semiaz

Is Debt Elimination for Real?

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I have seen a couple of websites claiming that cc companies are not actually lending you their money, they are lending you your own money using your signiture. According to these web sites, this is against the law and they have to forgive your debts. This sounds too good to be true. Anybody know anything about this tactic?

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The same websites that claim income tax is volutary?

The max they can forgive at last report is only $600. What many do after that is send you a 10-99 to file with the IRS as the remainder of the debt is now considered your income.

I've responded to your other post as well. I'm not sure if you got the wrong impression about this board, but this is not the place to come to if you're looking for a way to reneg on your financial obligations. We do not give out advice on how to skip on your valid debts.

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Everyone else who?

You're a mortgage broker. You know about HELOCs.

Do a search on debt consolidation companies and see how they scam and destroy a person's credit. Look at the problems people are facing with charge offs and collections.

You can't just simply tell them you don't feel like paying that amount. And you certainly don't want your credit to tank in order to make that scenario happen.

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Actually Doc, I think that was meant as a slam on the rest of the people here. I believe the OP was trying to call us all deadbeats.

To paraphrase the OP: "You are all trying to get out of paying, so can I. At least I am paying now, unlike you."

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I have seen a couple of websites claiming that cc companies are not actually lending you their money, they are lending you your own money using your signiture. According to these web sites, this is against the law and they have to forgive your debts.

Only 1 word for what these sites are pushing ... BULLSH*T !

Its all trash, pure and simple. These sites also claim that our entire banking industry is illegal and unconstitutional. They will try to SELL you info on how to use their 'method', the only one coming out ahead in their shell game is THEM.

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I'm not sure if you got the wrong impression about this board, but this is not the place to come to if you're looking for a way to reneg on your financial obligations. We do not give out advice on how to skip on your valid debts.
I see a bankruptcy section on this site. Are debts discharged through bankruptcy valid debts? How do you define bankruptcy? Is there a double standard at work here?
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LnR... with all due respect... You're Incorrect!

If there is a way to prove that all CC's are illegal and must be forgiven, post your evidence. Don't come on here and make unsubstantiated claims. Back them up.

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I've read thru most of the usual debt elimination 'schemes' and they ARE all crap. They are based on premises that are completely flawed and/or baseless.

The only TRUE and LEGAL 'debt elimination' is bankruptcy.. as close as it comes anyway.

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Are debts discharged through bankruptcy valid debts?

Yes, they are valid, bankruptcy does not invalidate a debt, all it does is remove an individuals PERSONAL LIABILITY for that debt and prevent collection. Technically you still owe the money, but the law prohibits them from EVER attempting to COLLECT that money.

Bankruptcy

The formal condition of an insolvent person being declared bankrupt under law.

Insolvent

A person not able to pay his or her debts as they become due. "Insolvency" is a prerequisite to bankruptcy.

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I see a bankruptcy section on this site. Are debts discharged through bankruptcy valid debts? How do you define bankruptcy? Is there a double standard at work here?

You have to qualify for BK - you can't file because you simply don't feel like paying your debts. Maybe you should read through that section.

Nice try though.

:roll:

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OK, I did a search for one of the sites named by the OP. This is what I found-they are trying to claim that when you sign a contract or promissory note, it becomes a negotiable instrument, which can be sold to other banks. They go on to say that this means you are making your own currency. Since it is illegal to make your own currency, the contract is null because it is illegal.

Whatever!

Read on:

http://www.nomoredebtnow.cc/

http://www.howtolegallyterminatecreditcarddebtyourself.org/

http://www.zerooutdebts.com/cc/UnsecuredDebtTerminationProgram.htm

Some of the things they claim are outrageous!

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Yup, read it all before, that's one of the most common schemes - banks don't loan you money, you're making your own currency, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Like I said all baseless or based on a flawed premise, none of which is recognized by the Feds or the States.

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LnR... with all due respect... You're Incorrect!

