Collections advice needed.

[twowheelrider]

Brief History:

Wife handled finances in the past and did not make the CC payments. The card was in my name and now the balance is triple of the actual charges due to interest. The original creditor sold the debt to a CA sometime last year. I found out that my Wife had received 2 offers to settle. The last offer was in Jan this year and has expired. We did not have enough funds in Jan. to settle but was able to save up enough to settle for the amount offered in Jan. The account has since been reassigned to another employee of the CA. We received a new Bill from the CA about 2 weeks ago for the full amount. We called her to see if we could settle for the amount offered in Jan. She said it expired and now wants $500 more than the offer from Jan. I indicated we did not have it and wanted to know why she will not settle for the previous offer. She eventually got upset enough to hang up on us. We called back to contact the previous account person. We were able to speak with her but she said the account was reassigned and could not do anything. We called back to speak with a supervisor. We were transferred to a VM and so we called back and spoke with the current person handling the account. She said since we involved a supervisor we would have to pay the full amount.

Possible Mistakes:

After some CA research on the web I realized I was wasting time attempting to settle over the phone and should have never called them. My Wife had spoke to them before and may have made a payment to them since the debt was purchased. I believe the SOL would have been reached this June however it probably just restarted. I might add that we have not made any arrangments or promises to pay while talking to them on the phone. No personal info was given to them. We will no longer call them or discuss anything on the phone.

Questions:

1. Can someone advise me on the best way to handle this? I am fairly new to the whole process. I not sure how exactly to go about this after reading on the creditinfocenter web site.

2. Should I still send a debt validation letter to the CA? If so, will they immediately file a judgment after providing a response? We called the original creditor and they verified that the debt was sold and turned over the account info. They gave us a phone number which appears to be the CA we are battling. They also said they could not access the files because it is blocked (this came from a supervisor. not sure what that means?). They could be lying but I can't see what they would gain from it?

3. I wanted to settle with the CA but the current vulture who has the account appears to be holding out for our blood. We called this persons manager and she is not sure what the status is but that we needed to speak with the person the account was assigned too. This appears to be more evidence to me that the decision to settle is in the hands of the person who has the account assigned to them. Is there anyway to force the CA to reassign the account to someone else like the previous person that handled the account? Can the vultures manager settle the account?

4. If the CA is able to verify the debt per FDCPA and the loophole about the wording in the contract "debtor agrees to be responsible for payment of this debt to creditor OR ITS ASSIGNS." is on it. What other options are there? Holding out seems to be an advantage for the CA because of the interest being applied on the balance.

5. I checked on CA licensing for Kansas. It is not required. Is there anything else at the state level to look at?

Hopefully nobody falls asleep reading all this. Thanks in advance

[Champion80]

Hello There twowheelrider, welcome to your journey, I would like to give you my experiences to give you some direction, I have also inlcluded 2 links below for a couple posts that I had some luck with, I would also suggest maybe going through other posts of mine, to see if you can pull anything from them as well, several of the experts here have given advice on them, so it should help.

Now in regards to not doing business over the phone, Retmar, Dive, Doc, do say it is best to do everything in writing, however, I have had great success now with 3 different Collections with a combination of phone and letters. I will explain. First knowing your SOL on the account I would say is pretty important, you say it may have been moved up, but unless you have made a payment on the account, it has not, and if your reports indicate it has, that is re-aging and is illegal. So you want to check your reports of the DOLA, and/or Date of last deliquency, this is the start date for the SOL. Then in my opinion, I look at the amount I owe, and if it is not too high, the likelyhood of being sued is pretty low (from my experience, no one sued, balances as high as $1200). In your case it will be good to see how long this CA has had your debt, because after a certain amount of time they will probably sell it to someone else because as each year passes, they know the chances of ever collecting any money decreases dramatically. Something to remember is most CA employees that are assigned your debt will recieve a commission upon payment of your account, in addition it is imparitive that at this point you under no cirmcumstances will pay them a dime without getting a deletion, if you do , you are doing nothing but paying a debt. It is also a well known fact, all of those incrued fees and interest that has compounded while you havent paid can and will be waived once you talk with the right person if you ask in the right way, now when I said I beleive a combination of talking and letters is a good strategy, an example would be what happen to me today actually, I had a collection showing since sometime last year, fairly new, I orignally called the collection agency 9 months ago, I got into a yelling match with the assigned rep just as you did, and then also spoke with a supervisor, I explained to him that there really is no benefit to paying the account unless it was deleted. He said it was against their policy to delete a legitimate collection, he had also said off the record we will be selling your collection in 9 months and you can settle with them before they report and we can no longer report...We will see. Well today 9 months later and I recieved no letter from a new CA to collect a debt, well I called them back and I now have a new rep, and I asked her when they were selling it, and they said they do not do that ( I do not think she was being completely honest it just didnt happen yet, like I said earlier they will most likeley sell it if they have no luck, and have no intention on suing). So I gave my SOB STORY (you must get a good sob story together for the phone conversation, this is why the phone part is part of my strategy, you cannot express voice and emotion in a letter. if so it is limited and therefore has a limited response). I asked her to have the supervisore review the account for a deletion letter and I will send payment today. The supervisor approved, i talked with him over the phone, I payed the debt minus the late fees and I now have the letter in hand.

