Sign in to follow this  
admin

Black 4X as likely to pay higher mortgages costs

Recommended Posts

nefer:

Oh no I wasn't talking about your post being hostile, sorry!!

I meant all the back and forth, is a little hostile

and the comment about "african american" most people don't understand that people from africa, do not consider blacks in america as "africans" but that is another history lesson.

It would be wonderful to think that we can change the way the world thinks, but unfortunately mind control is not appropriate, but I raise my children to be aware of the issues, but ultimately chart their own destiny, regardless of what others think or do, because in the end, we are responsible for our choices, I teach them some people have been conditioned to be afraid, negative, and hostile toward blacks, and I have teach them to bust down the door of racism, roll over it, knock it down, and tear it down, because can't anything stop you in life ultimately but your own thinking......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not think it merely coincidence that the rate of incarceration in blacks and whites directly corresponded with the rate of high interest loans: 36% of blacks are incarcerated sometime in their life time, versus about 6% for whites. At the same time 27% of blacks pay higher rates, as opposed to 6% of whites. Could the fact that people who were in prison have lower credit scores than people who weren't?

In order for this to have any weight, 27% of those Black applicants who receive higher rates must have a prison record. Am I the only one who can see how foolish this is?

I looked at the original article as well as the .pdf file you referenced. Your numbers are suspect, for no ther reason than the logic you use to derive your conclusions. Not to mention the fact that there is SO MUCH more associated with the report you've omitted.

You said: "snide accusations, innuendo and name calling"

My accusations aren't snide, and there's no innuendo. I've been quite clear. And you've lived up to everything I've called you.

Again, have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

manfromdet,

i just wanted him/her not to get caught up in the craziness of this thread. this is a really good board and this thread is the first time i've seen anything like this here. i think there is a tenseness to this thread that is affecting the way anyone reading some of these posts reacts to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nefer:

Oh no I wasn't talking about your post being hostile, sorry!!

I meant all the back and forth, is a little hostile

and the comment about "african american" most people don't understand that people from africa, do not consider blacks in america as "africans" but that is another history lesson.

It would be wonderful to think that we can change the way the world thinks, but unfortunately mind control is not appropriate, but I raise my children to be aware of the issues, but ultimately chart their own destiny, regardless of what others think or do, because in the end, we are responsible for our choices, I teach them some people have been conditioned to be afraid, negative, and hostile toward blacks, and I have teach them to bust down the door of racism, roll over it, knock it down, and tear it down, because can't anything stop you in life ultimately but your own thinking......

srav, the back and forth has become hostile because the subject matter is about race. Ever had a nice, quite, unemotional conversation about race - between two different ethicities? It's rare, ain't it? It took 8 pages to get to this point. I would suggest - encourage you - to read them and come to your own conclusions about this particular thread afterwards.

I don't question what you teach your children. It sounds fine to me. And the academic slant you've provided to being called "african american" is fine. But it's out of place, as well as out of touch in this particular instance.

Blacks, african americans, south americans, jamaicans, africans, people of color, pick a label, are being charged 4X higher rates than whites. My good buddy divmedic is playing statistician to show that other factors - other than racism - account for those numbers. I don't believe he's proven his point for many reasons, and some agree. div of course doesn't.

Other than, of course, pissing each other off, that's where we are at.

I've had my fill. Div, continue with your fun. I'll move on now. I'm through with this particular thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
manfromdet,

i just wanted him/her not to get caught up in the craziness of this thread. this is a really good board and this thread is the first time i've seen anything like this here. i think there is a tenseness to this thread that is affecting the way anyone reading some of these posts reacts to them.

And i agree with you. For that reason, i'll call it a day. I'll talk with you away from here. I've appreciated your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

srav,

yep, the back & forth is definitely tense. i agree that we have to aggressively overcome racism and you can't change any one's mind.

i just find it so ironic that people can doubt the prevalence of racism today and yet a race discussion evokes...well...you can see it...

the movie "Crash" was only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to showing what we really think, are really afraid of, etc.

but, that being neither here nor there, i just wanted you to know this is a really good board with lots of helpful people and loads of information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

man:

I have now read thru all the post now, and dive is correct is saying they are other factors, but the main factor and only factor is EDUCATION.

