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CA calling third parties, help! (Update page 3)


tigerlily
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Yesterday morning, CA called my father-in-law (in another state) looking for me. (I'm not sure what exactly was said, but father-in-law knew it was a bill collector) He gave them my husband's cell phone number. CA called my husband's cell phone looking for me and my husband told him that he is not on my account and the CA shouldn't be calling him about it.

I called the CA and found out that they were calling about a charge-off on my Citibank card that occurred December 28th. I told them that I would contact them by letter and the CA told me he was going to put down that I was refusing to pay. I called the OC and was told that they could not do anything because the account was in charge-off, that I'd have to deal with the CA. I asked OC if they sold the account to the CA and they said no, that the OC (Citibank) still owned the account, but they could not pull it back.

Today, the CA called my husband at work and told him that he was responsible for handling this debt.

Now what do I do?

I believe the CA was in violation for contacting my father-in-law and for contacting my husband by cell phone, (they have my home phone number and did not call it either yesterday nor today) as well as being in violation for contacting my husband at work about a debt that is not his. He is not even an authorized user on the account.

I am writing up a DV for the CA to send CMRR right now. I am also trying to find someone at the OC who can pull back the charge off since it was only last week, so far, no luck on that.

Anyone here have any suggestions for me?

I was a member here awhile back, but had to re-register, because I forgot my old username! Thanks for any ideas you can give me about how I should proceed!

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Today, the CA called my husband at work and told him that he was responsible for handling this debt.

First of all, if you're not in a community property state, your husband bears NO liability for YOUR debt whatsoever. They have a contact number and they are going to use it to apply pressure. Talking to your husband is NOT considered 3rd party contact under the FDCPA.

I believe the CA was in violation for contacting my father-in-law and for contacting my husband by cell phone, (they have my home phone number and did not call it either yesterday nor today) as well as being in violation for contacting my husband at work about a debt that is not his. He is not even an authorized user on the account.

The contact with your FIL is not illegal UNLESS they discussed your debt with him or even told him they were calling to collect a debt. Contacting your spouse, as already stated, is NOT a violation. However, calling a cell phone IS a violation IF they are informed its a cell phone becuase they cannot cause you to incur charges for THEIR collection efforts. Also given that they have your home phone number, its crossing the line as they DO have YOUR contact information.

I am also trying to find someone at the OC who can pull back the charge off since it was only last week, so far, no luck on that.

Once they charge it off, they will just wash their hands of it and eventually will sell it.

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The CA can call a third party once as a way to locate you. Once a CA is given your correct address or phone number, they are not supposed to call again, unless, the info given was not correct.

As to calling your DH, they were allowed as it was given to them as a way to contact you. But, once your DH told them he was not a part to the debt, and to not talk to him, the CA should have terminated the call. As to calling your DH a second time telling him he is liable, was not proper.

Since you are composing your DV to them, be sure and include in your letter about the calls to your FIL and DH. You do not have to be exact as to wording, but, do include the dates, times, and names of caller, along with some main comments made, such as telling your DH he is liable. You get the drift. Your goal here is that you want to show them you are noting all calls and what was said.

You mentioned that the OC could not recall the debt from their assignee. That is a lie. They can if they want. BUT, what you can do is contact the OC again, first by phone to see if you can connect with the right person, or, in writing, sent CMRR, that their assignee has violated your rights under the laws and that they could, as the OC, be held liable for the actions of their assignee. For this reason you will only deal with the OC in resolving this matter to the satisfaction of both parties. If they do this, you will also stipulate that the CA must remove their TL as they are no longer involved in this matter. After all is said and done as to the amount you owe, etc. then you will barter with the OC to have them remove their negative remarks from your CR.

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Thank you! This is very helpful information!

I realized that the CA was allowed to discuss my debt with my husband, but I was wondering if they were allowed to tell my husband that he was solely responsible for it. When the CA called my husband's cell phone, he did inform them that it was a cell phone, and they have not called back on it. The CA does have my home phone number. I do not know how they got my husband's work phone number.