Please read through these postings below, so you can see the different outcomes, in your current situation, you may actually be able to deal with the OC if you talk with the rigth people. so I would try very hard with them first to see if they will settle, they will definately take that $500 back off if you deal with it the right way, and if the $500 is the interest and late fees and there is more fees on top of the original owed balance, I would suggest offering way less and see if you can get the compromise, the letter part comes in when you agree over the phone for the deletion, once you get the verbal agreement ask for the letter to be faxed if you have one, and then send the orginal in the mail and make the payment, if you do not have the fax, have them send it to you in the mail, and tell them you will pay once you recieve the letter.

Sorry for the long response, but if you go hard at it for the next couple weeks, you should feel pretty confident they will deal, afterall there main job is collect the debt, you are willing to pay for the debt. Another great tip someone else had discovered, because of the commission thing I was telling you about, if you call near the end of the month, some have had great results getting a great settlement offer. And in addition, after checking the SOL for sure, DV with a clear dispute to them will require a dispute to show on your CR's, work all angles, try to force violations and READ READ READ. GOOD LUCK>

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26046

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26065

[Champion80]

I also wanted to find out whether or not you are certain the debt was sold and not assigned to the CA, either way like I said, first try very hard to get a resolution out of the OC, write emails to the higher ups letting them know of you situation at the time, even if you situation wasnt all that serious at the time, ovioulsy it was bad enough for the CC debt to eventually go to Collections, make sure you dramatize a bit, and let them know you have money to pay the account. And to remind you, a big part of that interest is very possible to be decreased to a balance that you can pay, my friend for example had an account with Discover that went to their Collection department, and when he agreed to start making payments to pay the debt down they took off a huge portion of the late fees, overlimit fees, and interest. He made the mistake of not trying for a deletion though, remember that there is no point in paying the debt without a deletion, the payment will re-age the debt to make it more recent, which will in return effect your credit to a greater degree because it is recent collection activivty. Remember, I pulled my FAKO scores 1 year ago to date, then I started my repair process in August of last year, and now to date, I have had several deletions, some with a settlement to delete, some just deleted. But my FAKO scores are dramatically higher, and will be even higher once I have the last deletion reported. Have faith, patience and persistance.

[twowheelrider]

My wife tried calling the OC to try and work something out about the account. The individual she spoke with was an account supervisor. He said the account was sold and that they could not access the files because it was blocked. As indicated in my earlier post I am not for sure what that means? It could be because the loan is sold or the account info is unavailable or he is lying. I would like to work out something with the OC but it does not appear that is going to happen. I am not sure what I should try next. I want to settle but the vulture that has my account will not settle for an amount I can afford to pay (even though it was their earlier offer). In your first reply you quoted "DV with a clear dispute to them will require a dispute to show on your CR's". Does this mean they will request the CR's update the entry to show disputed? Also, the original entry from the OC is also on the report. If I dispute it with the CRA's can this be removed if the OC can't access the records to validate it? I am considering sending the DV first. If I do that will that ruin any future settlement opportunity? The DV does make them validate the debt and I will know for sure if they have the right to collect that debt and the true amount.

