DOES ANYONE KNOW THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS SOL IN OHIO????

[hbh]

Hello all. Does someone actually know for a fact what the statute of limitations for credit card debt is in Ohio and what starts the sol clock? I don't know why the Ohio sol is so difficult. Please provide relevant credible sources if possible. Thanks in advance.

[devil21]

Accurate as far as I can tell:

http://www.ihatedebt.com/StatuteofLimitations.html

Ohio appears to be 6 years for Open accounts (credit cards) and 15 years for written contracts. Nasty state to live in for SOL purposes.

Also, in most cases the SOLC starts with the date of last payment or purchase.

[hbh]

Hello devil21. Thanks for trying. Unfortunately, the source that you provided has a " - " (no info) under open-ended accounts and does not seem credible. Some say there is no sol on credit card accounts in Ohio. Some insist that it is 4...some say 6...some say 15. Some say 15 if the credit card is backed by an fdic lender. This is very frustrating. I just wish someone had a concrete verifiable answer. Thanks again.

[aggravated]

§ 2305.07. Contracts not in writing; statutory liabilities generally.

Except as provided in sections 126.301 [126.30.1] and 1302.98 of the Revised Code, an action upon a contract not in writing, express or implied, or upon a liability created by statute other than a forfeiture or penalty, shall be brought within six years after the cause thereof accrued.

[hbh]

So I suppose a capital one credit card that was last current in 1998 would be out of sol. THE DOLA is 1998, but the DOLP is 2001. Do you know if it is the date of last payment or the date the account was last current that starts sol? Thanks.

[Rlee from Ohio]

Hi ther HBH,

I have been around, and around on this same issue for a while.

I believe it comes down to the question does 2305.07, the 6 yr SOL on Contracts not in writting and other general liabilities created by statute, apply to cc or not. If it does apply then 2305.08 Partial Payments, states " If payment has been made upon any demand founded on a contract, or a written acknowledgment thereof, or a promise to pay it has been made and signed by the party to be charged, an action may brought thereon within the time limited by sections 2305.06 and 2305.07 of the Revised Code, after such payment, ackknowledgment, or pormise."

This indicates to me that there is a relationship between 2305.07 and 2305.08. DOLP would restart SOL Maybe and maybe not. We are back to the question of whether or not CC are considered contracts.

2305.07 can still be the rule of the day because it includes "or upon a liability created by statute other than forfeiture or penaty.

If not a contract which 2305.08 specificlly addresses then cause of action would start the SOL, and payments made which do not bring the account current, should not not restart the SOL.

This is all just my thoughts on this.

Still there are others who say that neither 2305.06 (15 yr SOL on written contracts) nor 2305.07 (6 yr SOL on contracts not in writting or upon other liability created by statute) apply to CC, and therefore through the process of elimination the only section left to use would be 2305.09,

2305.09D specifically, and that has a 4 year SOL, and the start of that SOL would be cause of action. Payments made that do not bring the account current would be irrelivant.

TILA clearly describes CC as Open End Accounts. Ohio does not have any statutes, that I am aware of, that describe CC as anything different, therefore, the TILA definition stands. Ohio does have a fraud statute that clearly states that CC are not loan agreements, see section 1335.02.

So the idea is then a default on an open end account falls under the catchall 4 yr SOL 2305.09(D), because there is nothing else left to address Open End Accounts.

This is all that I know, I know it does not offer any finality to your??s, but maybe other will chime in as well.

I used to know where there were a couple of sites that listed Ohio as having a 4 yr SOL on open end accounts. I will see if I can find them tomorrow.

Rlee

[hbh]

Thank you for such a thorough response. Unfortunately, we still wind up with a question mark. I was leaning toward 6 being the correct answer, but maybe it is 4 after all. I don't understand why the cc sol is clear-cut in every state but Ohio.

Your help is genuinely appreciated.

[hbh]

thank you for offering your assistance...do you have anything to say to what rlee has submitted or do you stand by 6 years contract not in writing? Thank you again.

[aggravated]

2305.09 has to do with tort laws.........I don't see anything in it that indicates that it applies to contracts.

The only areas that have to do with contracts are:

2305.06

2305.07

2305.08

2305.08 talks about making a payment (or a promise/acknowlegment) and resets the sol clock.

I'm a rookie in every sense of the word, but I don't see how tort law applies in this case.

[Rlee from Ohio]

As I understand it the proponents of the 4 yr SOL on CC accounts follow this path.

While TILA is not subject to the complete preclusion doctrin, since Ohio does not specifically define CC accounts as any type of contract, for purposes of SOL, then the TILA "Open End Agreemtns" terminology rules.

