Is this considered a validation from a CA? HELP!

[ZphisticatedLady]

Greetings Everyone,

I sent a Debt Validation letter to a medical CA last month and below is the response from them. Is this considered a validation and if so, what do I do next, if not, what do I do next??

Since I sent this letter, they have added an entry to Transunion. At first they were only reporting the debt to Equifax and Experian. The debt is $200 and it past SOL.

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Dear Ms. XXXX,

I have your letter of March 18, 2005. We recognize that you are using a form letter that claims to show how you avoid paying debts regardless of the validity of the debt.

We thought, therefore, you might be interested in seeing the actual law upon wich you are attempting to rely to avoid this debt. 15 USC 1692g - Sec. 809 ( applies for a period of 30 days after you first receive notice of this claim from us. In this case, we sent the 30 day notice to you on November 30, 2000 to XXXX Address, Baltimore, MD 212XX.

The date of service that gave rise to this debt was a January 31, 2000 visit to Dr. Beaker's office. Medical Towers, LLC, the current billing and accounting group for Dr. Beaker, was formed after our first letter was sent. Their current address is XXXX, Maryland 211XX. Since our first letter we have tried many times to contact you by mail and 'phone, but, even though the mail was not returned, apparently have failed to find you. Our research shows thta you have had several different addresses in various parts of the country since the Baltimore address.

I want to state that we think, based on the information given to us by our client, this is your debt and this letter is verification of that debt under the Chaudhry rule (See explanation section of the text of FDCPA 809( attached hereto.) At the time of the office visit you gave your social security number (ending in XXXX) and your date of birth in Month of 19XX. The doctor's file is marked self pay. There appears to be no basis whatsoever for an allegation of fraud or violation of any law, federal, state or local.

Since we feel that the information we sent to the credit reporting services is accurate we must decline to delete or change those entries. We are attaching a copy of our collection license from the State of Maryland. California does not require a collection license.

Sincerely,

Robert Bonner

Executive Vice President

[Chancy949]

I have your letter of March 18, 2005. We recognize that you are using a form letter that claims to show how you avoid paying debts regardless of the validity of the debt.

and their collection letters aren't FORM LETTERS!!!

Someone will be along shortly, that can answer your question.

[Chancy949]

I'm curious which company, they must get a lot, since he recognizes them.

Oh and as for the case law he quotes there are posts here that counter it. I also think there are special laws they have to follow when its a medical claim.

You might have him on that one, also, check to see if you account is marked "in dispute".

[divemedic]

First, isn't it illegal in CA to attempt colleciton post SOL? I'm not sure, but I think it is.

Second, whether they think it is or not, they must mark the TL in dispute.

This is why I try not to make my letters seem form lettery.

[ZphisticatedLady]

I DV'd this company when I noticed they were on my CRA. They didn't send me a formal collection notice after the SOL. I just DV'd them cause I wanted them off my CR.

But regardless whether I use a form letter or not, I disputed the debt and asked them to validate it. What I am wondering is if the letter they sent me back would be classified as a "VALIDATION". They said it was, but they did not send me any paperwork showing that I owe this debt, just who the OC was and when the date of service was along with a bunch of nonesense that I am attempting to avoid this debt.

When I checked my CR on Privacy Guard, I noticed that a new account marked "Medical" was added to my TU CR for the same amount that this CA is reporting. So obviously they added a new entry to my CR when DV'd them.

So what do I do now?? I don't understand the laws.

[divemedic]

Whether they think they need to validate or not, they are still bound by the FCRA. They must place the dispute notice on the TL. Did they?

Read this. It may help.

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24558

You are now at the point where you type a letter telling them that they have not validated. Reiterate that you are disputing the account. The Chaudry rule is BS. There is more recent case law which is actually more pertinent than that. Especially if the bill is more or less than the one incurred at the Doctor's office. Look here:

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26481

If you are sure this debt is out of SOL, you are in good shape. Just make sure that your moving around hasn't tolled the SOL.

Another good thing about the letter that they sent is that they have admitted having multiple addresses on file for you. You can use that to your advantage in establishing that the conciously avoided knowing they were not dunning you.

There are a lot of issues here. Just DV them again, and make sure it doesn't sound like a form letter.

[ZphisticatedLady]

Divemedic,

According to the letter they responded with, did they validate or not? I'm not sure what constitutes a proper validation. Also, they did not place a dispute entry on my CR and according to their letter, they were not going to change any entries.

In regards to the debt being past SOL, from my understanding, the date listed on the credit report and from their "validation", the debt is from 2000 and in Maryland, the SOL is 4 years and its now 2005.

As for them having multiple addresses across the "country", that is BS, I've lived in one state since I left Maryland and that's California, so whatever research they claim to have done is beside the point. If they had the energy to do the research for a DV, they could have contacted me at whatever address they claimed me to be at.

So I'll send them a second letter requesting validation. Do I need to inform them that they have not validated? And if so, how do I state this since they came back at me with some Chaundry case? Also, since they have not changed the entry on my CR, do I need to inform this of this violation as well?

[Niner849]

That is in no way validation. DV them again. Proper validation would be something with your signature on it.

[CreditDiva]

is a medical collection considered written or oral or open.. I know is has been debated about, but don't feel I have a clear answer I have a CA from 2001, SOL. for VA..with 3 for oral and 6 for promissory..I started to offer a pay for delete but considered that it may really be SOL expired, should I state that in my DV letter or just offer a pay for delete for the entire amount..the amount is $77..I would rather just get the whole thing deleted rather going through the ringers with them..?

[divemedic]

Your signature is not always required. There are times when a signature isn't even available. That doesn't make the debt any less valid.

Utility bills, for example.

The note there is not validation.

