DV the City of San Diego for tickets???

[Bjoeboo]

I have 4 "paid past 180 days due" parking tickets on my Experian CR and where it normally has CA name it only says "City of San Diego" The CR lists "Date Opened" on these items as: 06/2001, 08/2001, 08/2001, and 09/2001 respectively. I'm pretty sure that I can not DV the city can I? Should I goodwill letter them? Ask nicely to please take off my CR? Do I just dispute items with CRA and pray?

Any suggestions? Anyone been through similar experience with their city/county/state etc.? These same accounts used to be on both TUC and EXP CRs when I did a 3 bureau pull in 2002. Now for some reason (nothing I did) they're only on EXP CR. Did the city take them off TUC CR? Should I ask them to do same with EXP CR? or just shut the f** up about it and wait SOL..

Any suggestions?

[Chancy949]

UHHHHGGG!! City of San Diego!!!!! EVIL!!!

We traded in our car back in feb 2001 and the dealership sold the car a few days later and it got a PARKING TICKET!!! We fought with them and fought with them and the dealership said they didn't own it blah blah blah. I had to get proof of my bill of sale from the state before they would remove it. Ofcourse we moved out of state about 6 months after we traded it in, so we didn't even know we had the dang ticket! We found it on our credit report!

You can DV them if you want, but they are wicked evil. I tried to tell them we didnt owe it and she DID NOT CARE! Only after I provided proof that I didn't OWN the dang car, did they remove it.

Good luck. 8)

[Traelyn]

I am currently in the DV process with the City of San Diego for parking tickets that have been PAID IN FULL and yet are still being reported as charge-off installment accounts. I believe that the City Collections Division must adhere to the Rosenthal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, just like any other debt collector. I have an email in to the State Attorney General's office for more info. I have disputed these items to the CRA and provided copies of payment receipts ... so if the CRA continues to lsit the item erroneously, I think I may have legal actions available against the CRA.

[Bjoeboo]

Please let me know how it goes. I'm especially intersted in the AGs answer, or anything else I could use to ding them on to have this discrepancy corrected.

[divemedic]

The FDCPA only applies to consumer debt. Parking tickets are not consumer debt, therefore the FDCPA does not apply here.

[Lisa71]

I have 3 from them, they are all paid also. If you have any luck with them please let me know.

[Lisa71]

I have 4 from them also and I tried to get them to take them off and they are really nasty. Here is part of what they wrote me:

"Again, the California Vehicle Code sets the standard for notification of

parking citations by all issuing agencies throughout the state. Our records

substantiate that the City met that standard in this case. Notices were sent

in the manner required. Credit reporting of the account information was

consistent with the relevant law, credit reporting industry standards, and City

policy, attached. In addition, the information reported accurately reflects

the history of your account. We are in agreement with credit reporting

standards. Therefore, collection accounts are not removed from credit reports

simply because they were eventually paid. That type of action would not allow

creditors to view an accurate history of the manner in which a person resolves

their debts. While I understand that you may not be satisfied with this

outcome, I find no justification to remove the credit information as you have

requested. This decision is final. "

[Bjoeboo]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. Pretty sure they were mine. I remember having to pay them off before I could register my truck. Exp just concluded their investigation and told me they are now removed.

Humph! Go figure. I disputed them on Experian's website as "not mine". click.click. A month or so later bye bye all gone!

Now the big question is will they come back?

I don't think the city is that adamant about screwing people over (after all they're not crap1) Maybe since they were old and paid for, the city didn't keep records of them? Who knows... Who cares!

Now all I have left is crap1 (SOL in Sep.)

and a more recent one just hit my EXP CR from Palisades CA from a freakin $99 AT&T Chargeoff. That ones going to be tricky..

(Of course we're not counting the one with chexsystems (ratt bastards))

[Lisa71]

WOW! Lucky you, congrats!!!!

I give up on them, hopefully, I get lucky but they have already verified and I tried to get City of SD to take it off but they are not nice.

[Bjoeboo]

How recent are the tickets? Mine are from 2001. Maybe you have to wait for them to box-up or backup and put stuff in storage or something..

I mean seriously: These are City employees were talking about. Do you really think they're going to have old crap from 2001 at their fingertips? Or the inclination to go retrieve it wherever its at? Much easier just to not answer the CRAs SSB2. "That's not my job" Ya gotta luv it!

[Lisa71]

I have 2 from 2001, 1 from 1/2002 and the other from 11/1999-i think that is a library late fee or something, I just paid them all in 2003 when I went to Cali on vacation and they happened to call my ex's mother's house and I happened to answer the phone, lol.

