My first DV WORKED !!

[tmac01]

I have always been really lucky and disputing for me has done the trick but now that I'm down to a few baddies that won't go away I tried my luck with good ole' DEBT VALIDATION !! I had Jefferson Capital also known as FINGERHUT on my CR. This was one that was not mine and it was 5 yrs on my CR. I disputed it I don't know how many times and they always verified it immediately. And I mean within days and no more than a week. It was for only $270 but it was not mine. So I went another route and sent them a DV letter and it was almost two pages long and very stern. Two days after they received it....BYE BYE FINGERHUT

[Been_Ponzied]

Congratulations! You have had better than I have with VLs.

[IHateCAs]

Jefferson Capital will emerge as someone else after a DV. I forget the company name, but that's their MO lately.

Get a DV.

Send letter to consumer saying it's over with.

New CA (it's the same one every time) duns you.

It might be an "attorney", I'm not sure.

Not to rain on your parade, just a heads up to be ready that's all.

[IHateCAs]

It's Midland they sell off to. Be prepared for a dunning from Midland where they claim to be your new creditor and try to sound all nice by "offering to find a positive resolution to this account"

[admin]

Yahoo!!

[tmac01]

IHateCAs,

Well heres the deal !! I sent Midland a DV the same day I sent Jefferson Capital one. The DV to Midland was for another TL an old CC. The letters were exactly the same. Maybe Midland will leave me alone after they get my letter. ALso. are you saying to send a letter to the OC which in this case would be Fingerhut ? They haven't contacted me in years !! Do I send Fingerhut a letter telling them that the CA has dropped the TL and that its over ? I am confused on what you are saying. I know by law Jefferson Capital cannot put the collection account back on my CR. Now if they sell it to Midland then are you saying I am going to have to DV Midland all over again ? Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!! Well Midland has my other DV right now. Maybe they will drop out of site. I actually had them removed from two CRAs by just disputing. Its EX that they wouldn't drop off of but I'm hoping this DV will get them lost forever.

[IHateCAs]

I have no personal experience with the Fingerhut/Jefferson/Midland series. I just know that's how it seems to work for everyone. Jefferson handles old FIngerhut accounts. They fold easily to a DV, then Midland comes into the picture. It's almost like they have some sort of prior agreement.

At any rate, Midland is much tougher to get rid of. You have to stay on them with validation requests and rejections of any fake validation. They will probably not want to litigate, so get a solid paper trail and well documented violations of FCRA and FDCPA and finally craft a nice ITS letter documenting your evidence, but without tipping your hand as to specifics.

Do NOT use form DVs or form ITS letters. If they see a letter they've seen before 50,000 times, they will take you less seriously. I prefer the less is more approach to a DV.

Dear jerkoff,

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxxx, (copy enclosed)

I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety and demand validation under section § 809 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

*optional cease & desist*

* I require all contact regard this matter be through the mail only.

Sincerely

Your name in print, unsigned

That's all a DV has to be to preserve your rights under § 809. No nonsense about filling out a questionaire and sending back this or that or the other thing. Don't give them any excuse or reason to try to get information they may not have.

Get the paper trail properly documented, research the caselaw, send the ITS as your last resort. If they fail to respond, take the offensive and file FDCPA/FCRA violations. The validity of the underlying debt will be moot at that point.

If they sue you first, you will already have the research done for a counterclaim which should be greater than anything they are suing you for.

It's a process that may take 3-4 months. You are in it as an individual for the long haul. Make them tire of you and wish you to go away, so they can chase the easy money.

As far as DVing the OC, probably not necessary if they aren't reporting.

[codename_fortyseven]

I Hate Ca's,

Great letter! That is ALL you have to do to preserve your rights and force them to choke up some information. I am not a fan of the lengthy "I demand blood, urine, and stool samples, and I will enforce all my rights under the spanish inquisition" type letters.

Just don't forget to put the date on there.

What you want is leverage. Ca's aren't going to go away when you play nice. Ca's want money. The BEST way to make a CA go away is to indicate to them that you are a serious threat to their bottom line and will definately cost them more money than they could ever hope to recover.

Letter's do not do this. Summons do.

Further, since the least sophisticated consumer is the standard, be that guy!

Don't go quoting statutes, judicial opinions, or the FTC.

Be as simple and straightforward as possible, get the typical violations, THEN smack them about.

You have to be calm, methodical, and a bit devious, and you'll find the CA's folding left and right offering you 1k if you just leave them alone.

