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Black 4X as likely to pay higher mortgages costs

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Grim, both are wrong and unacceptable. I don't think that is a fair question.

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OK, explain how I got more than anyone else because I am white:

I went to public school

I graduated from a public high school

I joined the military and spent 4 years there

I got out and tried to open my own business, which failed after 2 years

I moved to Florida, and went from job to job for the next 4 years, each time for a little more $$ until I could afford to go to school

I went to school to become a firefighter/EMT

I got hired, working my way to paramedic and then to engineer

Where in there did I get anything more than an African-American?

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OK, explain how I got more than anyone else because I am white:

I went to public school

I graduated from a public high school

I joined the military and spent 4 years there

I got out and tried to open my own business, which failed after 2 years

I moved to Florida, and went from job to job for the next 4 years, each time for a little more $$ until I could afford to go to school

I went to school to become a firefighter/EMT

I got hired, working my way to paramedic and then to engineer

Where in there did I get anything more than an African-American?

Absolutely none.

OK now waiting for someone to say there's "white schools" and "black schools" .. hello! this is NOT 1954! Brown vs. Topeka was over 50 years ago!

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There is much discussion about the reasons for the disparaties mentioned in the article being not race-based but instead because of increased proverty, lower education, worse jobs, living in communities that are predominately minority (and thus getting a "soft" redline), etc. However, many of these issues were specifically negated in the article. Here are some quotes to help focus the discussion:

Even blacks with incomes above $100,000 a year paid high rates more often than whites with incomes below $40,000.
Federal studies of the lending industry, and federal lawsuits, have repeatedly found evidence of discrimination in the lending process.
A borrower's income did not explain the disparities, the Observer's study showed.

Blacks got high-rate loans much more often than whites with similar and smaller incomes.

The gaps increased with income. Among lower-income families, blacks received high-rate loans 3.3 times more often than whites. Among higher-income families, blacks received high rates 4.8 times more often.

Higher-income blacks living in white communities got high rates much more often than their white neighbors.

That is not to say that the article did not specifically point out some societal issues as part of the cause for the disparity, such as lower knowledge about financial issues and worse credit problems, but some readers are painting with an even broader stroke than the article intended.

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It's obvious the ethnics in your town don't turn out and vote. If they did your commission would be a LOT different.

Because people should vote based strictly on skin color instead of on platform, performance record, or ideology?

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It's obvious the ethnics in your town don't turn out and vote. If they did your commission would be a LOT different.

Because people should vote based strictly on skin color instead of on platform, performance record, or ideology?

Ummnnn... Try telling that to LULAC, MALDEF, NAACP, and other racial based organizations...

Here in San Antonio Texas, there was a white woman who was considered to be the Mother Teresa of the Westside. The Westside is heavily Hispanic and poor...

She fought poverty, helped adults get their GED, etc... And then she ran for city council in that area... Yet, she was trashed by so many Hispanics because they said that that council district ought to be represented by a Hispanic instead of a white woman...

These minority groups claim that things should NOT be based on skin color... Except when it is on their turf...

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Grim,

you may not have gotten more than someone African-American but plenty of people do. history and studies show this over and over.

i notice that you and Ravenous have a lot of "these people" in your tone...it's really disheartning to read that. Hopefully one day you'll realize that you can't just group people...it's unfair to say anything about all White/Hispanics/Blacks ...

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It isn't limited to whites. I work with some hispanic and black people. I have heard others of their own race accuse them of selling out to the white man.

Since when is being successful "Selling out"

I heard a hispanic man being called a "potato"- brown on the outside, but white on the inside.

I am sure we have all heard blacks called "oreos"

I even know one guy the call "carlton" after a character on "Fresh Prince". Ever notice anti white humor, even on TV is OK, but no other races or nationalities?

Remember Jesse Jackson and his rainbow coalition? Yet he is the one who called New York "Himey Town". Chris Rock- constant anti-white humor.

Racism, no matter who does it, is wrong. Stop blaming others for your own problems and fix them.

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i see anti non-white humor all the time.

any who, the "stop blaming other people...fix your own problems" applies both ways. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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Because people should vote based strictly on skin color instead of on platform, performance record, or ideology?

Two words for you:

Marion Berry

Two more:

Willie Brown

How about two more?

Kwame Fitzpatrick

I could go on and on...