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The CA can call a third party once as a way to locate you. Once a CA is given your correct address or phone number, they are not supposed to call again, unless, the info given was not correct.

As to calling your DH, they were allowed as it was given to them as a way to contact you. But, once your DH told them he was not a part to the debt, and to not talk to him, the CA should have terminated the call. As to calling your DH a second time telling him he is liable, was not proper.

Since you are composing your DV to them, be sure and include in your letter about the calls to your FIL and DH. You do not have to be exact as to wording, but, do include the dates, times, and names of caller, along with some main comments made, such as telling your DH he is liable. You get the drift. Your goal here is that you want to show them you are noting all calls and what was said.

You mentioned that the OC could not recall the debt from their assignee. That is a lie. They can if they want. BUT, what you can do is contact the OC again, first by phone to see if you can connect with the right person, or, in writing, sent CMRR, that their assignee has violated your rights under the laws and that they could, as the OC, be held liable for the actions of their assignee. For this reason you will only deal with the OC in resolving this matter to the satisfaction of both parties. If they do this, you will also stipulate that the CA must remove their TL as they are no longer involved in this matter. After all is said and done as to the amount you owe, etc. then you will barter with the OC to have them remove their negative remarks from your CR.

So I should send a DV to the CA as well as the OC?

What I was thinking about doing was sending a DV to the CA since I know for a fact they do not own the debt at this time and then sending the OC a debt settlement proposal in writing detailing what their assigned CA did and offering to settle the debt with the OC directly. Does that sound like the best course of action?

I assume the CA knows the law, so by just outlining what their rep did on the phone, that should be enough to let them know that I know they are pushing their limits legally, right?

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but I was wondering if they were allowed to tell my husband that he was solely responsible for it.

What they told him was a complete LIE unless you're in a community property state. What state ARE you in ?

CA's LIE, among all their other vices, they will say anything to get people to cough up money. I would never believe a single word any CA has to say. If their lips are moving - they're lying !

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but I was wondering if they were allowed to tell my husband that he was solely responsible for it.

What they told him was a complete LIE unless you're in a community property state. What state ARE you in ?

CA's LIE, among all their other vices, they will say anything to get people to cough up money. I would never believe a single word any CA has to say. If their lips are moving - they're lying !

I am in Alabama.

When the CA called my husband's cell phone, he apparently had his credit record open as well, since he started talking to him about his accounts and how he should use an open line of credit he had to pay off my debt.

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Actually, having your husbands credit file for YOUR debt is a HUGE violation of the FCRA !! If your husband was never on the account, and AL is NOT a CP state, they have NO PERMISSABLE PURPOSE to pull his credit reports - he has NO liablity whatsoever !!

The illegal pull of his reports aside - and he should pull his reports himself to see the actual pull they did - what they did is another tactic, trying to make HIM pay, they'll try to get money any way they can and clearly are not above breaking the law to do it !!

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I tried to find out if Alabama is a community property state. A google search shows that the following states are: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin.

So, I am guessing that Alabama is not a community property state.

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Now it gets interesting! I was out of town from December 24th to yesterday and my mail was held at the post office. It was just delivered today and guess what was in it! One letter from Citibank (the OC) dated December 14 advising me that my account was about to go to charge-off if I didn't call by noon on December 28th and make an $89 payment by phone. The letter was dated the 14th, but there is no postmark, so I don't know when they sent it, but with the heavy volume of mail during that week, I'm sure that's why it wasn't delivered until sometime last week (which I of course didn't get because I was out of town). The letter closes with "Let's try to work something out."

I called the number on the letter and was told that I needed to discuss the matter with my postal carrier about why I didn't receive the letter in time. Okay fine. Then maybe they can explain the second piece of mail I received just today. My regular statement from Citibank, closing date is 12/28/2005 and it states "Help is available, please call to learn about our special payment options. Please give us the opportunity to assist you." And gives through the due date of January 23, 2006 to make a payment.

