Dealing w/ Wolpoff and Abramson

[TitansFan]

These guys contacted me a couple of months ago regarding an old credit card. I didn't bother sending a debt validation letter b/c I do owe the money and want to pay them (plus, I'm within the SOL). The amount of the debt is around $1,600. I offered them $900, but they said $1,300 is the lowest they could go. I held my ground and said no, $900 is all I can pay. They said they couldn't do that and my "pre-law" status debt would go to one of their attorneys for review.

A few days after my conversation with them, I mailed a settlement letter offering the $900 in writing. I mailed the letter certified/return receipt requested. They received my letter on 3-31-05. ]

I have not heard back from them yet. Do you think they will respond to my letter? Should I call them back and offer more in settlement?

I can't stand these people and want them out of my life. I definitely don't want to go to court and have a judgement against me. How should I handle this?

Thanks

[jeffr]

How old is this debt? Is it past the SOL for your state? If it is, tell them to hit the road! If not, just pay them the $1300. Take it from me, they WILL NOT deal with you! They will sue also...Wolpoff and Abramson are nasty collectors! Make sure you get the settlement terms in writing, with a valid attorney signature form Wolpoff BEFORE you pay the $1300.!

[willingtocope]

Whoa...back up the boat.

Just because someone sends you a letter saying "hey, we know you owe a credit card, and we're collecting...send us the money..." doesn't mean you write out a check. Its admirable that you want to pay what you owe, but these guys aren't neccesarily the people you owe it to.

The whole purpose of the DV process and the FDCPA is to force the CA to play by the rules and prove to you that they have the right person, the right amount, the right account, and the right to collect the debt. W&A hasn't done that yet. Yes, they do play rough but only because they intimidate people into doing things they may not have to.

For example, how "old" is the CC debt? Is it beyond the SOL for your state? Is W&A collecting for the OC, or did they buy the debt for pennies on the dollar and now are trying to hassle you into paying them money you don't really owe them?

You need to look into these things...

[TitansFan]

Okay, here is a little more info.

I live in Tennessee and I stopped paying on the credit card back in 2000. I believe the SOL for my state is 6 years so I am approaching that date.

As far as who owns the debt, the letters, I received from W&A have this written:

"Re: SHERMAN ACQUISITION ll LP, ASSIGNEE OF COMP USA

My name

As you are aware, this law firm has been retained by our above-referenced client regarding this delinquent obligation.

It is important that you call us at 210-386-3900, or toll free at 1-800-678-0303 to discuss this matter."

So, they don't own the debt? They are just assigned to collect it?

I know many of you are not afraid of collectors like this, but I am worried about being sued and having a judgement brought against me. The DV process scares me, but if that is what I should do, then please explain to me what the steps are and what W&A's response might be. I would hate to make the idiots angry.

What about tape recorded conversations? They probably have me on tape offering them the $900 in settlement. I did tell them to make sure the record shows that I did offer them a settlement of $900.

I just don't want a lawsuit and judgement brought against me.

Thanks.

TitansFan

[ghacorp]

They are tough and basically if you can settle with them for $1300 it would be a good idea. Another option is to pay them nothing. Apparently your debt was acquired by Sherman a bad debt buyer and that's who hired them to collect. I can speak from personal experience. I was sued by W&A a few years ago on another JDB--Unifund. The matter is still tied up in court over the counterclaims, ignorance to validate before filing suit and so on. Wolpoff and company are crafty liars as they had their client file an affidavit with the court that they were never required to validate and should not be held in compliance because they are a law firm and not the OC or the collection agency. Be aware that junk debt buyers can be much worse than than OC's because their business is all about buying your charged off debt for a penney or two on the dollar and then proceeding to win judgments against consumers and then attempting to lien your real estate holdings, etc. Fortunately though my purported debt was too large for small claims and rules of civil procedure in the higher courts are greater. Most people don't seem to realize that small claims courts are easier to prevail in and often defendants aren't even aware of the complaint until after a judgment has been awarded and the piper shows up to collect!