If there is a way to prove that all CC's are illegal and must be forgiven, post your evidence. Don't come on here and make unsubstantiated claims. Back them up.

I make no claims... where did I make a claim? I simply shared my opinion about an unsubstantiated statement. Where is the proof behind that statement other than "BULLSH*T!". The statement was made prior to my post. Seems as though the burden of proof first rests there.

You know it's very interesting how many posts I read here where OC's, CA's and attorneys intentionally misrepresent the law in an attempt to collect an alleged debt. Is that fairplay? Or how "valid" negative reporting to CRA's can be DV'd and Not Mine'd to death with the intention of having them removed through an obvious technicality/loophole in the system. But if any mention of certain legal alternatives to BK are mentioned, you hear the distinct sound of cocking shotguns. Any banksters on this board? It's very interesting to me... just an observation. :wink:

I do agree however, that knowledge is power.

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But if any mention of certain legal alternatives to BK are mentioned, you hear the distinct sound of cocking shotguns.

Absolutely not true. It's always been stated that BK is the LAST alternative from what I've seen. If you've found something to the contrary, then please post the link and we'll address it.

And don't confuse dissenting opinion with the sound of "clicking shotguns". We're always up for a good non-flaming (although sometimes heated) debate.

Fact remains that there are legitimate counselling programs out there, but the majority are scams and are being shut down one by one by the FTC. We don't promote using them not only because there are more bad than good, but because this is a self-help board.

Opinions, although not always popular, are always welcome here - but don't expect the nicest responses to them....

And yes, knowledge is power.

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Yes debt elimation is possible and I have done it. And I am very proud of myself for doing it. It has taken me over 3 years to do it. I did not use any one of those people that take your money I figured that if I have to paid them i can pay my bills.

You have to take a hard look at your financial budget and get a STRICT budget and stay with it. Now I get to go on VACATION twice a year and pay my bills at the same time.

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Actually, I never advocate BK. I never did it. The OP and yourself are advocating the "print your own money" thing. I just wanted to see something other thatn a screwy theory to support your contention.

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Actually, I never advocate BK. I never did it.

I certainly agree that BK is the absolute last resort for the financially devastated. BTW, I have NO RESPECT for anyone looking to use any of these remedies if it isn't absolutely necessary.

The OP and yourself are advocating the "print your own money" thing.

I know of only one Corporate entity that's allowed to "print your own money"... they call themselves The Federal Reserve Bank.

I just wanted to see something other thatn a screwy theory to support your contention.

Screwy theory is your opinion. What's screwy about using Federal Consumer Protection law to challenge the validity of an alleged debt? The laws were passed for very good reasons. Those laws and reasons are discussed here and implemented by Americans every single day... No surprise there.

Let me share an opinion of mine. My opionion is that involving oneself in a CCCS or some other consolidation program is beyond screwy theory, and in fact, qualifies as self abuse. Why would anyone want to delay the satisfaction of an alleged debt by years while at the same time relinquishing complete control over that aspect of their financial life to an industry who's incarnation was originated by and is continuing to be financed with fees and "donations" from the credit card banks themselves. Answer... Because bad education, lack of knowledge and mass marketing are powerful forces.

I await substantiation of the claim that using existing consumer protection law is BS. The only BS that I know is true, is the BS the credit card industry is spewing every day about the benefits of a debt ridden life. They really DO want people to work for them the rest of their days. My advice is to get out of debt as soon, and as best one can... LEGALLY... and with FINALITY! Then learn to make YOUR money work for YOU... not the banks.

A little added perspective: :roll:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/boomerbucks/20050323a1.asp

http://watson-training.com/resources/Final%20Report%2030%20Million%20Financial%20Distress.pdf

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/credit-management/20040120a1.asp

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

http://www.financial-education-icfe.org/financial_news_press_releases/2005/20050404_fact_sheet_on_junk_debt.asp

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My advice is to get out of debt as soon, and as best one can... LEGALLY... and with FINALITY! Then learn to make YOUR money work for YOU... not the banks.

very well put! I think, for the most part, that is the goal of everyone here! :D

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The links in your above post we are well aware of here. That is the purpose of this site, and every one of the senior posters here hsa used them in the past. What I am calling screwy is this theory:

I have seen a couple of websites claiming that cc companies are not actually lending you their money, they are lending you your own money using your signiture. According to these web sites, this is against the law and they have to forgive your debts. This sounds too good to be true.

