what the hell is Mandatory Arbritration ????

[jojo67]

My SO just received paperwork from Walpoff and Abrams, aleging a "Mandatory Arbritation claim has been filed against him ??! At first I thought they were sueing but now I'm not so sure..... now what ?

I kind of get the feeling this is scare tactic, since they were sent limited C&D and can't call him anymore... they were calling repeatedly at work 2-3 times a day. that all stoped, only called the house once. Grrrr.

[nativechild48]

If this is about a credit card/loan, it is an agreement he signed into when he applied for the debt to have the account mediated. If the creditor wins, he will have to pay up and pay all of the legal cost...so it is similiar to a lawsuit.

[nativechild48]

JoJo67 here is some good reading for you on this topic:

http://debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16946

[jojo67]

well, in his case he is using the services of a debt recovery service so I'll forward it to them, I just wasn't able to handle his issues when this happened.

Thanks for the feedback, guess I need to get to work on the response... fat lot of good the arbritation will do, he has no extra money.... can they garnish from this ?

[nativechild48]

I guess we were posting the same time. As I said above Admin started an excellent topic on Mandatory Arbitration, and I think this info might answer some of your questions. Good Luck!!

[willingtocope]

Losing a Mandatory arbitration isn't the end of the line. They still need to get it turned into a judgement before it has a legal impact. Also, it may not have been in the contract your SO actually signed...some CCs, like MBNA, slipped it into the billing statements in the fine print.

ALSO...get him away from the debt recovery service scam. Read the post at http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26804&highlight=

These people are undoubtablely doing more harm than good and there is no way they'll do anything good about the arbitration thing.

[jojo67]

Losing a Mandatory arbitration isn't the end of the line. They still need to get it turned into a judgement before it has a legal impact. Also, it may not have been in the contract your SO actually signed...some CCs, like MBNA, slipped it into the billing statements in the fine print.

ALSO...get him away from the debt recovery service scam. Read the post at http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26804&highlight=

These people are undoubtablely doing more harm than good and there is no way they'll do anything good about the arbitration thing.

I know, but we had gone that route before I found this board. So far this one has been pretty good, and steped up for any occurance that has happened. I just got an email from UDR this morning stating they are sending a package from their legal resources department to respond to the arbitration.... so Hmm, who knows. For what it's worth, United seems to be a decent outfit in the scheme of debt recovery options anyway. It avoided the BK which is the most important for him right now. If everything goes well, I'll get my SSI disability back pay fairly soon and all will be paid in full, deleted negs negotiated of course. With my disabilities I couldn't handle taking on his creditors for the amounts he owes. I've done near miriacles with my credit, but most were under $300 collections or utility bills that I'd paid already.

The only thing i have on my CR's now is higher utilization, which will take care of itself soon.

[willingtocope]

Okay, I do try to keep an open mind about these things...can you tell us more about UDR? Web site? Payment options, etc.?

[jojo67]

Okay, I do try to keep an open mind about these things...can you tell us more about UDR? Web site? Payment options, etc.?

Sure, www.uniteddebtrecovery.com

We put money in a savings account, every month while they make the negotiations for us, handle all the problems with the creditors, and negotiate the payments at around 40-60% of the original balance. The amount we set aside is much less than the min payments we were trying to make.

Really what happened, we had medical expenses, the cards got up there pretty high ($38,000 or so) one of the cards (care Credit) took itself over limit by adding interest on, when it was suposed to be deferred, every other card went to default rate, lowered CL, and jacked everything else up. We couldn't even make the min payments any longer, we contacted creditors, asked for their help and looked into hardship, none of them would help, he was near BK, which would have destroyed him. He is very good on paying bills, never missed anything in the past. Had scores in the 750s or there abouts....... This whole process has been really hard on him. We found the best option, for him, with an option that works much better, and knowledge that the debts will be paid in around 3 years..... that is unless my SSI comes in, then everything will get paid, negotiated with PFDS on those accounts.

UDR takes fees out of the savings account, but I'm not sure how much they charge, I know it's dependant on the debt you put into the program.

I was willing to try to take his creditors on, but with my disabilites of late I can't handle that much stress, and neither can he.

[willingtocope]

Aw, geez, I was afraid of that. I've heard of these guys before, and it isn't pretty. I realize, as you said, the stress of dealing with this by yourself may have been more than you were able to handle...but...what's happened is you've only postponed it.

Now if your SSI settlement is indeed enough to buy your way out of this, you may be okay, but I'm not real confident this is going to work out well for you.

If you read that post I mentioned before... http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26804&highlight=

These guys come under category 2 of the credit repair scams. It only works if every one of your creditors play along. MBNA with their lackeys at W&A and their captive arbitrators at NAF is one of those that don't. I could be wrong, but I suspect UDR isn't going to have any better luck winning the arbitration than others have. I'm guessing that what's going to happen is that W&A will win their award and turn it into a judgement. UDR says right on their home page, they don't help with lawsuits.