I asked the phone rep if I could speak to a supervisor and she put me on hold for about ten minutes, then came back and said this was a heavy call volume time and I should call back later. I asked for a direct number to the supervisor; none was available. A name to speak to? None was available.

Yes, I know the account was past due; I had made payments, but they were less than the minimum. I am responsible for the lateness; but I don't understand why they would send out a statement offering help and assistance the same day they were going to charge off the account.

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Actually, having your husbands credit file for YOUR debt is a HUGE violation of the FCRA !! If your husband was never on the account, and AL is NOT a CP state, they have NO PERMISSABLE PURPOSE to pull his credit reports - he has NO liablity whatsoever !!

The illegal pull of his reports aside - and he should pull his reports himself to see the actual pull they did - what they did is another tactic, trying to make HIM pay, they'll try to get money any way they can and clearly are not above breaking the law to do it !!

How do I find out if they pulled my husband's credit file?

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Okay, I just wrote a very long letter to the OC detailing the antics of their assigned CA and asking that they work with me directly. I'll be mailing that certified mail tomorrow, first thing.

Now, do I just send a regular DV to the CA and then a second one lodging my complaint about their collection practices?

I did some research and turns out that the CA (United Recovery) got slapped with a $240K civil fine back in 2002 for FDCPA violations (that are almost exactly the same as what they just did to me!) and as a result of their settlement, they are required to thoroughly investigate any consumer complaints they receive.

Or should I just wait on the DV and see what the OC responds with?

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DV the CA, the OC is not bound by the FDCPA.

Send your complaint to the FTC and your state AG too. Since they've already been slapped for violating the law, it is even MORE important for you to get that complaint in and let the authorities know that they are NOT behaving as required.

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Most definitely do as LadynRed says about pulling a report for your DH.

The report will show you both hard and soft pulls. Many people do not realize that soft pulls are displayed on the CR, and can only be seen by the consumer themselves. A soft is normally performed by your existing creditors periodically to see how you are doing. They use it as a way to determine if you are a threat or so great they want to offer you something. Other softs are when a potential creditor asks the CRA to send them so many names that fall into a certain profile as a way to offer their services.

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DV the CA, the OC is not bound by the FDCPA.

Send your complaint to the FTC and your state AG too. Since they've already been slapped for violating the law, it is even MORE important for you to get that complaint in and let the authorities know that they are NOT behaving as required.

Actually, the letter I sent to the OC was to alert them to how the CA they use seemed to be in violation of FDCPA.

I want to make sure I do this in the right order:

Send a DV to the CA. Don't mention the complaint about the possible FDCPA violations to them. Right?

Then send a complaint to the FTC about the CA.

Then send a complaint to my AG? Or the AG in the state where the CA is located?

A millions thanks once again, everyone's suggestions here have all made this mess so much easier for me to deal with!!

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You are correct, except that I would include some of the violations in your DV so they know full well you are saving any and all material and have knowledge of your rights, and will use accordingly, and, that you have notified their client. Why I say some is you do not want to give away all of your "secrets", yet. In the closing of your letter, you will include the verbiage that you retain all rights to amend the complaint, etc.

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You are correct, except that I would include some of the violations in your DV so they know full well you are saving any and all material and have knowledge of your rights, and will use accordingly, and, that you have notified their client. Why I say some is you do not want to give away all of your "secrets", yet. In the closing of your letter, you will include the verbiage that you retain all rights to amend the complaint, etc.

Okay, I'll amend my DV to the CA before I send it, then. I was hesitant to mention the possible violations because I was afraid it would give them time to cover their tracks, so to speak.

That's why I wasn't sure if I should just send a standard DV to the CA and tell them that I have documented what I believe to be violations of the FDCPA and that I'd be registering a formal complaint with their business in a separate letter.