CC are not contracts, they are "Open End Agreements.

Addional information supporting this conclusion is Ohio Section 1335.02

(3) which basically states that for the purposes of this section Loan Agreements with Financial Institutions does not include, among other things, a commitment relating to a credit card. They argue this also removes CCs from being considered contracts.

Also TILA Section 226.28 of Regulation Z reafirms that TILA preempts

State Laws, unless State laws provide more protection to the consumer.

Since 2305.06, 2305.07, and 2305.08 are about contracts, they then do not apply. While 2305.09 is about torts, damages arising out of something other than contracts, 2305.09(D) is where one end up, by way of EXCLUSION. There is no where else to go. 2305.09(D) is a catch-all

for everything else that does not fit.

I am not say I agree or disagree with this, I am just providing what I think is the logic that the 4 yr SOL proponents attest too.

Rlee

[devil21]

I find it hard to believe that there is not Ohio case law that decides this! Has anyone looked into case law? When a statute is ambiguous, the next stop is case law.

[LadynRed]

No, there is no OH case law, I've spent the equivalent of DAYS looking for it. The reason for this, I'm sure, is that IF this argument has been made and won or lost, it has NOT happened in a court of record, so no case law.

There is a guy on another forum who is a collector, or involved in collections, in OH. I can't stand the jerk, but when it comes to OH and lawsuits on credit cards, he's usually right. Judges in OH are not buying the 6 year SOL or the possible 4 year SOL, they apparently all side with the 15 year SOL for written contracts.

If you can bring your case to a court of record in OH and win on a 4 or 6 year SOL, you'll be doing lots of people a favor, but you'll David up against Goliath.

The OH statutes are a mess unlike any other state statutes I've read thru.

[hbh]

I have seen a number of posts around the net that point to 15 years, as well. Ohio really sucks. I plan to move out of this state in the next couple of years. If I did not live in Ohio, would Ohio's sol still apply or would the sol of the new state of residence then be applicable?

Thanks again to all of you.

[Rlee from Ohio]

I know we have been getting a bit deep here on this issue but, obviously there is a lot of conflicting information here within our Ohio Statutes with regards to this issue of What is the SOL for CC.s This is a simple ? , but our state statutes simply do not address the answer to that simple ?.

This being the case then, I would imagin that perhaps the Federal Supremacy Clause, Article VI of the Constitution may come into play.

According to LectLaw, under the Supremacy Clause, everyone must follow federal law in the face of conflicting state law. It has long been established that "a state statute is void to the extent that it actually conflicts with a valid federal statute" and that a conflict will be found either where compliance with both federal and state law is impossible or where the state law stands as a obstacle to the accomplishment and execution of the full purpose an objectives of Congress.

It is obvious that our state laws are in conflict with one another on this, so, perhaps the TILA difinition as Open End Account, rules since Ohio does not specifically address "Open End Accounts" , TILA DOES NOT call these "Open End Contracts" So perhaps the 4 year SOL deal is for real, because nothing else we have addresses it.

I think it would be interresting to hand all of this over to some well known Ohio law school professor, perhaps say for example at Case Western, and he could have his students hash all of this out, as sort of a project, and then their findings could be sent down to the AGs office. With this type of agenda I believe we consumers would be getting a fair shake on this.

When you can walk into court and go up to Judge Whoever, and say here this is the AGs written position on this, then perhaps we will be getting somewhere. Right now the AGs office has no idea what to do with this.

There is a lot of big money behind the 15 yr crap.

I believe one reason there is no case law on this is becasue if somone can properly argue this, the case will be settled out of court or probably dismissed. That way there never will be any case law for all to look at.

Get my drift. It is not in Big Money's interest to ever get case law supporting a 4 yr SOL. Yet a majority of States outside of Ohio have SOLs similar to 4 years on this CC crap.

I seem to talking myslef into believing the position of the 4 yr SOL

people.

Rlee

[hbh]

Well, I just got off the phone with a company called Balance that I was referred to by my credit union. As a service, they were helping me by doing a credit report review. We went through my credit reports line by line and discussed errors, things I should focus on, etc. Then the Balance rep said, "let me look up your state's sol," and I told him "good luck." His paperwork states that the sol is indeed 15 years. He was surprised, as Balance is based in California and it appears that they are used to 3-6yr. sol's. He really couldn't believe what he was reading. I explained to him why it actually may be 15 yrs and he was simply stunned. So, according to his literature, it is 15 years and I am inclined to believe it. I do plan to move out of state in the next couple of years. Would the 15 yr/ sol still apply to me if I no longer live in Ohio?