I sure hope I'm wrong, and all this turns out right for you...but I think you need to monitor this every step of the way and if it gets even a little hinky, duck and cover...

[jojo67]

Thanks for the info, Willing... I am monitoring this very closely My hearing before the judge for SSI is June 7, which should clear most of the debt, mine included.... along with the 1100 bucks we have here.... I'm also pending re-evaluation on my VA claim, so hopefully that will help. I think this one will be ok, or should be... like you said, may be postponing the ineveatable, but at least giving me a stall right now until we can actually pay or settle the balance. MBNA that Wall and A$$ are collecting is 9,000 or thereabouts, though most is interest now. I'm keeping my eyes on these jokers.... and if worse case SO might still have to file BK, but I'm hoping to stall them enough so he doesn't

Even if there is a judgement, there is little or no disposable income right now, but in the next few months things can change.... he is taking on a weekend job, and I'm pending SSI and VA... Hopefully one will break loose since I can't work now. It's been a hard road this past year, with my mobility getting worse and worse, pain increasing, and just overall fatuige getting so bad. I hope with all my heart this won't ruin SO, but it's tough. I'm paying as much as I can toward this mess myself, but I only get $663 a month, and still have my debt to pay.

[ghacorp]

MBNA/W&A win most arbitration claims, so the bankruptcy option should be kept open. MBNA changed the terms of their accounts to arbitration a few years ago and notified customers in a statement stuffer. Continued use beyond a specified date signifies acceptance by the customer and it is legally binding.W&A are leaches and they represent some of the biggest JDB scourges in the industry such as UNIFUND/David Rosenberg and Great Seneca Financial. So, in reality when you deal with these parties you either end up settling and filing bk.

[jojo67]

<sigh> that's what I was afraid of.... The option of BK is very much open for him, but we are hoping things will be much happier in the future, not so distant and we can settle these things out and be done with them.... at which point I can start cleaning up this mess. The sad thing is we asked the CC companies for help, based on hardship. even if they had reduced the interest to it's original amount we would have been fine.... we wer making it, tight but making it. Now there is no hope outside of this option, and or BK. He is disabled too, but works. He does amazing things with only one hand, things I can't do with two... but to have to go through this really is wearing thin on him.... I wish I could do more, but the fact is I don't get enough to live myself and I pay what I can towards these debts.

He doesn't have any assets, barely enough money in the bank to get to the next check, He has lost his medical insurance now, because his employer is a jerk, and decided he didn't want to pay the benifits. In three years he has had 1 raise for a 100, meanwhile they started charging him for insurance, $156 a month, lost his dental, vision, and hospital coverage. Can barely afford auto insurance now, not to mention our renter's insurance..... but then I pay that. The cold reality of the economy now and it's probally going to get worse before it gets better, but I know it will get better, if he hangs trhough it...

[willingtocope]

Beleive me when I say I feel your pain...

On the one hand, access to the CCs money has helped get you through a bad time, but on the other, they won't help in repairing the damage. Its certainly admirable that you want to do "the right thing" by paying them back, but honestly, that's not what they want...they want the interest and penalties on the money they've loaned you.

You really might want to go have a talk with a couple of BK attornies right now. Get some opinions. Using your SSI disablity to pay the CC even a portion of what they say you owe may not be the best use of that money. You're going to need to live in the future, and those bucks would probably have a better use...

And, despite what Bush and his crowd says, most BKs are caused by medical related issues...not because us deadbeats don't want to live up to our obligations...

[jojo67]

Beleive me when I say I feel your pain...

On the one hand, access to the CCs money has helped get you through a bad time, but on the other, they won't help in repairing the damage. Its certainly admirable that you want to do "the right thing" by paying them back, but honestly, that's not what they want...they want the interest and penalties on the money they've loaned you.

You really might want to go have a talk with a couple of BK attornies right now. Get some opinions. Using your SSI disablity to pay the CC even a portion of what they say you owe may not be the best use of that money. You're going to need to live in the future, and those bucks would probably have a better use...

And, despite what Bush and his crowd says, most BKs are caused by medical related issues...not because us deadbeats don't want to live up to our obligations...

Good advise, and thank you very much.. 10k was for my dental work I needed to have done, well near 10k anyway..... last year after waiting for near 5 we (with his help) got my teeth taken care of so I could eat again, I've needed dentures for almost as long but couldn't afford it. Medicaid wouldn't help, VA was suposed to, but didn't... that of course covered the sergury to get my remaining teeth out first, so I do feel I owe some of it back.

[KentWA]

Just a word of encouragement if you do decide to go that way. I had to go that route about 15 years ago due to medical issues. You would be surprised at what a releif it finally was when it was said and done. We were feeling all guilty about filing and all. But afterwards we were able to go about life with a level of relief you can not believe.

I never recommend it for those just trying to get out of debt, but the situation you relate indicates that not only have you been struggling to get by, but giving these leeches money that is intended to help you live. Remember you are not paying back the people who loaned you money, W & A and the leech they work for has paid the OC already. You are just lining their pocket.

