Need advice on DV reply

[carol124]

Just as a little background, this involves a CC. I had made a payoff settlement with a CA in 2003. The settlement was done over the phone so I have no proof except for my canceled e-check. Apparently the account was then sold to NCO. NCO has now turned it over to a lawyer.

I sent out DV letters to NCO and the lawyer on 2/16/05. I've received my Green Cards. One letter was delivered 2/18, the other 2/19. In the meantime I filed a complaint with the BBB on the CA I made settlement with. I had spoken with this CA several times by phone to request a payoff notice but all I got was promises. I haven't heard back from the BBB yet but am hoping they'll be able to help me get the payoff notice. Below is the reply I received from the lawyer. It's dated 2/23.

RE: VERIFICATION OF DEBT

Our Client: NCO-ASSIGNEE OF FLEET

Account # xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Our File # xxxxxx

Dear Ms. xxxx

Thank you for your letter that we received on February 22, 2005. According to the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, $3,436.88, the amount being demanded, is the amount that our client claims is owed.

Please call me upon receipt of this letter. Thank you.

Very truly yours,

Lawyers name, Esquire

This is a communication from a debt collector, the purpose of which is to collect a debt; any information obtained will be used for the purpose of collecting the debt.

I do realize the debt hasn't been validated and I know not to call. I just need a little advice on what to do next. I've never done this before so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Carol

[codename_fortyseven]

I'd tell them that that wasn't even an attempt at validation, and say no more. I'd just sit back and let the violations pile up. Any phone calls, letters demanding this or that is continued collection activity. I'd also dispute the the CRA and see what happens. If it comes back verified, then you have another violation.

Who does this lawyer work for? Are they an independent firm? I am guessing this debt is within the SOL.

Screw the BBB, they have no legal authority. Write your local atty gen and FTC and make sure to follow up.

Get a tape recorder and start documenting phone calls if it is legal in your state, which it probably is

[carol124]

I'd tell them that that wasn't even an attempt at validation, and say no more. I'd just sit back and let the violations pile up. Any phone calls, letters demanding this or that is continued collection activity.

I kinda figured I needed to send a response. I seem to remember reading in another post that you must reply to a letter like the one I received. If not, and it goes to court, the CA can say they verified the claim or something like that. I'll have to see if I can find that post and read it again. I understand what you're saying, I'm just not sure how to word the letter.

I'd also dispute the the CRA and see what happens. If it comes back verified, then you have another violation.

I was thinking of doing that. I had bought a CR online from EQ when I first started this a month ago. At that time, NCO was listed for this account. The CR doesn't update so I don't know if it's still there.

Who does this lawyer work for? Are they an independent firm?

I guess they're an independent firm. The return address on the envelope is Apothaker & Associates, PC. I don't know what the PC stands for.

I am guessing this debt is within the SOL.

I think so. I originally defaulted in 1999 but made a payoff settlement in 2003 so think that reset the SOL.

Screw the BBB, they have no legal authority. Write your local atty gen and FTC and make sure to follow up.

Get a tape recorder and start documenting phone calls if it is legal in your state, which it probably is

I believe it's legal as long as I tell them I'm recording. I don't plan on talking to anyone on the phone though. That's what got me into this trouble to begin with

Questions:

1: Do I have to buy another CR or just try to dispute using the CR I have? Also, what reason should I give?

2: How can I find out info on this lawyer? I've tried but so far, haven't been able to find out anything.

3: Can I just file a complaint online with the Atty Gen & FTC or do I need to send it CMRRR? Also, should I file now or wait and see what happens first?

Thanks!

Carol

[carol124]

I put together a letter for the lawyer. Does it sound ok or do I need to add/change anything?

My name

Address

Lawyer

Address

Date:

Re: Acct # xxxxxxxx

Ref # xxxxx

Mr. xxxxxxxx

This is to inform you that the letter sent from your office on 02/23/05 is NOT accepted as VALIDATION of this debt. Your client "claims" I owe this amount but that does not mean that I do. I had requested PROOF that I owe this debt and you did not provide that in any way.

Until you are able to provide me with complete and acceptable documentation of the following, all collection activity must cease and desist.