[workinninetofive]

Your signature is not always required. There are times when a signature isn't even available. That doesn't make the debt any less valid.

Utility bills, for example.

The note there is not validation.

Very true! They can certainly prove you used the service.

[ZphisticatedLady]

So what do I do in this case. They have not proved the debt is mine.

Experian sent me their update by email and according to my dispute, the debt remains. This company has verified with Experian, but not validated with me.

So how is that possible? How do I prove to experian that they have not validated the debt?

[ZphisticatedLady]

I called the Medical Office today to ask them about the debt and see if I could negotiate to remove it. They still had my old addres on file, but I didn't verify that "it" was "my" address. I just told them I don't live that that addres.

Next, they stated that since the debt is so old and that it was sent to collections, that I would need to call them to verify it & settle the debt.

So what do I do now? Everything I have read on here said don't call the CA because you could restart the clock and in NO way do I wanna do that since this debt is 5 years old. But the debt is only $200 bucks and I could pay it today if needed, but I'm not sure what my next steps are.

Currently this CA is reporting on all 3 of my reports

Help?

[credit-nightmare]

I know in Maryland a promise to pay either written or oral or a payment can restart the closk , but im not sure if that goes for debts that are all ready past the SOL without a payment ? I wouldn't contact a CA until you are 100% sure it can't restart the clock .

[ZphisticatedLady]

Not sure what my next steps are.

The CA sent me the letter I posted above and when I called the OC, they told me to speak with the CA.

I don't want to contact the CA via phone, but if the letter they sent me constitutes a "real validation", then are my next steps to send them a letter to negotiate?

[ZphisticatedLady]

bump

[ZphisticatedLady]

I am ready to send out my 2nd DV letter, I'm still kinda iffy on if they properly validated or not. They never updated my credit reports to show the account was being disputed, so i know this is a violation against them.

But not really sure what I should say in my 2nd DV letter.

[gdouglaslee]

Sending a 2nd DV letter is pointless in your situation. You can dump this easily as soon as you take a position on this issue here:

In this case, we sent the 30 day notice to you on November 30, 2000 to XXXX Address, Baltimore, MD 212XX.

[ZphisticatedLady]

Not sure what you mean by this statement, what do you want me to do?

You can dump this easily as soon as you take a position on this issue here: In this case, we sent the 30 day notice to you on November 30, 2000 to XXXX Address, Baltimore, MD 212XX.

[gdouglaslee]

They claim they sent a dunning letter to that address. You never said if you were living there or not. If you were not living there, then you never received it, which would make your letter the inital communication or at least their response to your letter the initial communication. The first thing you look at when you receive validation is where it came from. If it did't come from the creditor, it can't be validation because the statute states explicitly that the CA must obtain verification from the creditor and forward it to the debtor. The Wollman opinion letter says the same thing.

You claim the debt is SOL, so use that to your advantage. Send a letter telling them the SOL has expired, that the Chaudhry letter violates 807(3), 807(9) and 807(10) (and if you weren't living at that address, tell them you were not and their letter violates 809(a) and 809() and if they do not delete the info from your CR then you will sue.

Wait at least 2 days after they receive it then call Joe Pro and tell him since he's so up on the FDCPA to check out 809(a)(3), which says that so long as you bring the action in good faith, you can't be penalized if you lose. Your point is that the debt is SOL, you aren't paying, and if they don't delete, you will sue, and they will spend $5k to $35k to defend the lawsuit, which they will lose (most likely on 807(3) and 807(10)) and even if they win, they can't recover their court costs or attorney's fees because you brought the action in good faith. So, if Robert Bonehead is any kind of executive, he'll cut his losses and run instead of spending $5k - $35k to collect $77 or what it was.

[ZphisticatedLady]

gdouglaslee,

Thanks sooooooooooo much for answering my question. I don't remember when or if they sent a letter, but according to the collection date on my credit report, they started collection efforts in August 2000 when I was living in California, so if they tried to collect at my old address in Maryland, I was not living there.

At time I went to see the Dr in early 2000, I was in college and under the assumption that my student insurance covered it. When I called the Dr's office last month to find out why there was a $200 bill, I was told that my insurance only covered $50 and I owed them $200 and because I didn't pay it, that's why it went to collections.

They funny thing about the collection date on my report, is that the collection didn't appear on my report from them until 2003, but even when it appeared, I never got a notice then. I just happened to check my report and BAM...there it was. To this day, they still haven't sent a formal collection letter or any notices, until I DV'd them and then I got a response.

Now that the collection is SOL, I will take your advice and write a response to them. I was going to do a MOV to the CRA to figure out how they verifed when the CA never validated. So should I do a MOV to the CRA or should I go ahead and write them a letter with the info you gave me to respond to them with?

[gdouglaslee]

Since you left the state you'll need to see if MD has a tolling statute before you do anything. If MD has a tolling statute the SOL stopped when you left the state then continued on when you return.

If you can prove that you lived in MD 3 years continuously or any combination of months that adds up to 3 years the debt is SOL. Look to see if MD has a borrowing statute also.

[ZphisticatedLady]

Not sure what those terms mean, but I haven't returned to Maryland. I left Maryland in May 2000 and I haven't returned since. According to my CR they started collection efforts on Nov 2000 and their letter states they sent a 30 day notice November 30, 2000, but I had already moved to California. So they sent a notice to a Maryland address 6 months after I had moved.

[breathing_easier]

Your signature is not always required. There are times when a signature isn't even available. That doesn't make the debt any less valid.

Utility bills, for example.

Or online applications.

[ZphisticatedLady]

I called EX & EQ and did a MOV via phone. They opened up another dispute, so I gotta wait 30 more days to hear anything. I'll keep everyone posted.