Thanks again to all.

[aggravated]

This debate has me re-thinking my plan of attack. I thought most of my credit issues were at or close to the statutes of limitation. After reading what I have here, I just don't know. I would like to believe the four year version of the debate (everything would be uncollectable except 2 default judgments). If it were six years, everything would be close to or past the SOL . Fifteen years would totally stink! It may be bankruptcy after all!

I have a hearing monday to get one of the judgments vacated. If successful, I intended to hire a lawyer to work on the other (my pro se motion to vacate in Cuyahoga County was denied without a hearing). I was never served in Cuyahoga and didn't live there when the complaint was filed. But if this SOL thing isn't in my favor, I have been wasting my time.

I have sent this message to the Ohio Attorney General. If I get an answer, I will post it here.

Dear Mr. Petro (or representative),

What kind of an account is a credit card considered to be?

Is it considered a contract in writing?

Is it considered a contract not in writing?

Is it something other than one of the above? If so, what then?

What statute in the Ohio Revised Code (or other written law) does this type of an account fall under? I am trying to figure out what the statutes of limition for credit card debt is, and how it is figured.

Thank you in advance

[Rlee from Ohio]

aggravated,

Hope all goes well with you vacating the judgment.

I have been looking around and most sites seem to comming down on the side of the 6 yr SOL. Though I do see the logic in the 4 yr information.

15 yr totally is not right, because cc are not closed end accounts with set payments, timetables, etc.

I would expect the AGs office to come back at you with 15 yrs becasue that is what say withoult looking into things.

When I talked to them, over the phone, the person I finally talked too did not even know what TILA was, nor understood what I ment when I said cc are open end accounts. It was a joke basically.

TILA describes in detail the working of what they call "Open End Account",

On the back of just about every cc monthly billing you receive is the description of how their account works and it pretty much matches the TILA discription. CC are Open End Accounts. Heck a lot of older cc accoutns were opened without even requiring a signature. Here is our card, go use it. They would send along a description of how their account charges etc, which by the way matches the TILA description, and you were good to go.

There is just know way in hell that cc are contracts in writing.

Rlee

[Rlee from Ohio]

aggravated,

Hope all goes well with you vacating the judgment.

I have been looking around and most sites seem to comming down on the side of the 6 yr SOL. Though I do see the logic in the 4 yr information.

15 yr totally is not right, because cc are not closed end accounts with set payments, timetables, etc.

I would expect the AGs office to come back at you with 15 yrs becasue that is what say withoult looking into things.

When I talked to them, over the phone, the person I finally talked too did not even know what TILA was, nor understood what I ment when I said cc are open end accounts. It was a joke basically.

TILA describes in detail the working of what they call "Open End Account",

On the back of just about every cc monthly billing you receive is the description of how their account works and it pretty much matches the TILA discription. CC are Open End Accounts. Heck a lot of older cc accoutns were opened without even requiring a signature. Here is our card, go use it. They would send along a description of how their account charges etc, which by the way matches the TILA description, and you were good to go.

There is just know way in hell that cc are contracts in writing.

Rlee

[aggravated]

I have seen sites since I started reading this thread that say 4 years. Most do say 6 years though. All you need is a judge that don't care what the law says to rule in a creditors favor and you go broke in lawyers fees. They rule from the bench and you have to have the will, time and money to fight.

Everybody recommends that you check out the NACA website. I have called half a dozen so called "Consumer Advocate Lawyers with experience in FDCPA and FCRA" listed in Cleveland, Oh from the NACA websit. All they want to do is file a bankruptcy for me without hearing what I have to say. "Hey.....you'd better hurry before the law changes".

Lawyers typically don't listen to you. They are after the easy buck! I had a workers comp claim that I wanted to check out that my rights were protected. Ended up with an artificial joint in my elbow. Employer tried to challenge my claim to money that was due to me. My lawyer sent a semi-retired lawyer (friend of his) that was at the industrial commission office on a regular basis. He knew nothing about me or my case except what he learned from me 15 minutes before we went before the referee/judge/whatever. His advice was to just keep quiet and everything would be alright. When my employer was finished presenting his case, they asked this "lawyer" if he had anything to say. He said "I don't know" and turned and asked me. I defended myself with him sitting there. I would bet a paycheck that my employer would have gotten the remedy that he requested if I had kept quiet. I had industrial commission rules printed out that were in my favor. Fortunately they only took away about $10 a week (they didn't allow a cell phone allowance that my company paid to be included as income). I probably could have kept that if I would have argued the last point (I was stuck with a contract to keep the phone for the remainder of 2 years). The point of this is that the original lawyer will submit a form (that I also am capable of doing) after 40 weeks from the last time I receive benefits. I will get a settlement, and he will get 1/3 of it for hand-writing a request and submitting it to OBWC on my behalf. Tweny minutes of work.......the last settement I received for another injury was $1800. Lawyer would have got $600.