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I went to public school

I graduated from a public high school

The odds are you went to a "better" public school

I joined the military and spent 4 years there

You didn't have to experience comments and subtle unspoken slights from members in the unit and your officers

I got out and tried to open my own business, which failed after 2 years

You had a better chance of getting a business loan if you are white. I've been through the small disadvantge business route and you are still asking for money from an all-white male banking institution. If they don't like your business plan for some "reason" you are out of luck.

Getting employees and making business contacts, incredibly important to a successful business, is much harder if you are a minority (or a woman). I have a successful business and I can say without any hesitation that it would have been so much easier if I were a white male instead of a white woman. If I had been a black woman - oh my god it would have been tough!

I moved to Florida, and went from job to job for the next 4 years, each time for a little more $$ until I could afford to go to school

If you were a minority, it's possible and likely that getting another job would have been tougher, and all stats say blacks and hispanics make far less than whites at comparable jobs. For women it's 77 cents to each dollar a white male makes for a comparable job.

Maybe you wouldn't be able to support yourself and go to school like a white person would.

I went to school to become a firefighter/EMT

I got hired, working my way to paramedic and then to engineer

Again, having been in the engineering field, I experienced discrimination so blatant that I should have sued. Of course, if I did, I wouldn't have been able to work as an engineer again. As it was, I did complain to HR once over some comments made to me (it was the last straw after 1 year of insulting comments made in the presence of my co-workers). I was persona non-grata after that. I must say, that I did work with one African American engineer at one firm who seemed to be doing ok. I've worked other places where they didn't fare so well.

Where in there did I get anything more than an African-American?

I think you need to experience how sinister and subtle and career-limiting things can be for you as a minority. I've only experienced things as a female, and they are REALLY bad. Even now. And then to have some white guy say "They are discriminating against white men" - it's a joke and an insult to boot.

Yes, I agree if you work hard enough, you can suceed. But the deck is stacked against you, you need to work twice as hard.

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Sorry, I don't buy it.

There were only 2 high schools in my county. Florida has consistantly rated low in the publis school dept- like #45 or lower.

What I DID have to endure in the military was listening to black sailors in my unit talk about how they hated whites. (My superior for the majority of the time I was there was a Philipino)

I never got a business loan. Actually, I was told by the SBA that they had special loan programs for minorities, but I didn't qualify.

Engineer in the fire dept is not what you are thinking of. BTW- when I was in school almost all of my female class mates were there on grants. I had to pay for mine.

Read the list of grants, scholarships and loans available to college students. How many do you see that are restricted to white men? Now look to see how many are resticted to women and minorities.

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What I DID have to endure in the military was listening to black sailors in my unit talk about how they hated whites. (My superior for the majority of the time I was there was a Philipino)

And you never heard an anti-black or hispanic slur? NEVER? How about when only whites were present?

I never got a business loan. Actually, I was told by the SBA that they had special loan programs for minorities, but I didn't qualify.

Well there were plenty of loans for small disadvantaged business (women qualify) but I never got one.

Engineer in the fire dept is not what you are thinking of. BTW- when I was in school almost all of my female class mates were there on grants. I had to pay for mine.

Read the list of grants, scholarships and loans available to college students. How many do you see that are restricted to white men? Now look to see how many are resticted to women and minorities.

Did you read it?? Contrary to popular belief the percentage of grants restricted to minorities and women is small - most don't specify this as a requirement. Did you look for a grant to qualify for? There is a lot of grant money every year which goes unclaimed. A friend of mine writes grant proposals for a living. She said there are lots of college grants out there for EVERYONE. The only disqualifier might be income, but in lots of cases that isn't even a qualifier. As a matter of fact, you have a better chance of getting a grant if you hire a professional grant researcher/writer - something that tips the scales in favor of, you guessed it, white men, who have most of the money in this country. She works for many companies and cities professionally, and the occasional college grant.

I'm truly sorry if you feel you were discriminated against. That is wrong no matter what. Now you know how minorities feel to be discriminated against, if what you say (at least I'm sure you perceive it) to be true. For every slight you felt, multiply that by 100 and that's what's going on to non-white males and women.

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No, I don't feel slighted. I feel like life is wwhat you make of it. You can either sit there and complain and moan about what others are getting, or you can go out there and have a go at it yourself.

I feel like the Welfare and handout system actually does the recipients (most of whom are minorities) a disservice. Kind of like feeding wild animals, soon they become dependent on handouts and lose the ability to hunt.

