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Received 11th hour response from CA


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http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28291

I received a letter today which states that it is in response to a BBB complaint this is what the letter says.

Re: Your request for itemized statement account #XXXXXX Your complaint to the BBB

Dear Mr. X:

Enclosed please find an itemized statement on the above account. As I explained in my previous letter we are not required to furnish you the other information that you are demanding in your "Validation Letter". The original creditor in this matter is Pacific Bell/SBC. They remain the creditor to this day. The principal amount owing is $XXX.XX and the accrued and unpaid interest charges to date are $XX.XX.

Again I suggest that if you have a dispute on this account that you give us the information necessary for us to investigate the matter. We will undertake that investigation as soon as we receive the information previously requested or any other information that would help us to determine the validity of this debt. You have thus far not responded to these requests.

You have threatened to sue us on repeated occasions. We will take what ever actions are necessary to protect ourselves from any unwarranted lawsuit. We have sued debtors before who have sued us and lost and we will continue to aggressively protect and defend our reputation in any legal manner necessary.

Very truly yours

Rumple Smoothskin.

What’s really funny about this and sticks out most in my mind is the fact that they have this BBB reliability report.

http://www.bbbsilicon.org/commonreport.html?compid=215051&code=C6

With so many complaints they have already informed the BBB that they will no longer respond to complaints. Feel like a deceptive letter to me, I think they caught wind of me trying to file a complaint with these shamsters;

http://www.acainternational.org/consumers.aspx?cid=209

Which incidentally they refused to process the complaint, what a joke, I have a tracked record of that, thanks to a CC legal records email account.

The next thing is the fact that once again they are; well here let me just paste the letter I'm preparing to send them. These are at least my obvious thoughts at the moment.

Dear Rumple Smoothskin

In your letter dated April XX, you state that Pacific Bell/SBC is the original creditor, while this particular issue is not an item of concern; what is of utmost grave concern is my direct and first hand knowledge that Pacific Bell/SBC never assigned or authorized your company to collect this debt for them, which they agree should not be in collections. You purchased the debt; second or third hand and refused to validate the debt, now you have illegally perpetrated the act of obtaining confidential billing records of which your company has no legal basis or permissible purposes for these actions, not only have you willfully violated state and federal laws numerous times during our interactions and with regards to my credit status, moreover you have violated my constitutionally protected basic rights to privacy, through your desperate attempts to side step state and federal laws which consitute liabilities; on my behalf against your company, as well as the original creditor based on the Rosenthal Federal Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. I intend to stay on friendly terms with the original creditor, as they have expressed they would like the same and have sent me a letter stating that nothing with regards to this account should be in collections, and anything that may have been erroniously submitted to collections has been recalled based on the fact that there were disputes which commenced more than 11 months ago as to; any amounts due, and or charges owed on the account.

Your disguised attempts to appear that you are at this time attempting to be reasonable; in response to a BBB complaint I filed of which your company has had a total of 123 complaints, are again denoted; it is our knowledge based on communications and obtainment of additional information; that the BBB provides as a free public service; to consumers; that your company policy is as follows; the BBB states “Effective September 2003, We have been informed by Bay Area Credit Services that they will not be responding to any customer complaints brought to their attention by the Better Business Bureau. This decision was made at the advice of their legal counsel” It clearly appears that your attempts to communicate with me in the final hour after multiple violations of the FDCPA and FCRA, and notable sustained damages are a deceptive attempt to cause additional confusion and elude potential liabilities for your initial violations, bad practices and careless sloppiness; refusing to validate, not sealing confidential mailings, and generally duped statements, all items that I will clearly demonstrate should the need arise based on a careful meritorious and meticulous account of my dealings with your company.

Your communications to me are perceived as more positive, than worrisome. It appears you continue to invoke additional liability through your antics and shenanigans. You claim that I have threatened to sue you numerous times, and you; have yet to receive any intent to sue letter from me. Pointing out that I am informed as a consumer and understand that violations could constitute damages is considerably not the same as notifying someone of intent to sue. I’m somewhat baffled at your general poor knowledge of fair collection practices you have again committed further violations through your veiled threats to sue me.

In your letter you state “We have sued debtors before who have sued us and lost and we will continue to aggressively protect and defend our reputation in any legal manner necessary”

Threatening and attempting to intimidate your way out of willfully violating the law and my legal rights appears to be on par with all of my dealings with your company to date. It also coincides with the duality and vacillation of your position which is more than likely something that the courts will perceive as an attempt to manipulate state and federal laws in favor of your agencies poor practices with regards to this particular issue.