[Champion80]

All very great questions, you know I had never dealt with an OC that says the files were locked, it may very well have been true, considering you were calling with intention to pay a debt. If it were me I would call one more time, speak to another supervisor, and if he/she cant help, ask for their help, give you sob story and see what happens, if it doenst work and no one can get the files, just a little time is lost.

DV'ing the CA will require them to report to the CRA's that the TL is in dispute, so if they do not do it withing the time frame and you pull your reports again, and it says disputed, they followed the rules, if not, you have them on a violation, which in turn will give you leverage. Sometimes if you DV a CA, they sell it off to another CA, and this is a really good thing for you, because once they are no longer collecting the debt, they can no longer report to the CRA. So make sure the current CA has your current address, that way if they sell it, or once they sell it, you will get a letter from the new CA, with the mini-miranda and the amount you owe, and stating they have taken over collection for the debt. You immediately dispute the account, and then call them once you know they have the letter, make sure you get this all done in the 30 day period, they will not report right away, so the only thing you are going to need to do is get them to offer you a great settlement, which we both know they can and will, they paid a lot less for the debt.

Your DV will not hurt any future settlement opportunity, keep in mind, as each year passes, there are statistics that show a dramatic decrease in collection of an old debt. They will settle, you just have to press, tell the rep in an honest firm tone, look, you can do anything about this debt, I am offering to pay the portion of the debt they say I owe, not all this compounded interest and fees, all I ask for in return is a letter stating the debt is satisfied in full, will be deleted from my credit profile, and by no means can any portion of any remaining "interest balance" be sold to another CA.

You really have a couple options once you DV, they either cannot, break the law, do not dispute the debt on your CR, they do validate and they report it as disputed, Either way you must start with this process, because it may be a very good possibility your "locked file" cannot be accessed by anyone. So with all of this crazyness going on, make sure you dispute the original TL for the OC, if it doenst work one way the first time, dispute it again another way. I have had luck with this, being verified, after a couple more disputes...deleted.

Twowheel, if you can post what the Collections look like and the Negative TL, I am very visual and like to see. I hope I didnt ramble again to much, I will do my best to answer questions from my experience, but definately keep reading, and if brushed to quickly over something or didnt touch on it at all, do what your doing. Like I said, your post had very direct questions which made it easy to answer. Heres a link below for the filing of suits for violations.

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/eBooks/PoorMansClassActionLawsuit.shtml

[twowheelrider]

I don't have the papers handy at this time. I will try to post something later on. As I indicated earlier this debt was for a CC. I believe the limit was fairly low at approx $500. They say I owe around $1700. I dont know how much my wife charged but I would say more than half of it is interest from the OC and a small amount from CA. I plan on sending the DV letter today or tomorrow by CMRRR. Another question I have is the FDCPA indicates that the debter must DV within 30 days upon receipt of the statment from the CA. The CA had this account since late last year. I am must be confused on this

[Champion80]

Although it says that, it doesnt mean you cannot DV the debt, what if you address had been changed and you never recieved that letter. This actually happen to me, and when I DV'ed way after they already had the debt, they still followed the law (they showed disputed on my CR), but this CA was assigned by SBC and they were good about following the laws, most CA's are not though, so dont worry about it, DV them, get that step out of the way, and prepare for your next step.

It says you owe around $1,700, I would also assume 2/3 of the amount is the interest and fees, you may definately be able to get a full deletion with the $500. This would be my goal. I actually had a CC I went over the limit on because I was near the limit before an annual fee was assesed, then my ex-business partner screwed me financially, so I kept making the minimimum payment, of course the fees kept racking up (first over the limit fees every month, then the minimum payment was higher, I kept paying the same amount I had been, then late fees began because I wasnt paying the new minimum), what happend though, they sent the account to their in house collections after it was at $1,200, they called me and the guy told me if I brought the account at least current with a $160 payment, the finance department might help me out. So I did, then I called and spoke with the finance supervisor, gave her my sob story, she took off every late fee, every over the limit fee, and I made another $160 towards the balance, in the end, she not only credited about $600 in fees, she also sent me a letter saying she would change the TL to never late, because it was also up to past 120 days late on my CR. Of course I asked for this to happen, but it gos to show, if you talk with the right people, anything can be done. I was stunned when I did this and very happy. So good luck.