I have a bankruptcy just about ready to go that I filled out with software that I bought on the internet just in case I can't get the judgments vacated. There are a couple of points of law that I can't figure out myself, so I have attempted to hire a lawyer to assist. They still want full price to do a BR for me. I have already done 90% of the work.

I don't want to "knock" good lawyers. I just can't seem to find one. I apologize to any who may honestly be concerned for their clients well being. I also acknowlege that they have to make a living as well. There needs to be a good balance of service for the money. Just tired of hearing that "you'd better get a lawyer". Easier said than done.

I have a couple of other lawyer horror stories, but have already gotten off topic for too long.

Sorry to ramble.........just haven't found a lawyer that helps. The ones that I have talked to aren't FDCPA or FCRA experienced, just bankruptcy lawyers that suck you in. But they still advertise the experience.

[Rlee from Ohio]

Sorry about the dbl post before,

I also had trouble finding a lawyer, when I needed on a couple of years back. I also found the NACA site not very useful I endind up in one attorneys office, about this debt stuff, only to hear her go completely off subject and ended up telling me I needed to collect child support from my X wife, and that would help my financial position. What a Joke. She knew squat about the FDCPA.

I finally gave up on the whole idea and attacked the old fashioned way by forcing the JDBs to produce records, with production of records and interrogatories. Did not even get into the 6 yr, 4 yr thing. They had no detailed records and dismissed after pretrial and before trial date. I had an older, well known local attorney do this for me. He did not want to get involved with FDCPA, or any of that. translation he did not know it, but that was OK, because I knew by that time I was not even going in that direction. I think the attorneys who actually know this stuff, talked about

on this and other boards, are very hard to find.

The truth is, sad to say, it's all about the money, and there is not a lot of money in it for them to represent consumeres in cases like this.

Rlee

PS. I see you are up in the Northern Ohio area, what do think about my idea posted earlier, about approaching a law school professon, concerning the apparent problems with the ORC, with regards to Open End Accounts.

I figure by nature these profesors, are liberal, consumer oriented individuals, with no special interest to answer too.

I would like to see he or she put this too some of their students as a project to come up with an definative answer. Our AGs office, as far as I am concerned caters to special interests (big business) and besides that they seem to be unfamiliar with Federal Law, and do not seem to care.

[aggravated]

I have no idea...........2 problems I guess..........getting the law school interested and getting the AG to care what they think.

[hbh]

I think it is an exceptional idea rlee. Please pursue it. I may do so myself.

[aggravated]

RLEE & HBH,

Don't mean to discourage anyone's efforts. My handle that I use kind of says how I am feeling at the time. If I get an answer from the AG's office, I will post it here. I have no idea how to go about getting someone like "Case Western" to do what was suggested. If I did, I don't have any idea about how to get the powers to be to make it "Official".

I have read on the AG's site (after I asked for the opinion about SOL) that the AG's office only caters to Attorneys (in the matter of opinions). Kind of makes me wonder if only Attorneys pay taxes in Ohio and all those deductions were a figment of my imagination? Will try to find the section and post it here. Maybe I am misreading it.

Whine Whine Whine

[aggravated]

The Opinions Section of Attorney General's Office historically issues as many as 100 formal opinions each year. Requests for opinions must come from an entity or official to whom the Attorney General has a statutory duty to render advice. The Attorney General cannot issue opinions to individual citizens either within or from outside of Ohio, on hypothetical questions, issues committed to another branch of government, questions about the constitutionality of a statute, or issues currently in litigation

Probably means that they won't answer mine.

[Rlee from Ohio]

Hey aggravated,

I am looking for something I once saw in the ORC about consumer rights

and orders to help in mattters concerning various financial matters.

As far as the AGs office and the idea about a law school professor stuff, is that obviously our current laws are fague on this SOL for CCs and therefore prone to different interpertation. I think you almost have to tell the AGs office, this is what we think this is, this is how we get to this, and here is supporting information backing up this position. Here also is a study or project done from such and such school of law supporting this position. This way I believe, not only is their credibility to the argument, why it is ( whatever they come up with) but also this position would be up front and in position, ant not that of the special interests. We need to lead them, to the best interpertation possible. Also at this point you can go to you local representatives and say hey lets get this done, things are a mess right now.

I am a bit of an idealists. Right.

Akron University also has a fairly large school of law also.

Rlee