If you feel you want to pay back a dentist that did a lot of work for you and it is not a debt that has been sold off (med debts are almost never sold to JDB) there are some alternatives with BK. First is to reaffirm that debt in BK, the second is to just quietly pay them (Not their CA) after BK has closed.

[jojo67]

Well, I wanted to update everyone on this situation...... and offer some advice for others in the same boat as we are.

We had opted to use United Debt Recovery for my SO's debt. Well, as time has gone on we are exactly where we were trying to avoid. My SO is now in the process of discussing BK with a lawyer!!!! If you are tempted to use some service like UDR, DON'T They won't stop the collection calls, they won't stop anything! All they manage to do is take your money for fees and do almost nothing for it! What a scam! Here we have paid near $3,000 to these jokers and every day Arrow Financial calls, wanting to talk to SO. They call @ work, @ home, all the time. MBNA has filled "Mandatory Arbitration!" (Walpoff and Abremson) They want fees to do that, fees we just don't have. We tried to comply with their program and got nothing in return but a feeling of being used for doing what we thought at the time (before I found this board) the right thing and pay these a$$'s off! Now we do face BK for him, since there is no hope. UDR made things far worse than they had to be for us. and the stress is out of hand. It has near ruined our relationship. I'm willing to help him fight, but he is simply ready to give up. At this point BK is our only hope to move on and recover.... Hopefully the damage to our relationship isn't too bad to recover. It has almost ruined a good man for nothing! Other folks, please take heed in this! If it looks like you can't make it, and are looking for options, contact a consumer law firm and get real advice that you can trust, don't listen to the BS of some agency like United Debt Recovery! We are out $3K and the attorney wants another near $1k to file BK, so in all, $4k we could have used elsewhere, like new glasses we both need. Hell, we have had to hold off buying him new socks because we just didn't have the money.... The past year has been hard, and we tried so hard to make it.

Jojo

[Methuss]

Check out the "refusal of mandatory arbitration" thread in the lawyer section.

There are a number of ways to deal with arbitration crap. First is on a constitutional level because the arbitration clause denies you your constitutional right to the use of the courts. Another is if the arbitration clause was added after the account was opened. There is case law that makes these add-on provisions unenforceable because they make too great a change to the terms on the account.

Whatever you do, avoid actually having arbitration. What noone has mentioned so far is that in arbitration, the arbitrator is not required to follow the letter of the law, any sort of court procedure, or even rules of evidence. In most cases the person paying the arbitrator's fees at the beginning wins (then forces the looser to pay the arbitration fees which can be thousands of dollars).

As for the BK....really if he is in over his head, this would be the time to move forward with it. In just a few months he may not be able to file for a full discharge because of the recent changes to the BK laws. Do a search for a reply I posted about considering BK and how to guage if you really should file or try to stick it out. That will help with deliberating your options.

You don't need a lawyer to file BK (although it does help make it easier). you can get a kit over at the local OfficeMax with all the forms and instructions for about $15. If your BK is simple with no re-affirmations then this might be your best bet. You'll still have to pay the filing fee with the federal court, but at least that's not a grand.

[jojo67]

Check out the "refusal of mandatory arbitration" thread in the lawyer section.

There are a number of ways to deal with arbitration crap. First is on a constitutional level because the arbitration clause denies you your constitutional right to the use of the courts. Another is if the arbitration clause was added after the account was opened. There is case law that makes these add-on provisions unenforceable because they make too great a change to the terms on the account.

Whatever you do, avoid actually having arbitration. What noone has mentioned so far is that in arbitration, the arbitrator is not required to follow the letter of the law, any sort of court procedure, or even rules of evidence. In most cases the person paying the arbitrator's fees at the beginning wins (then forces the looser to pay the arbitration fees which can be thousands of dollars).

As for the BK....really if he is in over his head, this would be the time to move forward with it. In just a few months he may not be able to file for a full discharge because of the recent changes to the BK laws. Do a search for a reply I posted about considering BK and how to guage if you really should file or try to stick it out. That will help with deliberating your options.

You don't need a lawyer to file BK (although it does help make it easier). you can get a kit over at the local OfficeMax with all the forms and instructions for about $15. If your BK is simple with no re-affirmations then this might be your best bet. You'll still have to pay the filing fee with the federal court, but at least that's not a grand.

Thanks for the input.... funny, UDR told us that the arbritration was the best thing to happen for us.... the lawyer said otherwise.... I think at this point BK with a lawyer is our best bet, tor the pure stress reduction. SO and I both have anxiety issues, compounded by the extreme stress and our current disabilities. I know he will have to appear for the "first meeting" but there is no way either one of us can get through the paperwork to file properly in hopes of full discharge. The lawyer is probally our best bet, and we have the money to pay him, thanks to the UDR settlement account we set aside. You all should see the letter the Harassment specialist from UDR wrote.... what a joke ! Most of the letters here are far better. Actually I'm surprised she actually emailed it to us, but she did actually send them on.