[tmac01]

Thanks IHateCas,

I always keep a good paper trail so I'm good there and I'll just have my artilery ready for Midland. As for DV'ing the original OC like Fingerhut I agree with you not too because Fingerhut is not reporting but I do have a problem with Capital One who is reporting to EX and I have disputed eith these jerks 3 times and they just update and laugh at me. Should I DV them ? I don't know what else to do...Thanks..

[IHateCAs]

Thanks IHateCas,

I always keep a good paper trail so I'm good there and I'll just have my artilery ready for Midland. As for DV'ing the original OC like Fingerhut I agree with you not too because Fingerhut is not reporting but I do have a problem with Capital One who is reporting to EX and I have disputed eith these jerks 3 times and they just update and laugh at me. Should I DV them ? I don't know what else to do...Thanks..

Cap1 is like the holy grail of deletes. They probably will require a lengthy paper trail and an actual filing in court for them to go away. They've been known to re-age accounts willy nilly, so if you can catch them on that, they may just pay you $1k and give a delete to go away.

The bad thing about Cap1 is (in most cases) they are exempt from the FDCPA.

The good thing about Cap1 is, everything they do wrong is FCRA and $1k PER violation.

The WV Attorney General's suit against Cap1 may prove useful in this regard.

I have Cap1 on my account and I haven't even begun to do anything with them while I tie up my other loose ends (plus I have to wait out SOL). I will tackle them last and with full undivided effort.

[tmac01]

I'll just follow you and wait out my SOL. The account is actually from 1995 but I signed that stupid letter they sent me in 2000 re-opening my account. I promised to catch up on my bill and get it back to the credit limit and then they promised to open my account and report it in good standing to the CRAs. I would then have a good Cap 1 CC, oh well I never made a payment and as of 08/200 which is my DOLA I am screwed !! Also I have no paperwork from then. I have been so tempted to call Cap One and ask them to send me the contract that I signed back in 19995 and 2000, I do have that right don't I ? So should the SOL run out in 08/2007 ? and if so must Cap 1 remove this TL ? Thanks for all your help, have a good one

[IHateCAs]

I noticed in your DV letter that you didn't include an account # or your social security. How will they know who you are and what account to even deal with ? There could be 100 John Does in their files. How do you let the CA know which debt they need to validate.

I need to send out another DV so I'll wait for your response, thanks Smile

Never give them your social or signature under any circumstances. Never.

Give them whatever partial account # they have listed on your credit report, if you've never gotten a letter from them and just saw it on your reports, or lost their initial letter.

Keep in mind they are already reporting this TL to the CRAs. If they are reporting, they submitted enough information to the CRAs to have it match up with your file. If they have that information and you send them the same information they are reporting, that is SUFFICIENT.

If they just sent you a dunning letter and they aren't reporting yet, a photocopy of the letter they sent you suffices.

Make sure you are sending your disputes to the CA CMRRR and dispute the TL on your reports to the CRAs when the DV is signed for. Use usps.com and enter the tracking # and it will tell you when the mail was delivered. Dispute to the CRAs THAT DAY.

If they send you a BS letter talking about "we need more information, blah blah" send back a nice reply stating something along the lines of:

Thank you for admitting to me on your company letterhead that you can NOT validate this account. You have 15 days to delete this account from my reports. If it's not gone, I am filing in the state court of <insert your state here> for FCRA and FDCPA violations.

If they send you that letter in addition to verifying to the CRAs... game over in my book. You have to be willing to follow up on it however.

Don't do their job for them and give them additional info about you so they can verify the debt.

Like codename_fortyseven said, ALWAYS date your letters AND include the CMRRR# in the letter from your certified label so you can match up which letter they received on which day. Make copies of the letters you send.

In my haste to demonstrate a simple non-form letter DV, I neglected to add those two pieces of information.

And are you saying that I should leave out all the mubo jumbo about :

Do you have the right to collect in this State

Prove to me how you came to this amount you say I owe you

etc...etc...

Yes. A long form letter that's been seen eleventy billion times will have its contents ignored. It'd be like having to read the same newspaper every day. I've even seen responses from CAs to specific form letters basically saying "we know you got this letter off the internet, blah blah" and ignore the contents. Well technically that's a violation since they didn't validate, but it might lenghten the process and give them some confidence in dealing with you.

The DV I demonstrated is very short and contains everything you need.

You can actually research all the other information yourself while you're waiting for them to answer you. Check state commerce websites to see if they have an online search for CA licenses/bonds. If not, write to them and request a copy (read the state's guidelines for costs if any).

If you haven't done so, study the FDCPA and FCRA. Gives you something to do while you're waiting for letters. If you've done that, look up caselaw in your state and circuit, especially what your state court requires as evidence to prove a debt validation. Read your state's rules of civil procedure.