1: Identify the original creditor and the date of original default;

2: Provide the complete payment history including any payments made to the original creditor and debt collectors;

3: If you or your client has purchased this account, provide the date of purchase plus amount paid for said debt. Also include who the debt was purchased from;

4: Explain and show me how the amount your client "claims as owed" was calculated, including interest, penalties, late fees, and any other amount added to the original balance;

5: Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what your client "claims" I owe;

6: Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account;

7: Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;

8: Show me that you are licensed and bonded to collect in my state;

9: Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent;

As stated in my previous letter, if your offices ARE able to provide the proper documentation, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Best Regards,

My name

Questions from previous reply:

1: Do I have to buy another CR or just try to dispute using the CR I have? Also, what reason should I give?

2: How can I find out info on this lawyer? I've tried but so far, haven't been able to find out anything.

3: Can I just file a complaint online with the Atty Gen & FTC about the payoff notice or do I need to send it CMRRR? Also, should I file now or wait and see what happens first?

[codename_fortyseven]

Don't tell them how to do their jobs. They should know. If they don't, then just be sure to document their shortcomings for a later court date.

I'd just write a letter and say that "the verification sent is insufficient. I again demand validation of the debt." and leave it at that. No need to get all fancy If they don't know what proper validation is, then that is their fault and problem. Again, I would send them those two sentences above for now.

As far as getting a free credit report, it is easy. They should send you one when you dispute the TL. I'd try to dispute it with the CR you have or just say you were denied credit in the last 60 days for a free report.

Find out some info on the firm, do a search on them, see what comes up. From what I can find, they are debt collector atty's.

Don't guess on the SOL. Be sure. If it is past the SOL, write them a C/D letter and be done with it, or offer to pay 100 bucks for deletion.

Don't ask for a payoff while asking for validation. Validation questions the legitimacy of the debt. A payoff quote suggests that you believe the debt is valid.

Again, on the taping, it matters where you live as far as one party rule or two. Most states it is two party, but if the CA gives you the "we may record calls for quality assurance" line, then that is two party notification. Don't tell them squat about you recording. People tend to act differently when the know that Alternatively, you could ask if they are recording and if they say yes, then that is two party notification.

You can file a FTC complaint online, but they won't do anything. They handle large cases on a "for the people" level. Your atty Gen is the best bet. It probably isn't necessary to send it CMRRR, but that is the safest bet.

[carol124]

Thanks for your advice about the letter. I didn't really know what to say so just included everything I could think of

As far as getting a free credit report, it is easy. They should send you one when you dispute the TL.

What reason should I give for the dispute? I was going to do it online but the options given didn't sound like they'd apply. The CC was mine. It was just settled with a different CA. Below are the options that were listed on EQ. Any suggestions?

1: This item does not belong to me.

2: I have never paid this account late.

3: This is a fraudulent account.

4: Fraudulent charges made on this account.

5: This account is closed.

6: Account Reaffirmed.

Don't guess on the SOL. Be sure. If it is past the SOL, write them a C/D letter and be done with it, or offer to pay 100 bucks for deletion.

I've read in different posts that the SOL starts from the DOLA. I made a settlement payment in Sept. 2003. Wouldn't that have restarted the SOL?

You can file a FTC complaint online, but they won't do anything. They handle large cases on a "for the people" level. Your atty Gen is the best bet. It probably isn't necessary to send it CMRRR, but that is the safest bet.

Thanks for that info! Do you think I should file now or wait to see what happens?

[ghacorp]

Carol,

Your DV letter example was much too wordy and the kind often ignored when received. FTC guidelines mandate only collectors validate debts and are not required to run through an obstacle course. (That sort of thing should be saved for Discovery, etc.) Yes, payments or payment agreements can in fact reset the SOL in most states. They still must validate the debt if asked to do so. If a suit has been filed the matter will ultimately be decided in court unless the Plaintiff dismisses the case.

[carol124]

Please forgive me if I ask any silly questions. Before coming here I had no idea how these things work. I think this site is great and have read tons of posts. I've learned alot but do find I get a little confused sometimes over the replies

Your DV letter example was much too wordy and the kind often ignored when received. FTC guidelines mandate only collectors validate debts and are not required to run through an obstacle course. (That sort of thing should be saved for Discovery, etc.)

I understand about Discovery but the rest is a little confusing.

1: Isn't the lawyer considered a debt collector?

2: If so, aren't they required to validate the debt before seeking payment?

I understand the difference between verification and validation and realize collectors are not required to run an "obstacle course" but thought they WERE required to send acceptable proof of debt if requested (validation). I read that you should clearly state the info being requested. If not, the collector could turn around and say they didn't provide the info because you didn't ask. Is this correct or did I misunderstand?