Two wheel, I cant remember and I cant find it but when was your DOLA??

[divemedic]

All I can say is that dealing with CA's on the phone is usually a waste of time and do not, under ANY circumstances, give them any money without getting a delete in writing.

If it were me, I would DV them, it works more often that phone conversations. Also, these places specialize in tripping people up on the phone. I don't know about KS law, but there are things you can say on the phone that will get you in trouble. Be sure you know what you are doing.

[Champion80]

Dive you know I respect your opionion, I do so very much, I followed a few of your posts to help me out, and I also agree very much not to give any money without a letter in hand, with my experiences I have had 2 CA, and 1 OC over the phone agree to the deletion letter. And after I got the letter, I then payed them. But like Dive said, in this case I know nothing about KS, so it would be wise to make sure you feel cofortable calling them.

I also agree with the DV part first, you may end up gettting the deletion and/or a chance for future litigation or leverage. My options were up at this point, and on top of that, I am 2 months from buying a home and wanted the info off now.

[twowheelrider]

Here is the CA item that is listed on each CRA. I dont want to give the CA and acct number so I gave as much info as possible. Of the info given you can see some of it does not match between CRA's. This info is accurate as of a week ago. There may be something here that I am not seeing but I don't see the DOLA on any of them. There is a field for it on EQ but it says n/a. Thanks for the help.

EQ CRA Reports show the following:

Account Number = The OC company name with the CA acct#

Current Status = 120+DAYS PAST DUE

Account Owner = Individual Account

High Credit = The balance from the OC

Type of Account = Open

Credit limit = $0

Term Duration = nothing

Term Frequency Monthly(due every month)

Date opened = n/a

Balance = 1700+

Date reported = 01/2005

Amount Past Due = 1700+

Date of last payment = nothing

Actual Payment Amount = $0

Scheduled Payment Amount = $0

Date of Last Activity = n/a

Date Major Delinquency First = nothing

EX shows the following:

Account Number = CA acct#

Original/Creditor = OC

Status = Collection account 1700+ past due as of 1-2005

Date Opened 04/2004

Type = Installment

Credit Limit/Original Amount = The last OC balance

Reported Since = 10/2003

Terms = NA

High Balance = NA

Date of Status = 09/2003

Monthly Payment = $0

Recent Balance = 1700+ as of 01/2005

Last Reported = 01/2005

Responsibility = Individual

Recent Payment = $0

Account History = Collection as of 1-2005, 1-2005, 6-2004 to 12-2004, 10-2003

TU shows the following:

Account Number = The CA acct#

Loan Type = Factoring Company Account

Remarks = Placed for collection

Date placed for collection = 04/2004

Estimated Date that this item will be removed 09/2010

Balance = 1700+

Date Updated = 01/2005

Original Amount = The last OC amount

Original Creditor = OC

Past Due = 1700+

Pat Status = Collection Account

Account Type = Open Account

Responsibility = Individual Account

[Champion80]

Looking at your TU TL, it shows estimated date of removal for 9/2010, so that means the DOLA must of been on 10/2003, so you might want to check you files and reports to make sure that is it, and there has been no reaging, assuming it is right you definately way before your SOL for any state, so it looks like you need to get a good story together, get your cash ready and work for you deletion with pay.

Looking back over your EQ TL you say it says the OC's name with the CA #, this may indicate an assigned account, although you had already called and they said it was sold. Maybe this CA just references the OC with their Collection on that line. Feel confident you will get your deletion, hopefully if this CA has had the account for a while, they are almost about to sell the debt, so DV the account, and be ready.

This link here is a Privacy Guard 2 month trial for $1, after that is is $12.99 per month, the great thing about this one is most services charge an annual fee instead of monthly, and this particular offer is offered to everyone, I found it when searching other forums, I filled out the info, it didnt work at first, but I just backed up the browser and entered the info again and it worked. This one also gives you all three CR, and all 3 FAKO scores, so you can watch your progess, I pull one everyday.

[twowheelrider]

Thanks, I will definately try and determine the actual DOLA.

Yes, the EQ TL does indicate the OC's name with the CA# which when I first looked at it thought the same thing about it possibly being an assigned account however both the CA and the OC verbally indicate the debt as purchased. This is hard to determine without written proof from them.