I want to see actual statutory, valid case law or other competant evidence supporting this calim. Not some nutball website that probably has eyewitness accounts of black helicopters and UFO's on it.

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The links in your above post we are well aware of here. That is the purpose of this site, and every one of the senior posters here hsa used them in the past.

Excellent, then I think you'd agree that good information and due diligence is necessary before making definitive statements regarding specific programs. While I agree that many people CLAIM to have legitimate effective programs... many are not... and on the other hand... many are. The key is research.

Now let me address the OP...

I have seen a couple of websites claiming that cc companies are not actually lending you their money, they are lending you your own money using your signiture.

This statement is in fact true. The monetization of a consumers signature is simply the way our banking system works. While monetization in and of itself is not illegal, the contractural non-disclosure of this fact, coupled with the absence of tangible consideration and associated risk is what is in question here.

According to these web sites, this is against the law

See above...

and they have to forgive your debts.

This is incorrect... they forgive nothing... and 99% of the time they DO nothing to truthfully/actually answer your dispute, except misdirect and intimidate prior to charging off the debt. They're very careful to DO this on or before 180 days... as they DO NOT want to miss out on their tax write-off/"loss"subsidy. The important thing they DO NOT DO, is correctly and fully answer your rightful questions pertaining to the creation of the "debt". Although the laws under the FCBA require very specific answers to DV questions, for some odd reason they almost never respond with the correct answers. Why?... because they can't. Anyone know why this is? One thing they CAN DO is demand arbitration or issue a summons for a law suit. And they lose all the time... read the credit boards? Half the battle, as they say, is just showing up. And in the case of a law suit, no truer words were ever spoken. Truth is, they REALLY wish you wouldn't. Default judgements are so much easier you see. This is not new news of course.

This sounds too good to be true.

Man is now able to fly around the world in machines that are as big as a football field and weigh more than buiding. A person can communicate wordwide with thousands of other people in the blink of an eye. Men have actually walked on the moon. Until you know this is true... How would it sound? More importantly... What if its true?

Here's what one banker said to the other... "Someday we'll be able to loan people money that has no real value, with minimal if any risk to ourselves. We'll make money coming and going, in good times and in bad. We'll create something called the universal default clause that lets us raise the interest on our "loans" to 30% if our customer's one day late on ANY OTHER creditor's alleged debt... not just ours. And if we get into financial trouble, we'll have our government bail us out. Yeah, and then after we "make" enough money, we'll spend whatever's necessary to effectively negate those pesky old BK laws. We'll give 'em a Fresh Start allright. Start workin' for us boys and girls! We'll have most of the Western world working for us for decades out of their precious little lives. Oh... and if they can't pay us, we simply confiscate their REAL hard-earned assets. Sound too good to be true?"

I want to see actual statutory, valid case law or other competant evidence supporting this calim. Not some nutball website that probably has eyewitness accounts of black helicopters and UFO's on it.

I try to avoid unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. Without solid evidence and thorough due diligence I'm not easily swayed. Nor was I easily swayed during the initial stages of my research into the processes being discussed here. As I've stated... some are and some aren't. Do as I did if you really want to know. Assume you have a genuine interest in finding the information and go find it. Contact these companies and make them provide you with the data you need to make an informed decision. In the interest of keeping this a spam free discussion, I will not offer any specific recommendations. The laws are there for the reading. Start with the dispute process under FCBA. Imagine that you can dispute the entire debt and ask for very specific validation. Understand what constitutes a legal contract. That's where I started.

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