[jeffr]

They are tough and basically if you can settle with them for $1300 it would be a good idea.

I agree fully! Settle with them for the $1300. I too was sued by W & A. They received a judgement and refused to lower the amount they won, even if I settled with them and gave them a lump sum payment! They even went so far as to garnish wages!

Don't fight these people. They will rake you over the coals!

[DocDon]

Coppola v. Arrow Financial Services, 302CV577, 2002 WL 32173704(D.Conn., Oct. 29, 2002) – Information relating to the purchase of a bad debt is not proprietary or burdensome. Debtor must phrase their request clearly to obtain: The source of a debt and the amount a bad debt buyer paid for plaintiff’s debt, how amount sought was calculated, where in issue a list of reports to credit bureaus, and documents conferring authority on defendant to collect debt.

What if they only paid $200? They want $1300 and will get it just because they're attorneys and can use (manipulate) the law to their favor? Kiss my d*ck. You paid $200, you get $200.

[nolo]

FWIW, W&A will back off and go away just like any other debt collecting jackasses. I've DVed them and CDed them on two different occasions and 4 years down the road, they still haven't sued me.

Don't assume anything. If the debt is yours and you can afford to settle it, go ahead but don't let these clowns scare you. They are just like all the rest.

[jeffr]

What if they only paid $200? They want $1300 and will get it just because they're attorneys and can use (manipulate) the law to their favor? Kiss my d*ck. You paid $200, you get $200.

I agree. These creditors are getting smart however. Instead of just hiring some regular ol' CA, their going straight to hiring attorneys. If you owe the money, settle for the $1300 and be done with it. You do have 1 year to your SOL runs out...you could hold out, but I still think W&A will come after you full throttle. Just my 2 cents....

[DocDon]

True. They're using attorneys who under many state laws are considered CA's. An OC using an attorney/CA is one thing.

However, when selling accounts to JDB's it's nothing more than an unethical abuse of power, motivated out of pure greed (none of this "well, there's no law making it illegal" BS either) and the practice needs to stop.

[willingtocope]

Back to TitansFan's last questions:

Even if they do have you on tape offering money (which is not at all certain...CA sometimes claim to be recording just to scare you) you can still carry through with the DV process. The FDCPA is built around the "least sophiticated consumer" and you would be within your rights to claim that they intimidated you and you didn't know what your rights were.

Furthermore, paying these guys does not mean the problem goes away. If they have purchased the debt, then the OC's tradeline is still on your credit reports with a "charge off / sold to another lender" entry which is a serious ding.

Secondly, if you do decide to pay them you have to be very careful to make sure that they agree in writing to clear their entries off your reports and that the payments settles the debt once and for all and will not be resold to someone else.

The problem with paying CAs and JDBs is that once they smell money and find a person willing to cough it up, they keep trying for more...

[LadynRed]

TitansFan,

I too am in TN and I got a letter from W&A bank on 12/1/04. They were attempting to collect on an old FUSA account that Palisades had purchased. Now, I had 2 FUSA accounts, both about the same amount, both went bad about the same time in late 2001. So, when these dipwads sent their dunning letter, it was seriously lacking in details. There was NO acount information, nothing but 'Palisades says you owe $xxxx.xx for a FUSA debt....'. Well, I DV'd them alright, sent my letter on 12/20, they got it on the 23rd. TO THIS DAY I've not heard a SINGLE THING out of W&A except for a lame 'settlement offer' they sent a few days after I DV'd them, which I ignored.

They CAN be beaten. My debt was around 5K, still not sure which one they were after, but there hasn't been a peep outta them, no more letters, nothing. They can't call me.. unlisted phone.. but even so, nothing more from them. Palisades didn't buy all the info to validate and W&A sure as hell can't validate, not on a 4+ year old debt.