BTW, the lawyer apparently DID choose to ignore my original DV I wonder if he's hoping I don't respond so he can say I accepted the verification if it goes to court?

[codename_fortyseven]

Give any reason to dispute the TL or the easiest is to just say you were denied credit in the last 60 days. They might have you list what company denied you. Do you have an inq in the last 60 days?

If not, just list anything. List that you never paid the account late.

Here's a good link on state SOL's. FYI, in some states it does restart the SOL in others it doesn't. What state are you in?

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11660&highlight=restarting+sol

As far as listing a complaint, I'd do it now to get the wheels rolling. These things take time.

I think the lawyer is a debt collector, thus they must validate before collecting.

Regarding your letter, less is more. Just state the facts "you didn't validate. I again request validation. You have 15 days."

And take copious notes for later referance.

[carol124]

Do you have an inq in the last 60 days?

No so I'll just use whatever.

Here's a good link on state SOL's. FYI, in some states it does restart the SOL in others it doesn't. What state are you in?

I'm in NJ. SOL is 6 years.

Does a payment on a time barred account restart the SOL if the payment is made AFTER the SOL has expired? I'm a little confused about that and need to know for a different account.

I think the lawyer is a debt collector, thus they must validate before collecting.

That's what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up

Update Info:

Today I received a letter from the CA I made settlement with. The BBB did what I had hoped but the CA is a complete IDIOT I had asked for the payoff notice to contain complete details and to clearly state that the account was "Paid In Full." I supplied the account #, settlement amount, check number and date of settlement.

This is the letter I received:

Debtor: Just a number, no name

Client: 41.0 (whatever THAT means)

Ref #: Must be the CA ref # because it's not the # for this CC

Date account placed: xx/xx/2003

Dear xxxx,

This confirms that your payment of $$$ for the above-noted account has been received and applied to your account. The account has been reported to the creditor as settled in full and closed in our office.

Signed:

xxxxx

Account Manager

I may be wrong but this doesn't sound like squat to me! They did not identify the creditor or even supply the CC account #. Also, (to me) it implies that I just made the payment when in fact, settlement was done in Sept. 2003.

I know this notice is a little on the sucky side but do you think it would help to include it with my letter to the lawyer?

If not, should I just send the "you didn't validate, etc, then try for a better payoff notice to use later on?

[carol124]

bump

[carol124]

I haven't received any replies to my last post so went ahead and reopened my complaint with the BBB. I requested for the CA to send another settlement letter that identified the client, account #, etc. Figured it might be good to have in case I ever need it

Today I received a letter from the current CA. All it says is:

"This letter is notification that your account is settled in this office.

In the event your check is returned by the bank this letter will be void."

I'm a little confused by this letter. I never sent them a check or made settlement with their company so don't understand why it's worded the way it is. Should I just be happy the account is settled or do I need to be concerned?

Also, I was waiting for a reply to my last post so haven't responded to the lawyer's "verification" letter yet. Since I've now received this "settlement" letter from the CA, do I need to even bother replying? The lawyer was retained by the CA so is it up to them to notify him or do I need to send him a copy of this letter?

Sorry to ask all these silly questions....I just want to be sure I'm doing everything right

Thanks!

[LadyButler]

Sounds to my like the monkey at the CA is trying different form response letters to you...

I don't know how to make them stop the mindless responses... but keep pressing them for the correct response... and document document document.

Anyone think she'd be ok to call and ask about it?

[c m chase]

And, along with those other complaints, DO file a complaint with the BBB. Even though they don't have authority, they do keep records and you can look it up on the net how many complaints they have and their record. I say complain to everyone you possibly can. Get that word out.

[carol124]

Thank you both for your replies!

I did reopen my complaint with the BBB so I'll see what happens. If they don't send another letter, I'll file again PLUS file a complaint with the Atty Gen!

I was a little worried about not replying to the "verification" sent by the lawyer so mailed him a letter today. I included a copy of the "settlement" letter received from his client. I just requested for him to send me written confirmation that he had been notified that this account was settled and to also confirm that he was no longer trying to collect on this debt. I don't know if he'll respond but at least I know he was made aware of it.

After giving it some thought, I really don't care about the check part. I figure they're just trying to cover their butts in some way. The main thing is that I now have proof of settlement