Lenders would not be able to charge blacks 4X as much as whites if people were educated, and just said no....That is really the bottom line

remember stats are important in tracking information, and they can be skewed, Like my parents always told me, as far as the negative stats for blacks, "DON'T BE A STATISTIC"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i myself have had some pretty heated arguments with dive. the man is not a racist. he is a libertarian, and as such is pretty much opposed to ANY welfare system. while we are frequently adversaries, i still respect the man for his contributions to society. what i've seen here in this thread amounts to "ganging up" on one person, and i too read into the threads that he was being flamed .

no one sucking air can claim to be prejudice-free. we are products of our own families and cultures and will have that perspective regardless of how we try not to. this country has made great strides in the last century. build on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

srav, i would suggest picking up: Rage Of The Privelge Class by Ellis Cose. Many very well educated and successful Blacks are profiled, and all share their accounts with racism.

I do agree, education is key. And it's our best hope. But that does not eliminate the problem - it's deeper than any PhD or $100,000 salary we could earn. Many of us insolate ourselves with our success. "If it's not affecting me, then everything must be fine." That's a head game that will do us all in.

Your parents and mine spoke truth when they told us both not to be a statistic. They simply wanted us to be happy and healthy and not fall into the many traps that are out there. But that is the beginning, not the end of the story my man.

If you've read through the pages within this thread, as well as the story itself, you would recognize that "just saying no" isn't a viable alternative for many Blacks. It's either accept what's being offered, or... there is no or. That's it. Factors such as low FICO score, poor education, etc. may have led to the dillemma. But when you come from a historical 95% denial (as stated in the article) to present day predatory lending practices, it's a matter of survival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wdspeedbump,

the thing is, it's not like this thread was a setup to lure him in and gang up on him. it's just that more people posted that disagreed with him than agreed. that's not ganging up, it's just a symptom of this type of venue. you don't know who is going to be compelled to respond and you may be in the majority and you may not. besides, in the first few pages of this thread there were more people who disagreed with my opinion than agreed but again and that's not ganging up. it's just that at that time those who disagreed with me were the most active posters. you may or may not agree with me on this, but i believe everyone has a personal responsibility to stay in control of themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wdspeedbump, the vast majority of the "ganging up" was by me. Just one guy. The exchanges between he and I took up 6 outta 9 pages of this thread. The flames - IE name calling - didn't start happennig until around page 8.

You are of course entiltled to your opinion. That's fine. But libitarianism and racism shouldn't be confused. To much was said to support my claim.

"blacks are predisposted to drug abuse and prostitution - it's cultural"

How can anyone get "libertarian" outta that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

man:

I guess I do not understand "no other choice", we are beings of choice, and I myself have refuse to let anyone put me in bondage, that includes lenders, and this is funny we are talking about this, I just closed on my house 3 months ago, my lender I felt was giving me a interest rate, I felt was too high for my credit score. I fought him for 3 days, until he gave me a rate that was comparable for my score.

Why was I so impowered? This board, research aka "education"

As far as Dive statements, people are conditioned to believe all "stats" and conclusions, etc...... It is human nature, they are conditioned by media, radio, up bringing, etc....

I remember going to college I roomed with 3 white girls, they thought I got there on a scholarship "media" (that's all they've been told), they thought I lived in an apartment"media" (they did not know blacks live in houses too), it is just a lack of exposure to other nationalities.

So I am not offended by his thinking, but understanding of the world we live in today. Make no mistake, I just don't think about me, and my success, but I try to take anyone who wants to come, but excuses must be left at the door.