Lastly you state that you require I furnish you with additional information to investigate the validity of this debt, I’ve clearly stated to you in each of 2 letters I previously sent to you via certified mailing; that the debt isn’t owed. That is a very clear and non deceptive statement of fact on my part. Obviously you have perpetrated the act of illegally acquiring confidential billing statements with out authorization from Pacific Bell/SBC to attempt to collect this debt, and you were able to report the debt to the credit reporting company Experian. That clearly demonstrates that you have had at your disposal sufficient information to respond to my validation request which you’re now attempting to provide after numerous violations; in the final hour possibly realizing and making a rational retreat knowing that you are in jeopardy for your willful violations. Furthermore in addition you violated additional sections of the FCRA when you reported this debt to Experian by not including that the debt was disputed. I have copies of my certified mailings to your company showing that you received my previous letters, clearly disputing the debt and asking you to validate the debt all submitted and requested with in my legal rights in accordance with both State and Federal law.

Thus far, I have sustained damages by your illegal actions and practices. Lowering my good credit standing from Excellent to the category of Poor with Experian is an Issue I will reference as good cause for the fact that you have backed me in to a corner and left me no other means but to file suit against your company to protect my self and good credit rating. I am completely prepared to hold the line. Please understand that unless you withdraw and delete the item from my Experian credit report, you will leave me no other choice but to turn to the courts for a resolution in this matter. This should not be perceived as an attempt of a pending suit, but rather a last and final attempt to allow you an opportunity to release the bogus debt.

Lookie there at their last paragraph of their letter, they claim that I have threatened to sue them, I have yet to send them an ITS, YET they make veiled threats to me that they will counter sue me - also illegal for them to do, I just wonder how dumb these people are - they take this on for less than 120.00 for a debt that’s not owed. I contact the OC they agree that there was a dispute and it should have never been in collections, and anything that was has been recalled, I have learned in California that the Rosenthal Federal Fair Debt Collections Practices Act implies that the OC is also responsible for damages and bad practices of a CA. Just wondering when to drop the hammer on them or to see if the item the reported to EX which is currently in dispute actually gets deleted, They also failed to report it as *customer disputes* funny now they are trying to validate this debt after they have caused so much havoc for me.

Can anyone make sense of this situation? it has been consuming me, I doubt these idiots realize that I have other wise perfect credit reports with zero negative history, they have treated me like a dead beat who doesn't pay his bills, I'm very responsible and this account was disputed last summer and should not have ever been in collections, *I'm not about to pay for DSL charges for something they could never hook up and make work or an early termination fee* I could see all this if I had a few collection accounts here and there on my reports and various late payment history. They other thing that irks me is that I have a fraud alert, and have been a victim of identity theft now I get to deal with pond scum JPD's who some how managed to get their filthy hands on this debt that should have never been in collections, I wonder if these jokers have considered that I don't owe this debt, like I told them in 2 letters. What other information could they need? I just don't feel like dealing with them, I know they are tricksters and conduct themselves on the fence of compliance from just my basic knowledge of how this stuff works.

Help or suggestions are appreciated as always. SIGH..............

Is it just me or can any one else believe the antics and shenanigan of this clown? Should I send them my letter, or see if they verify with EX and just sue them? In their first letter they said they deemed my dispute irrelevant of frivolous, talk about the seesaw gang.

Sorry for the long post, at least it reads fast.

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Sorry it was a long post, so I didn't read it all. First, take a deep breath and calm down. I have heard CA's bluster and yell before. I have had them threaten to sue before. No big deal. I even had a CA call me on the phone. He told me, "I have lawyers waiting around for people like you. If you sue me, you will rue the day you messed with me. I will sue you into the poor house!"

I cashed his settlement check a week later.

That being said, I wouldn't send any long counter letter. As tempting as it is, long letters or discussions do nothing to help you and are a waste of time. Have you done 2 requests yet? With the 2 follow up disputes through the CRA? Are all TL's matching each other and do they match the paperwork he sent you? Do the TL's include a dispute notice? Is the debt within SOL?

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I agree with dive. They are huffing and puffing, but don't have the balls to try to blow you down. They are hoping you just roll over so they can get an easy default judgement or will just break down and pay. I too wouldn't go into too long of a letter in response to them.

I'd just say that I don't owe the debt, they know I don't owe the debt, and if they have proof I do to produce it. If they don't have anything, refuse to get the mark off my credit report in 5 days, and pay me for the damages, I'll sue them for everything, report them to the FTC, BBB, AG, newspapers, and elected officials. I wouldn't tell them of their violations, just take notes and let them accrue, then nail them in court.

It is not up to you to prove that you don't owe the debt. Innocent until proven guilty. If they don't have anything on it, then the debt doesn't exist. If the debt doesn't exist, or they can't prove it does, then all the collection activity, CRA reporting, etc... are violations. These mental giants seem to have confused FACTA/FCRA and FDCA.

