Is it any violation if they listed it as open?

If they listed "it" as open?

What does "it" mean?

People (especially FNGs) often don't pay attention and often confuse things.

There are two data fields that you have to look at. On an on-line report, you might see this:

Acct Type: Open

Acct Stauts: Open

Is there a violation here? Maybe yes, maybe no. It all depends.

As I explained, if the underlying debt is an open account, that is to say it is a credit card, charge card, revolving card, store card, personal line of revolving credit or utility (gas, electric, water, telephone, cable, cellular, wireless, garbage, sewage, dead body pick-up), then the Acct Type is correct and there is no violation.

If the the underlying debt was a personal loan, student loan, auto loan, other installment loan like jewelry, furniture and appliances, medical debt or an apartment lease then this would be a violation because the Acct Type should be "Closed."

As far as the Acct Status, well there is some debate about that. If a collection agency is collecting they might argue that they report "Open" when they are actively trying to collect and and when they cease collection activities, they report "Closed.' You will need to make an argument and let a judge/jury decide.

Neither the account status nor the account type factors into your FICO/FAKO scores.

Well if neither affect the score then really this would only help in a case against the CA. From what you've said, it seems it would be a weak factor at best.

[anti-something]

its basically another thing to add to the long list of violations the CA racks up. theres no way you would win in court if reporting as 'open' status instead of 'closed' was the only violation. what you are looking to prove is a pattern of behaviour on the CAs part in flaunting the laws.

(thanks for the answer gdouglaslee)

[devil21]

Actually the Open STATUS does affect your scores because it tricks the scoring model into thinking the new 120 late added by Asset, Arrow, Sherman, etc is a NEW debt and a NEW default, instead of a continuation of an old debt that has been charged-off. By listing as Open status, it puts it into a different section of your credit reports and acts as an open line of credit (read: active credit card) that you are currently late or defaulting on. It affects your score alot.

And as for CA's listing as Open status, that would depend totally on the situation. Most times when a CA has an account, it has already been closed by the OC and therefore credit is no longer being extended, thus requiring a Closed status. In the case of a JDB listing, it should NEVER have an Open status. Thats how the JDBs try to coerce you into paying....by having it Open status and adding fresh 120 day lates. That hits your score harder than a collection account listing (which is what it should be).

[Champion80]

Devil, that is a good post per the conversation thank you for being more clear than the vague responses we are shooting out, did you have any luck with your ITS, or did you actually already take them to court, I am just quickly replying to your post, I haven't looked at the our rights yet for those specific sections, I also take you word on it, I do think that its important for people to know a situation where you are quoting our rights and whether you had success and where in the process you had the success.

[ThePeacock]

Actually the Open STATUS does affect your scores because it tricks the scoring model into thinking the new 120 late added by Asset, Arrow, Sherman, etc is a NEW debt and a NEW default, instead of a continuation of an old debt that has been charged-off. By listing as Open status, it puts it into a different section of your credit reports and acts as an open line of credit (read: active credit card) that you are currently late or defaulting on. It affects your score alot.

And as for CA's listing as Open status, that would depend totally on the situation. Most times when a CA has an account, it has already been closed by the OC and therefore credit is no longer being extended, thus requiring a Closed status. In the case of a JDB listing, it should NEVER have an Open status. Thats how the JDBs try to coerce you into paying....by having it Open status and adding fresh 120 day lates. That hits your score harder than a collection account listing (which is what it should be).

Well damn, wish you guys would make up your mind !

[anti-something]

its all a huge secret, we can only guess the effects upon score.

STATUS

for example. i have an amex reporting closed this month, open on the other two. absolutely NO difference in score.

for example; DH has a collection, reports open on one, closed on the other, no score difference.

Your results may vary

the violation would have to be misrepresenting the debt.

[devil21]

Is the AMEX in default and being updated monthly with late histories? Also, you can't really compare one score to another unless all reports are literally IDENTICAL.

For those that have had closed status collection accounts AND open status collection accounts removed, which one gives you a bigger score boost upon removal? 9 out of 10 times, the open status deletion will give you 25 points. A closed status collection or charge-off is worth around 15. There IS a difference. In reality, it does not matter practically because its a violation either way that only entitles you to $1000 statutory for FDCPA violation (no punitive).

As for my Asset ITS, its out there and the deadline for initial contact to me is Friday. If no response, I will be spending Monday lunch break at the local federal courthouse. Im lucky because I work about 15 minutes away from it. I will keep yall posted.

[ThePeacock]

This whole credit thing is some big evil game and we're the freakin pawns. We need to get someone on the "inside".

[Champion80]

I will start thinking on my nomination!!! Death to the CRA's!!

[anti-something]

Is the AMEX in default and being updated monthly with late histories? Also, you can't really compare one score to another unless all reports are literally IDENTICAL.

The AMEX is fine, it just has a $0 balance and for some reason TU thought it was closed.. why I have no clue..

the CRs ARE identical, everything matches up right now, balances, history, CLs, high balance. (that must a first huh?)

I was surprised myself at the no difference in score.. I really thought there would be some difference.

[devil21]

If all have $0 balance that is why. If they all had past due balance and late histories being reported with different status (open/closed) the score would be different. Now, if one is listing as closed that SHOULD affect your score by a point or two because it is shortening the average age of accounts. Either way, your example doesnt fly in this scenario.

[anti-something]

what about DHs collection account?

one says open, one says closed, no score difference, and that has a balance.