[Bjoeboo]

I pulled my Experian. Evidently City of SD validated. I guess they didn't validate within the 30 days so the TL was removed, but when they finally got around to validating the TL was re-added. Oh well, at least I don't see them on my TUC anymore. I'll wait a couple months and dispute again.

Nobody knows how to get rid of this TL? If they are reporting on my CR doesn't that make them actionable under the FCRA? How the hell could they validate I never signed anything when I got a parking ticket. How is this legal? *sigh*

[Lisa71]

Aw, that really stinks, they are not the nices of people to deal with as you can see by that letter they sent me. $hit I paid the darn ticket give me a break.

[Traelyn]

After I disputed the accounts (tickets) with the City and the CRAs several times and the items were repeatedly validated, I sent deletion demand letters to both the City and the CRAs. Once again ignored.

I contacted a local attorney and Donna Frye's office for assistance. Shortly after that (which was over 3 months into the dispute process - and well over 30 days since my deletion demand letter), a Supervisor from the Collections Division emailed me an long letter. In that letter, they finally agreed to delete 3 of the 5 disputed accounts. However, they marked one of the accounts as "paid" and left one as unpaid. She somewhat confirmed that previous payments I had made had not been applied to the citations I made them for (which is illegal as well), and claimed to have re-allocated the funds to close the accounts.

In this letter, there were now 3-4 "other" unpaid citations from several years ago that I knew nothing about. These may possibly be from a vehicle I sold several years ago. I forwarded all this information to my attorney and we recently filled a claim agaist the City for both actual and statuatory damages due to the repeated validation and reporting of erroneous account information to the CRA after I disputed the accounts back in April/May. The city has 45 days to respond to the claim.

[Bjoeboo]

Traelyn 2 questions::

Did you get SD derogs removed?

Who's your lawyer?

I'm so mad I could spit!!

How's this for a tease:

I have opened another dispute (2nd time now disputing same TLs)

with EXP for FIVE yes 5! parking tickets paid late.

For the duration of dispute EXP has changed these TLs to "pay status: current"

My Truecredit.com score shot up 116 points!!!!!

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!

(see my scores)

When this investigation concludes they (SD) will validate and score will go back down.

The part that angers me most is that San Diego is acting illegaly. WHAT THE HELL DOES PARKING HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIT WORTHINESS??

I don't remember being extended credit to pay the meter...

I don't remember signing any agreement for parking....

City SD just assumes to be owed money with no written agreeements to prove or disprove the claim.

How do they get away with this? How can a municipality be allowed to stretch the limits of reality so far as to assume that a drivers license &/or registration means having parking credit extended... regardless of who was / wasn't / or might have been operating or even owning the vehicle at the time...

Is it just me???

Am I going crazy.....?

Can anyone say class action??

As if the city isn't involved in enough fiscal improprietaries...

[DocDon]

The part that angers me most is that San Diego is acting illegaly. WHAT THE HELL DOES PARKING HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIT WORTHINESS??

Legalized extorsion? Holding your credit hostage to make you pay up?

Some genius proposed the idea to municipalities that they can collect revenue owed to them by sending you to collections. The idea was researched by city management and counsel looked for law forbidding it, and it was approved.

BUT that's probably all they were told - they don't understand how credit scoring works, nor did they even consider investigating that aspect. You'd have to believe if they did, common sense would prevail (HAHA) when they realize the damage a collection entry does and for how long.... over a $15 parking ticket.

This is what they failed to consider: a parking ticket is more often than not a violation of City Ordinance. As such, there are penalties imposed for said violations. Once the penalities are satisfied (ie: you pay the ticket), that's the end of it. By reporting such collections to the CRA's, your penalty has now increased from simply paying the imposed fine, to an additional 7 years of "punishment" just by having that negative information on your reports. That's where the practice could be illegal, simply because the ordinance does not approve of such an imposed penalty...

If municipalities are going to use the CRA's to help collect on these things, then the same outcome should apply as it does when you pay the fine - the entry is removed from your credit report (which will be fought tooth and nail by the CRA's because of the myth they spread that information cannot be removed from your reports.... PFD).

[Traelyn]

The part that angers me most is that San Diego is acting illegaly. WHAT THE HELL DOES PARKING HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIT WORTHINESS??

I don't remember being extended credit to pay the meter...

I don't remember signing any agreement for parking....

City SD just assumes to be owed money with no written agreeements to prove or disprove the claim.

How do they get away with this? How can a municipality be allowed to stretch the limits of reality so far as to assume that a drivers license &/or registration means having parking credit extended... regardless of who was / wasn't / or might have been operating or even owning the vehicle at the time...

Is it just me???

Am I going crazy.....?

Can anyone say class action??