So as far as lenders, just don't accept the status quo and wait until you can do better, there is always a choice, and remember choosing to do nothing is a choice also.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

strav,

You are correct. We all have choices. In the case of far too many minorities - or people in general for that matter, the choice is to accept higher rates or go without the loan all together. Waiting for something better is also another choice. I suppose choosing between paying medical bills and feeding your children is a choice many people make as well.

The whole "choice" argument is valid, to a point. When the quality of the choices available to an individual are crappy, life can be a little difficult. This isn't about making excuses, or blaming someone else. Most often, the only solution is to bite the bullet and push forward. i get that. No argument. too many are falling by the way-side in the meantime. That whole survival of the fittest philosophy is meant for animals, not human beings.

Your success can't always be measured against someone else's circumstance. Based upon your response to my education thing, it's apparent you disagree (or ignored it all together). So I'll leave it alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

man:

I am not ignoring the education part, but I want you to understand, sometimes there are sacrifices to be made, and sometimes I feel blacks aren't willing to make them. The boycott is a prime example, they boycott the buslines, until things changed, they sacrificed, the luxury of a ride for almost 1 year, walking, sweating in the hot sun, etc....

They were willing to say no, and just wait.. That is where the power lies, the element of a choice, and willing to stand with the consequences for right. So must minorities against racist practices, you must be willing to stand, and sacrifice. You must be willing to say "No", I will move on to another lender. "No" you will not have me upside down in a mortgage

"NO" I am educated enough to know that closing cost are an average of 3%, "No", "NO,"NO"...... "NO" this interest rate is too high, "NO", I think I am going to report you, .......

As long as people can see, you will have racism, it is our job to be on the offense.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh* People gonna make me actually get up and do some work, put in some effort. "Stop the train wreck, Xan", "It's out of hand". Grr. Totally ruining my slothful groove since this thing won't die a quiet death on its own.

The flaming in this thread? Is officially over.

The bickering? It's done.

The inane name calling? It stops right now.

So speaketh Xan, My will be done. And if My will is not done, My asscake/ban stick hits pretty hard.

Continue at your own peril...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

xan:

I thought we were finally getting somewhere, didn't understand your post altogether, but hey I can take a hint.....

Let everyone be "CREDIT WORTHY"

SEE YA!!! :D:D:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read the thread. I don't care about the thread. I skimmed through and saw enough to get the gist of what it had turned into. It's messing up my chi, upsetting the spiritual balance between something and something or other. Some guy on acid probably stumbled on this thing and it totally ruined his buzz.

If we can't all just get along, then some people are just gonna have to get hit upside the head and dumbed up so they'll agree/get along with anything. I suggest the former to the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

XAN:

Now that was funny, you made me laugh..... :D:D:D

You are right, life is good, no need to ruin it with opinions.... :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
man:

I am not ignoring the education part, but I want you to understand, sometimes there are sacrifices to be made, and sometimes I feel blacks aren't willing to make them.

Quick question: How come? Why do you feel blacks aren't willing to make these sacrifices?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
man:

I am not ignoring the education part, but I want you to understand, sometimes there are sacrifices to be made, and sometimes I feel blacks aren't willing to make them.

Quick question: How come? Why do you feel blacks aren't willing to make these sacrifices?

i would have to say no on that one. not all blacks, but a large part. some can't let go of the past. a past that i had nothing to do with. my great great greats had nothing to do with. but yet it gets thrown up to me anytime somthing goes wrong and a finger is being pointed. so these same people teach their kids that the white man will keep them from doing whatever they want. then he grows to feel like he is less of a person not because of the way he is treated by whites, but for the things that were put in his head. he may not want to play with the white kids at school because their parents are keeping his parents down. he may not want to try to go to college because he doesn't think he has a chance because all the white kids will get picked first...and so on and so forth. the only person that can keep you from obtaining your goals is you. teach your kids to treat everyone as equals. don't let them feel like they are not good enough. teach them that if they work hard then they can become anything they want to be. teach them hate and they will hate.