I'm still waiting for my husband to check his credit reports to see if they did a pull on him while they were on the phone since they mentioned an open line of credit that he had as a suggestion to use it to pay off my debt. How many days does it take for such a thing to appear on a credit report anyway?

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How's this for a DV?

In response to my recent communication with you on (date), I am requesting that you provide me with validation that you own the debt you are trying to collect. When I spoke with your representative, (Mr. Rude) on (date), I told him that I would need validation in writing that your company was legally allowed to collect the debt. (Mr. Rude) told me that he was going to note that I was refusing to pay. This is incorrect. I told (Mr. Rude) that I was not refusing to pay. I asked that he provide me your company’s mailing address so I might request validation in writing as I have not received any written communication from your company regarding this matter.

Additionally, I demand that you cease all contact with any third parties in this matter. You have no legal reason to contact other parties to locate me because you have my proper mailing address.

I am aware of my rights under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and I feel that those rights have been violated by your company as your representative made contact with my husband on his cell phone, (despite the fact that he had my home telephone number) on (date), as well as calling my husband at his work on (the next day) and telling him that he was solely responsible for this debt. Your representative’s contact with a third party on (date) was also in a manner that violated the FDCPA. Your client has been informed of this matter and I reserve the right to file an official complaint with your company about this and other possible violations.

You may contact me by mail as it is inconvenient to contact me by phone.

Too much? Too little? Just about right?

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That's short and sweet. It does get your message across, but, you did not include all of the other info they need to provide to you that will meet the minimum of complying with the law, and, in the last part of 1st paragraph, you note your request for their address, but, no mention is made as to if this agent did or did not. Since they are receiving a letter from you, they can only assume their agent did provide the requested info. You need to be more specific as to why you are including this sentence. Before you complete this letter, why not go to the sample letter section and see if there are some words or phrases you may want to add.

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That's short and sweet. It does get your message across, but, you did not include all of the other info they need to provide to you that will meet the minimum of complying with the law, and, in the last part of 1st paragraph, you note your request for their address, but, no mention is made as to if this agent did or did not. Since they are receiving a letter from you, they can only assume their agent did provide the requested info. You need to be more specific as to why you are including this sentence.

Thanks for replying, retmar! You are just the one I wanted to see this since you suggested adding the violation stuff to the DV, I wanted to see if I'd done it well enough! :D

What other info do they need to provide me that meets the minimum of complying with the law?

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in the last part of 1st paragraph, you note your request for their address, but, no mention is made as to if this agent did or did not. Since they are receiving a letter from you, they can only assume their agent did provide the requested info. You need to be more specific as to why you are including this sentence.

I thought it was clear that I had to ask the agent for their mailing address because the phone call was the first contact I had received from their company about this and I had to get an address from him to know who to write to in order to request validation. And yes, I think it is presumed that since I am now writing to them, their agent did give me the address.

The second purpose of the first paragraph was to inform them that if their agent did note on the account that I was refusing to pay, that is in error because I did not say I refuse to pay, I simply told him I needed written validation.

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Read FDCPA 809 as it will tell you what is required. But, some of the other items are that the proof is from the OC, not their own computer generated printout. Their right to collect, and if any additional charges or fees are allowed, and how they are compiled. That is why I say to read in the sample leter section first as there is sufficient information there to assist you.

As to the complaints, your description is sufficient though some include the actual section violated. You do not want to give away all of your violations as, just as you noted, to not give them time to cover it up. But, do include the name, date, time, and comments made on the ones you do include.

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I reserve the right to file an official complaint with your company about this and other possible violations.

Did you mean with your company or against your company, like in filing a suit?

Ah, I see. I will change it to read "I reserve the right to file an official complaint against your company about these possible violations.

I don't mean it to come across as a threat to file suit, just an intent to file a complaint separate from this DV. My research on this CA found that they got hit with $240,000 in fines by the FTC for FDCPA violations back in 2002 and as a result, they are required to investigate any complaints they receive from consumers about their practices.

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