As if the city isn't involved in enough fiscal improprietaries...

Currently the City is in the midst of a major financial crisis. They are looking for every dime thay can find - by nearly any means necessary. The most unfortunate fact is that the Collection Divisions accounting is so ridiculously in inaccurate that they have already had to settle a class action lawsuit in recent years. It only further ruins the reputation of the city to use debt collection practices that would be considered illegal for any other consumer debt.

Bottomline: The FDCPA does not apply to parking tickets as they are not considered consumer debt. Therefore, they are not required by law to validate the debts as would be required of any other consumer debt collector. (§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]) The fact that parking citations are not considered consumer debt, does not preclude the information from being reported on your file with the CRAs, however. The Fair Credit Report Act (FCRA) applies to the accuracy of the information reported on your file(s). Is the information accurate? If the information is not accurate, do you have documentation to PROVE that the information provided is inaccurate? That is where you have to start. If you can prove that the information is inaccurate, I would be happy to forward you the name of the attorney I use.

My original account listings were inaccurate and I had receipts to prove that the citations had been paid for BEFORE the items were reported to the CRA. I sent copies of my proof to the City and the CRA on multiple occasions. Eventually, the city deleted most of the listings - but I had already been denied credit based on the inaccurate information. My case is still pending and will likely drag out for at least 6 months. Not fun.

[DocDon]

They may not be a consumer debt, but having negative information impact your personal finances negatively for 7 years (also taking into account your cards with Universal Default) may be viewed as excessive punishment. The way scoring/risk work, even after you pay the ticket, you're still being punished.

I believe these things can be successfully argued that way. As I said, if it was a violation of a city ordinance, the penalty would not only have to be clear, but fair.

I guarantee you there is no stipulation for this 'punishment' in the ordinance. Therefore...... illegal. What parking violation carries a 7-year penalty? How about your interest rates on your other cards being jacked up because of the collection on a parking ticket? How about being refused housing because of a parking ticket?

[Lisa71]

Well, you have all made great points but these people have not budged, they even wrote me a nasty letter because the information is accurate.

But its a PARKING TICKET and it is PAID, let it go already.

Why pay for it to be reported? I guess they are trying to make a point and maybe by sending them letters we are helping them keep their jobs, it gives them something to do.

[DocDon]

They can claim whatever they want.

I'm saying you (and others) possibly have a good case against these cities because the end-result-imposed-penalty is extreme and NOT approved by the very ordinance that authorizes their employees to impose the fine.

The issue is, if it goes to collections, and it's reported, fine. It gets paid and it gets deleted. There is NO parking ticket worth 7 years of financial penalty. Period. End of discussion.

Think about it.

[Bjoeboo]

Traelyn 2 questions::

Did you get SD derogs removed?

Who's your lawyer?

I'm so mad I could spit!!

How's this for a tease:

I have opened another dispute (2nd time now disputing same TLs)

with EXP for FIVE yes 5! parking tickets paid late.

For the duration of this dispute EXP has changed these TLs to "pay status: current"

My Truecredit.com experian score shot up 116 points!!!!!

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!

(see my scores in signature)

When this investigation concludes they (SD) will check some boxes in a EXP SSB2 form and my score will go back down again as before.

The part that angers me most is that San Diego is acting illegaly.WHAT THE HELL DOES PARKING HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIT WORTHINESS??

I don't remember being extended credit to pay the meter...

I don't remember signing any agreement for parking....

How do I dispute a TL when theres nothing to validate!!??

City SD just assumes to be owed money with no written agreeements to prove or disprove the claim.

How do they get away with this? How can a municipality be allowed to stretch the limits of reality so far as to assume that a drivers license &/or registration means my consent to having credit extended by a furnisher that isn't liable (or actionable due to lack of any agreement & or contract to dispute) for accurate reporting... regardless of who was / wasn't / or might have been operating or even owning the vehicle at the time...

Is it just me???

Am I going crazy.....?

Can anyone say class action??

As if the city isn't involved in enough fiscal improprietaries...

[Bjoeboo]

DocDon Do you think it would be a waste of my time to contact an FCRA lawyer regarding action against the city for violating their own ordinance?

Outcome seems pretty bleak.

I suppose I could just wait the 3 years to SOL before trying to buy a home. Of course my truck probably won't last another 3 years.

parking tickets....

of all the stupid...

who'd have thought it...?

[DocDon]

That's the point - it's not an FDCPA or FCRA issue. That would be a very weak case.

The whole case revolves around the 'total penalty' involved with parking tickets. If the penalty as written by ordinance said, ".... $15 fine, plus 7 years of higher interest rates on the vehicle owners' personal credit cards and automobile insurance, and/or inability to obtain the most qualified mortgage rates" that would probably be thrown out before it ever hit the books. It's not written that way, but that's exactly what's happening.