i work for a bank and i do not see anywhere that shows blacks get higher rates on anything. i work in charlotte where the article was from. don't see where it is happening. the proof is on the application itself. fico, employment, employment history, income and the biggest factor...debt to income ratio. i don't care about this study or that study..show me the numbers and exactly where they came from. anyone can write an article and change numbers around to fit their intent and needs. i see this everyday in trading. but the real numbers come from the apps. themselves. i've never been asked my race when applying for a loan or cc. i've seen it on job apps, but that is an option you have to answer or not.

and then there's affirmative action.... :roll:

everyone has a right to their own opinion. in the 10 prev pages here i found that there were two people with two diff. opinions. one did the research to back their statements up. the other had fuel add to their fire by people telling them how right they were and how they felt bad for them..blah blah blah...do your homework, find the facts and then come back and discuss your findings in a mature manner.

rav and dive - :)%

xan - put your whips down now.. :D

to everyone - you hold the key to your own success...use it wisely..

success - The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tarbaby,

no one here is blaming racism/using it as an excuse for failure as everyone who spoke against it is successful and educated and obviously advocates personal responsibility. we were talking about eliminating the racism that exists, that would be the most fair solution for all involved. also, several of my posts were about how this is a two-way street...non-whites have to educate their children against racism as do whites...eliminating this is two-fold. and not just in education, people say minorities shouldn't blame non-minorities when they encounter obstacles but why it is okay for non-minorites shouldn't blame minorities when they encounter obstacles (e.g. i couldn't get a scholarship because all the women and minorities took them)?

plus, my point is you can pull out criminal stats on EVERY race that shows them more apt to commit certain types of crime or use certain types of drugs, that doesn't mean you can classify the whole race by that or judge the entire race by that. the same for the teen pregnancy stats...this is a not just a minority problem but each race deals differently with it as per the birth, abortion and adoption rates. this won't be solved until we approach it as the universal problem that it is.

xan,

sorry, i wanted to clear that up. i'll leave it be now as you wish. :notworthy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to reply to my good friend Grim from a few pages back... I hear Irish-American, Italian-American, Mexican-American etc. EVERY SINGLE DAY. There's even an "Italian-American" credit union close to where I live.

Perhaps you don't live in an ethnically diverse area, which wouldn't surprise me... I happen to live in Queens, NYC, which is well known as the most ethnically diverse area in the US. Two-thirds of the population of Queens is--shock horror--MINORITIES!!! That's why I love this place. :wink:

It always amazes me that white Americans are all too happy to celebrate their Irish or Italian etc. heritage, but get bent out of shape if anyone celebrates their non-white heritage. They get all pissed off about Kwanzaa but have no problem with St. Patrick's Day. Racist, much? :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have stayed out of this one personally but for the last guy Kwanza is not something that was brought over from Africa with the slave trade it is something that started in 1966 so I wouldn't consider directly heritage.

Also the comment was made about certain non minority holidays being celebrated but that when whites get upset about it is considered racists, excuse Black history month, the Miss Black America Pagent, The NAACP and several more I could list but just don't feel like it. Heaven forbid that if the white people who are slowly becoming the minority because of illegal immigration and everything else, where to have a White miss america or there version of the NAACP they would be sued in a heartbeat for racism. I actually read the other day that a college has a course on the unbearable whitness of Barbie come on now that is a little racist to me.

I am Ameican-Indian and Italian mixed, so should I sit on my but and cry racism because the white man came here and took my land no? I could and probably get away with it but I have enough common sense to get off my butt and do what needs to be done to make a proper living for myself. I have had racism reversed on been passed over for a job which I was very qualified for but since they had to have a certain number of minorities or because the guy doing the interview was a minority he opted for a minority female who new squat about what to do.

Many people think Kwanza is an ancient African celebration. In reality, Kwanza was established in the 1966 to provide an opportunity for the African American community to celebrate their heritage and reinforce positive community values.

Kwanza is celebrated for 7 days beginning on December 26th and ending on January 1st. On December 31st a feast is prepared for family and friends

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this