I would DV them anyway.

[TitansFan]

Thanks for all the replies!

If I do DV them, what are the steps to do so? What should the letter say (I'm sure there are samples out there)? What kind of response, if they do respond, can I expect from them?

Thank you.

[jeffr]

They CAN be beaten.

No they can't, and you won't! If you think you've heard the end of them, good luck! It will just be a matter of time before they file suit.

[nolo]

Thanks for all the replies!

If I do DV them, what are the steps to do so? What should the letter say (I'm sure there are samples out there)? What kind of response, if they do respond, can I expect from them?

Thank you.

One of their favorite tricks is to threaten arbitration. They've threatned me twice with binding arbitration and both times they backed off when I called their bluff. Both debts are old and they don't have the proof they need to make their case stick. They know it and I know it.

These guys are tough and they should not be underestimated BUT they are still just another collection entity, subject to the FDCPA like all the rest. If you owe the debt and can afford to settle it, do it. These guys are no fun to mess with and they DO file lots of lawsuits/arbitrations.

Just don't let them push you any further than any of the rest of their kind. They are nothing special, that's for sure. Good luck to you.

[computerguy]

Thanks for all the replies!

If I do DV them, what are the steps to do so? What should the letter say (I'm sure there are samples out there)? What kind of response, if they do respond, can I expect from them?

Thank you.

Here's one I've used with good success! Just substitue the right information in where you see the parenthesis and then remove the parenthesis.

WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P.

Two Irvington Centre

702 King Farm Blvd.

Rockville, MD 20850

(Date of Letter)

Re: Your letter received (Date Received), Acc# (Acc# Referenced on letter)

Greetings: WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P.

(Your Name Here) has no records that verify WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. or (Person who signed dun letter) have loaned (Your Name Here) any monies. Therefore, (Your Name Here) cannot be held libel to pay a debt that does not exist. Please verify and validate this alleged debt. I will assume this debt to be invalid until (Your Name Here) receives proper validation of it in a reasonable amount of time. According to the FTC a reasonable time for validation is 30 days. I reject your demands for Arbitration and demand you produce the Contract Agreement for my review that would show (alleged Creditor's name here) and my signature binding us to any Arbitration agreement.

WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. is advised that (Your Name Here) does not wish to receive any phone calls regarding this matter. If any calls are received (Your Name Here) will file a complaint against WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter) with the FTC for a violation of the FDCPA.

Please be advised:

WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter) have assumed there is a debt prior to proper validation. A notice stating, “Respondent is indebted to the Claimant "presented as an allegation posted by WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter) is a falsity, which is presumed to be true. And, therefore exposes WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter) to a lawsuit for defamatory libel.

Furthermore, WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter)’s correspondence appears to be a scheme devised for obtaining money under false pretenses. See Title 18 Section 1341 (Frauds and Swindles)

Pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, (Your Name Here) hereby disputes WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON, L. L. P. and (Person who signed dun letter) ‘s debt collection related allegations, denies the same, and demands strict proof and validation thereof. This dispute, denial, and demand are made in accordance with federal law.

Best Regards

(Your Name Here)

[LadynRed]

No they can't, and you won't! If you think you've heard the end of them, good luck! It will just be a matter of time before they file suit.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. They CAN be beaten and they HAVE been beaten by other people. Its not a walk in the park, nor is it a slam dunk, but it DOES happen. They are not omnipotent, they don't have special powers and they are NOT above the LAW. If they break it, and they sure as hell do, then you can nail them for it.

These bozos have NO PROOF of what they claim to be collecting for, they know it and *I* know it. They cannot pull the arbitration card, the account I suspect they're after was opened AND closed in less than a years time and long before arbitration clauses were being added to credit card agreements.

I've never been a fan of just rolling over and giving up just because they are bigger. David brought down Goliath with a slingshot and a stone -- all it takes is a well-placed hit !