The CA may have had this account for about 11 months as the EX TL shows the Date Opened as 04/2004 and TU TL shows Date placed for collections as 04/2004. As you posted earlier, if they sell the debt I can DV the next CA and hopefully get a better settlement.

You also mentioned a link to Privacy Guard 2 but may have forgot to add it. I did a google search and I show the web address as privacyguard.com Is this the same link?

[Champion80]

No, this was a link I had found through another forum because when I was talking with a PG rep she told me they also have a monthy fee because I was like you know, most people do not want to pay an annual fee up front, a monthly fee will probably make more people keep it. And she told me there was a monthly offer out there that only certain people were getting..Oviously not me, until I found the link in another forum.. Here it is.

https://www.privacyguard.com/global/scripts/secure/Promo.asp?promote_page_id=Registration&SID=DCBDC264A2AE4B1B12cd79ecef139e17

[twowheelrider]

Since CRA's allow you to dispute on-line. I am curious if anyone has tried this? I have never tried it. If something was to happen and for some reason they did not receive my dispute I could be put in a bad position. I would think there would be some safeguards.

[Champion80]

I have tried it and below, I have pasted an email you recieve once your investigation results are ready, this one is specifically with EX, but I have also done the same thing with TU, It has worked for me, and you will have this email you recieve, and when you view it, you get to review the results and your full report is also there to see. There are plenty of records to keep for the future if they are ever needed, that is my experience of course, I am sure others will chime in..

The results of your investigation of information in your Experian personal credit report are now available for online viewing. For your protection, please re-view your results online within four days of the following date: 01/14/2005 To review your results, go to the following URL and enter the requested information. www.experian.com/rd_personal/ps_getyourresultCDF_redir.html

Your Report Number is: XXXXXXXXX

Your Investigation ID is: XX

This notice is systematically generated. Please do not attempt to reply or send email because we cannot receive it.

[twowheelrider]

Champion80,

The following is an earlier post from you. I am not sure if I am clear on your first couple of sentences. I sent off my DV yesterday. Should I dispute the TL that the CA made or the OC made? I don't see a TL for the OC?

Your earlier post:

You really have a couple options once you DV, they either cannot, break the law, do not dispute the debt on your CR, they do validate and they report it as disputed, Either way you must start with this process, because it may be a very good possibility your "locked file" cannot be accessed by anyone. So with all of this crazyness going on, make sure you dispute the original TL for the OC, if it doenst work one way the first time, dispute it again another way. I have had luck with this, being verified, after a couple more disputes...deleted.

[twowheelrider]

Champion80,

The following is an earlier post from you. I am not sure if I am clear on your first couple of sentences. I sent off my DV yesterday. Should I dispute the TL that the CA made or the OC made? I don't see a TL for the OC?

Your earlier post:

You really have a couple options once you DV, they either cannot, break the law, do not dispute the debt on your CR, they do validate and they report it as disputed, Either way you must start with this process, because it may be a very good possibility your "locked file" cannot be accessed by anyone. So with all of this crazyness going on, make sure you dispute the original TL for the OC, if it doenst work one way the first time, dispute it again another way. I have had luck with this, being verified, after a couple more disputes...deleted.

[Champion80]

Well if there is no TL for the OC, that is a good thing, because there isnt two bay accounts you have to get rid of, sometimes though a CC might be listing derogs on you CR, and then the CA they sold it to is, so you have to attack both of them, but good for you in this case.

Yes you should dispute the TL that the CA made, many here have had deletions when they disputed an account after the DV letter to the CA, some verified and so on, so other than forcing the CA to prove the debt is owed by you and that you are legally obligated to pay it, it seems most CA's have complete disregard for the laws, so that DV letter you sent out to them notifies them that you dispute the debt, they are required then to notify the CRA's of that dispute and list that somewhere on the TL, they probably will not, and this is a violation. Of course it doesnt mean you are in the clear yet, because now you have to either use that leverage to get the deletion, which may take some work, or send the ITS and go really go to court. Remember, if there are gray areas in you mind about your specific situation, try searching key words. I spent about an hour a day for a couple weeks learning...And I know I have only scratched the surface. The cool thing about it is, if you really stick too it, your results start coming. The scores you see below show my FAKO's as of January of last year, but I did not actually start working on my credit until September, and 6 months later, I am up over 200 points.