Remember the validity of the debt is key. That is the linchpin that holds everything together. Attack it, and they won't have a leg to stand on, which btw should be pretty easy considering the OC doesn't have you down as owing anything. They can try to hide behind FACTA and make you prove that they are reporting inaccurately, but if the underlying debt is not valid, then they are up the creek. There is no defense to reporting inaccurately if they don't have an OC to say that you owe the debt. There is no way around it, no bona fide anything, especially since they are trying to push the issue.

Things to do:

#1 Do you have it in writing from the phone company that your account is not in collections or should have been? If you don't have that, get it in writing ASAP. I think they would have a hard time arguing that you owe them money when the OC doesn't agree.

#2 Have you been denied credit? If you really want to lay on actual damages, go get denied for stuff, lots of stuff. Submit 2 or 3 CC applications, go apply for a loan, hell go apply for AMEX Centurian, so you have documented proof that their willfully inaccurate reporting is causing you harm in excess of 1k.

These two things are key to attacking the debt. It shows that they are essentially trying to extort you with a baseless claim, and that you have suffered harm due to their willfully inaccurate reporting. Establish that, and you can roll everything else into it.

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Sorry it was a long post, so I didn't read it all. First, take a deep breath and calm down. I have heard CA's bluster and yell before. I have had them threaten to sue before. No big deal. I even had a CA call me on the phone. He told me, "I have lawyers waiting around for people like you. If you sue me, you will rue the day you messed with me. I will sue you into the poor house!"

I cashed his settlement check a week later.

That being said, I wouldn't send any long counter letter. As tempting as it is, long letters or discussions do nothing to help you and are a waste of time. Have you done 2 requests yet? With the 2 follow up disputes through the CRA? Are all TL's matching each other and do they match the paperwork he sent you? Do the TL's include a dispute notice? Is the debt within SOL?

I have sent 2 letters the initial DV and a followup, the amount of their dunning letter is different from what they reported to EX, the TL does not include a dispute notice! the debt is with in the SOL. But its still a debt that the OC agree's I do not owe, and should not be in collections.

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File that copy of your CR, and please make sure to get that in writing from the OC. That is a slam dunk case. Add in some declines for credit and you are golden with actual damages as well.

Thank you for your replies, CN47. Dive too. I appreciate it.

Yes I am waiting for information from the OC, based on this issue more than any other I have dealt with in regards to my credit I am becoming more empathetic to others facing problems.

I am actually waiting for a letter from the OC which states that the account has been recalled, I was verbally told that my 3 separate people and specifically insisted on a letter to have it in writing. They OC is some what to blame on this as well, they claim that they had inaccurate contact info for me after a move etc. Can you believe they attempted to charge me almost $1000.00 for DSL services that were never hooked up? Not to mention the issue of a service tech who came to attempt to work on the DSL hit on my wife and made lewd remarks and perceivable advances toward her, we should have just filed a police report and proceeded with a suit against SBC at that time, had I been a little more savvy we would of, the DSL tech support claimed when I called to chew them out that this guy was an independent third party they hired and it he was not directly employed under SBC. I'm amazed to see that this type of piss poor service could actually come back and haunt me at this time, and as I mentioned in a previous post we are process of a major purchase the fact that this is coming up in the middle should substantiate a loss, especially if the deal falls through over this.

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You need to be aware that all those items in the typical hard-ball validation letter are not required by the FDCPA to be given to you. The only thing they have to do for validation is confirm the amount owed as claimed by the original creditor. Now if it was to go to court, then you would be entitled to get all those other docs during discovery and their failure to have them will work towards you winning the case. Whenever I get this "we don't have to give you this" crap, I just remind them that they will have to give it to me if I take them to court over it.

If you dispute the balance you because it is actually wrong, you have to say why and be willing to prove it. (e.g. Balance was paid in full on x date). The FDCPA does have one major line that this turkey is forgetting: Section 809a(3) states that a debt collector may only assume a debt is valid if they do not receive a dispute. As soon as you dispute the amount, character, or legal status of the debt, they cannot assume it is valid. This leads to two violations if they report to a bureau...firstly, by violating the FDCPA section 807(8) by communicating information which they know or have reason to know may be false; and, section 623a of the FCRA for reporting information that they have reasonable cause to know may be false.

Lastly, do not use threat of legal action in your letters unless you fully intend to go through with it. If you threaten a child with a spanking and never actually spank the child it becomes an empty threat. Same goes for collectors...after the third threat they simply don't take you seriously.

As for this specific case, you should be calling your State telco regulating body to complain about being billed for services never installed.

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