All that other stuff, you can ask in court if it goes that far.

It just dawned on me. You should add one more clause to your DV.

I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety and demand validation under section § 809 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Change to:

I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety.

I demand validation under § 809 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and laws of the state of <insert your state>.

Most state Supreme Courts have ruled on the evidence required for validation. Generally speaking, it is an itemized accounting of the debt. That's all activity from account opening to closing, including interest and fees.

That one sentence requires both while not spelling out exactly what they have to do. If they don't know what your state code spells out, that's more time they are spending looking for that and not verifying with the CRAs or responding to your DV (if they even bother to look).

[codename_fortyseven]

I Hate,

One thing I disagree with is referencing state statutes or the FDCPA. I don't like giving the CA's any room to breathe, notice I am an informed consumer, or outlining my battleplan. I swear, some CA's haven't even read the FDCPA, so why give them an opportunity to know which minefields to avoid? Refer to section 809 and they just might read it. Refer to state statutes and they might wisen up.

I want them thinking I am poor ol unsophisticated consumer until they get the summons across their desk.

I DO agree 100% that you should never give them ANY information such as a SSN or signature, and I think this extends to giving them a FREE education on the law. My FDCPA courses are 1k per hour.

I think the minimum standard for DVing is writing in big purple crayon "I dispute this debt"

That is 95% of what you have to do to assert your rights. Federal law states the MUST cease collection efforts until they validate, but I'm not going to tell them that, not for free at least...It is their responsibility to know the laws and abide by them.

I guess the point I am getting at is that you don't HAVE TO request validation, nor do they have to provide it (federal circuit dependent). If you don't request it, they may just toss your letter and send another dunning. Then you take them to the cleaners

[Been_Ponzied]

Wow, your opinion really differs from the sample letters on this site. I think you have some valid points. I'm still not sure what to do about the fact that they all either ignore my VLs or send me some stupid bookkeeping ledger as validation.

[codename_fortyseven]

Ponzied,

Sue them. That's what you do. A DV isn't some magic good credit pill. It is a stumbling block for CA's that you can toss out. Most trip right over it, then you take them to the cleaners aka court.

DVing alone won't do it. Writing letters, FTC, all of this stuff isn't particularly effective in the short run.

Sue them, sue them, sue them.

Once you have documented violations of state or federal law, SUE THEM.

When they see you have the great potential to cost them money, instead of rolling over, and being a new fool, they'll hand you 1k to just go away.

[IHateCAs]

r send me some stupid bookkeeping ledger as validation.

Be more specific on this?

[Been_Ponzied]

Thanks; I did buy the book last night online from this site about suing them, but I can't find in there yet (probably until I can print out the all 100 pages) about how to serve them, and sue them when they are in another state. This part confounds me.! I know I saw it on this site somewhere....will keep looking. When I first started posting here, I told everybody that I tried to sue a cell phone company and the small claims court refused to file the papers because they said they could not serve the local store. And the Attorney General for NV said I could not sue them in small claims, also.

Honestly, you guys have convinced me and I'm not too timid to give it a try.

Oh and about being more specific on what the FEW who sent me responded with. I was sent a copy of a billing ledger, of charges made and insurance payments received. Those were from a doctors office that I disagreed with. However, the one I plan to go after first because they are BLATANT violations is T-Mobile. Cell phone companies seem to be the worst!

[codename_fortyseven]

First, sue in federal.

Go to yahoo finance or find out the HQ's address, although any business address would work.

Put that info on the summons.

See ya in court!

[Been_Ponzied]

Do we sue in federal because they are in violation of federal laws?

[codename_fortyseven]

Yes, because of the jurisdiction thing, because the FTC picks up on federal cases, and because the judges are a little more squared away than your typical small claims judge.

[Been_Ponzied]

Hmmm sounds exciting.

I'm a Court TV addict anyway.

[ocn2000]

If it really,truly, positively is not yours......then just sue them. It really cuts to the chase of them putting bad lines back on your report under a different CA or selling the debt to a junk debt buyer. I have gotten much better results that way as opposed to letter writing campaigns.

[codename_fortyseven]

Correctamundo!

That's what I'd do. Try a goodwill call and maybe a letter, but if you aren't making significant headway, send em a summons. It seems more and more people don't take you seriously, unless you do.

No ITS, just slap a summons across their desk and see what happens.

[tmac01]

Thanks for the advice codename_fourtyseven

[IHateCAs]

Word of advice. If you aren't fully prepared to take this to trial yourself properly or retain a good lawyer, be very very cautious sending a summons. If they file an answer and appear, you'll like mighty silly in front of a judge.