[Champion80]

Well if there is no TL for the OC, that is a good thing, because there isnt two bay accounts you have to get rid of, sometimes though a CC might be listing derogs on you CR, and then the CA they sold it to is, so you have to attack both of them, but good for you in this case.

Yes you should dispute the TL that the CA made, many here have had deletions when they disputed an account after the DV letter to the CA, some verified and so on, so other than forcing the CA to prove the debt is owed by you and that you are legally obligated to pay it, it seems most CA's have complete disregard for the laws, so that DV letter you sent out to them notifies them that you dispute the debt, they are required then to notify the CRA's of that dispute and list that somewhere on the TL, they probably will not, and this is a violation. Of course it doesnt mean you are in the clear yet, because now you have to either use that leverage to get the deletion, which may take some work, or send the ITS and go really go to court. Remember, if there are gray areas in you mind about your specific situation, try searching key words. I spent about an hour a day for a couple weeks learning...And I know I have only scratched the surface. The cool thing about it is, if you really stick too it, your results start coming. The scores you see below show my FAKO's as of January of last year, but I did not actually start working on my credit until September, and 6 months later, I am up over 200 points.

[twowheelrider]

There are several articles that I have been reading. One workflow diagram at(http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation_workflow.shtml) indicates you should DV the CA and dispute the TL with the CRA at the same time. The chart does not appear to apply in my case since I would not be disputing the OC since I don't see a TL from OC. The TL is from the CA. In my case if I followed the diagram it would have me dispute the CA. Here is where the lines are grey for me. I am not sure if I still need to dispute the CA's TL with the CRA by CMRRR?

[twowheelrider]

There are several articles that I have been reading. One workflow diagram at(http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation_workflow.shtml) indicates you should DV the CA and dispute the TL with the CRA at the same time. The chart does not appear to apply in my case since I would not be disputing the OC since I don't see a TL from OC. The TL is from the CA. In my case if I followed the diagram it would have me dispute the CA. Here is where the lines are grey for me. I am not sure if I still need to dispute the CA's TL with the CRA by CMRRR?

[Champion80]

To be honest, the only reason they say to CMRRR the letter to the CRA's for a paper trail for leverage and future action, but you do want to do another dispute, because what is going to happen is they are probably not going to report the debt to the CRA's as disputed, and your dispute with the CRA's will also give you the paper trail of the CA violating the law because I would say the likelyhood of it coming back in dispute is low. So with You DV letter in hand with the CMRRR trail, and then the paper trail from the CRA's will give you the evidence that the CA willfully violated the law. Hence, your leverage for deletion, or grounds enough to go to court and make them pay you, or settle.

[Champion80]

To be honest, the only reason they say to CMRRR the letter to the CRA's for a paper trail for leverage and future action, but you do want to do another dispute, because what is going to happen is they are probably not going to report the debt to the CRA's as disputed, and your dispute with the CRA's will also give you the paper trail of the CA violating the law because I would say the likelyhood of it coming back in dispute is low. So with You DV letter in hand with the CMRRR trail, and then the paper trail from the CRA's will give you the evidence that the CA willfully violated the law. Hence, your leverage for deletion, or grounds enough to go to court and make them pay you, or settle.

[twowheelrider]

Thanks for the link. I noticed on my EQ CR that the TL (the one I just DV) states "81-Month Payment History" however just below that it states "No 81-Month Payment Data available for display." I don't know exactly what this means. I don't know if that means the CA does not have the payment history or if they are not reporting it. I would think if they had it that it would have to be reported. I am not sure what to dispute? I see alot of articles indicating you to provide documentation for each dispute. Should I dispute the whole debt that the CA reported or just certain values?

[twowheelrider]

Thanks for the link. I noticed on my EQ CR that the TL (the one I just DV) states "81-Month Payment History" however just below that it states "No 81-Month Payment Data available for display." I don't know exactly what this means. I don't know if that means the CA does not have the payment history or if they are not reporting it. I would think if they had it that it would have to be reported. I am not sure what to dispute? I see alot of articles indicating you to provide documentation for each dispute. Should I dispute the whole debt that the CA reported or just certain values?