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dive,

that most of the recipients of welfare are minorities is a misconception. the actual stats on welfare don't bear out your assumption.

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dive,

that most of the recipients of welfare are minorities is a misconception. the actual stats on welfare don't bear out your assumption.

That's true. Most of them are single white females.

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Minorities receive far, far more public assistance than whites, if you look at the representative numbers. For example, blacks can be getting 30% of public assistance, but be 15% of a given population. That means they are twice as likely to be receiving assistance.

The point of this thread is that blacks are 4 times as likely to be at an economic disadvantage. Are you now saying that is not true?

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i'm saying what i've been saying all along...be careful of your generalizations until you've seen the numbers nationwide and region by region. what you said is not true. you are operating off of a common misconception. and lots of your statements/judgements seem to be based on common stereotypes and not actual facts or experiences with minorities.

second, the point of the thread (if you read the article) was to say that minorities are charged higher interest rates regardless of income, credit, etc.

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To NefertitiX:

Thank you. I can only give praises to someone within the African American community that can translate my frustration in an articulate fashion - like you have done. Even if the responses aren't accepted, you did a far better job than I could in explaining yourself.

And to the admin:

Bless you. Bless you for at least attempting to bring the truth of your experiences to light. As you can see, things won't change easily in the battlefield of public perception or public opinion.

Most of all, thank you for this website. I placed my order for the 4 in 1 CD this morning and look forward to receiving it soon.

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You say not to generalize, but this entire thread is a generalization. You say that blacks are 4x's more likely to pay higher interest, so that means the banks discriminate. That is a generalization in itself.

I can also point to studies that say blacks are 4x's more likely to be drug dealers or prosititutes. 4x's as likely to be on welfare, or 3x's as likely to be unwed teenage mothers. I feel like the problems that are faced by certain ethnic groups is more due to personal responsibility than racism.

If not, how can you explain the fact that Asians do better in school than all other ethnicities?

Some things are caused by culture and not racism, but then again, blaming racism doesn't require that one take responsibility for one's own failings.

There have been other groups that have blamed another ethnic groups for their own failings. They go by various names, but they are all cut from the same cloth. The KKK, Nazis, Black Panthers and others.

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divemedic,

There isn't much I can say that hasn't already been presented to you. You feel the way you do, and that's fine. Your comments have a degree of truth to them, but that degree is small at best. Please believe that you speak (write) from YOUR perspective only, and that life lived in other people's shoes brings about a perspective you could barely imagine, let alone comprehend. (Example: I am not Jewish nor was I born in the 20's or 30's, so the Jewish holocaust isn't something I can identify with - first hand.)

Black people have a history that is so unique to other ethinic groups, that comparison isn't warranted. Racism is so entrenched into the fabric of this society, it goes far beyond most people's perceptions and imaginations. Thet fact that this thread exists amazes me, because a non-Black person saw something from a perspective that does not traditionally come from a white person. (Again, bless you admin.)

You don't have to believe a word of what has been presented in this thread. Just do what you think is best for you and your's, and please believe me and mine will do the same. When you are more open to constructive dialogue, maybe we can get somehwrere. (Something more than you defend your point and I defend mine, and we get no where. How about we actually listen to one another.)

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dive...i didn't say that Blacks were 4x more likely...the study did. you obviously haven't read any of my comments because i've said not to generalize in each of them.

second, statistics show whites are more likely to be serial killers and mass murders. does that mean that we should say all white people are murderous and dangerous and deserve to be discriminated against? i would say no but your logic means you would say yes. according to your logic, all white people would need to take personal responsibility for that fact and admit it's a cultural thing.

also, you forgot a couple of groups...White supremacists and skinheads. i'm sure you're familiar with them.

i'm done with this topic. it's obvious you are loyal to your rhetoric and refuse to see anything but. i have my suspicions as to why.

lastly, given your profession...i truly hope you are able to put your bias aside when you are out "serving" the community. it's scary to think that life and death decisions might rest with someone whose personal beliefs affect the actions they take in those moments.

hopefully, one day, you can be open to the reality of the world around you...

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manfromdet,

thanks...you did just fine yourself! one person not listening is fine...the other posts are encouraging because it means there are some very open-minded people on this board.

as for you...good luck in this credit journey and welcome aboard :-)

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