These municipalities are not versed in how scoring works. They're in financial trouble, and some CA waltzes into the City Manager's office with a proposal on how to reel in that outstanding money - never once mentioning what they'd really be doing to a consumer credit file...

Further, the employees' response, "it's accurate so it remains" - is a direct quote from the CRA's - they don't even know what it means, only that they're told to say that. What the heck would a cashier/clerk at your city offices know about the FCRA?

I would bet that if these municipalities knew fully what they're getting themselves into, they'd reconsider real quick.

You may even want to start by contacting the City Manager on this (in writing, of course) and carbon copy the Mayor and members of Council. This really sounds more a case of these cities being grossly misinformed (mislead) about the entire procedure of ther intentions... at the very least, they'll more than likely pass it along to their city attorney who probably also isn't aware of how this whole thing works.

If that fails, try the ACLU. I understand they have quite a presence in Cali.

[Traelyn]

That's the point - it's not an FDCPA or FCRA issue. That would be a very weak case.

...

These municipalities are not versed in how scoring works. They're in financial trouble, and some CA waltzes into the City Manager's office with a proposal on how to reel in that outstanding money - never once mentioning what they'd really be doing to a consumer credit file...

...

You may even want to start by contacting the City Manager on this (in writing, of course) and carbon copy the Mayor and members of Council. This really sounds more a case of these cities being grossly misinformed (mislead) about the entire procedure of ther intentions... at the very least, they'll more than likely pass it along to their city attorney who probably also isn't aware of how this whole thing works.

If that fails, try the ACLU. I understand they have quite a presence in Cali.

It isn't a CA that is reporting these tickets, it is the Collections Division of the City Treasurer. The City Treasurer's office is pretty well versed in the FCRA actually, I have downloaded the credit reporting policy from the internet. The City of San Diego only has an interim City Manager, as the previous CM left town once the new Mayor was hired (after the last one resigned this past sumemr). There is a new "stong mayor" system in place. As for the City Council: well my District is currently without representation because the previous Rep. was convicted on federal extortion charges. The rest of the City Council is scrambling to resolve the enormous pension deficit that has the potential to bankrupt the city. The City Attorney ... he's on the collection bandwagon now as he has plans to begin posting all the names of city's debtors (including parking tickets) on the City Attorney's website.

Although I do agree that the punishment does not seem to fit the crime, the counter position could be that if the citations were paid late (particularly after they were reported as unpaid) - and the credit report accurately reflects that, then the report is an accurate reflection of the individuals credit performance. Is it the CIty's fault that the citations were not paid in a timely fashion? If they were unaid, I would suggest a Goodwill letter. I really don't know what else to recommend - other than checking to see if the 7 year SOL applies to government (non-consumer) debt. I don't know the answer to that.

[DocDon]

This isn't an FCRA or FDCPA issue (except that collection entries are being placed in files). This is FICO issue, and a city ordinance issue.

While the Treasurer's Office may be versed in the FCRA as far as reporting of information, their ignorance of it is displayed through the "it's accurate, it stays" comment. That was told to them by the CRA's. Too obvious. The FCRA states that information that is reported must be accurate, not ANY negative transaction reported can NEVER be removed. There's a lot of money to be made in bad credit. Who do you think the biggest customers of the CRA's are? Us? Not even close. Consumers are just a thorn in their sides. Any wonder why the CRA's push this garbage? Imagine CITI telling TU they'll stop using their service to rate potential applicants....

Anywho, IF somebody owes the city money, then they are within their rights to collect it. However, if the collection is placed in a credit file, and the fine is paid, it should be removed.

I can almost guarantee there is no stipulation in the ordinance that states your finances are ruined for 7 years. THAT is punishment, no two ways about it - and more severe than the fine itself. I again bring up Universal Default clauses and auto insurance rates. That $15 ticket can easily add up to hundreds, if not thousands of dollars simply because of the negative entry.

If they want to include that in the ordinance, that's one thing, but as it stands, it's probably not, and therefore potentially illegal since placing the collection is a direct result of an ordinance violation - and the results of said collection entry is devastating. Even if they wanted to put that stipulation on the books, they'd have a hard time justifying the end result - the damage that continues after they get paid.

That's why they're ignorant of how this whole credit thing works, and THAT's why you need to present your case to your city management if this practice exists - at least until such time an attorney has taken on a case like this and precedence is established.

While we sit here and post, and complain, and offer opinions, groups are running around, hitting the pavement, spewing half-truths to places like the City of San Diego. It's time to start enlightening them the other half. The reality half.