Not late and continuous calls

[spiagia]

Hi all, Long time no see! Hope all is well.

Question,

I have secured a mortgage (yey for me), and even though my payment is due the first, I am still in my grace until the 17th. The mortgage company continues to call me daily, even though I informed them payment will be made thru their automated system tomorrow Friday, May 12. They we indignant that I should post date payment last week, however, I respectfully declined (I don not post date anything, thank you very much) and they informed me that they would continue to call me daily until payment made. Now since they are OC, and not collection agency, do they fall under violation of the FDCPA ss1692 d (5)? Causing phone to ring or engaging in coversation repeatedly......blah blah, blah, or are they not covered under FDCPA since they are an OC?

Mind you they are not abusive, just annoying....AND they keep calling my cell phone, after repeatedly asking them not to do so, (I am loosing mins....hellllllooooo) and they have my home phone, which they never call. If they are in violation of FDCPA, I really would like to know, that way I can inform them of such, and take measures accordingly.

Thanks!

[creditobsessed]

No, they are not in violation of FDCPA because it does not cover OC's.

[DocDon]

No, but harassment via telephone is still just that. Does not matter who it is. They may think they're being clever, but they're treading into FCC territory now.

Enjoy the conversation. Ask them what they're wearing. Get their opinion on what brand of dog food you should use. It's their dime.

[breathing_easier]

If you're in your grace period, do they give a reason for the repeated calls?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Unless your state has extended FDCPA requirements to original creditors, this isn’t an FDCPA issue. Even if it were, I don’t see a once a day call as a violation; annoying yes but not a violation.

I also doubt that your local law enforcement agency (or whoever makes the determination in your area) is going to consider a once a day phone call from your mortgage company “harassment” when your loan payment is late - not as long as they keep the call civil/professional.

By they way, while I too would not usually post-date a check; arranging for your mortgage payment to come out of your account on a certain date is not quite the same thing...this is your home after all and it’s not as if your are dealing with some scummy collector.

[DocDon]

The payment isn't late. They are within their grace period. We've already established this is not an FDCPA issue. But thanks for letting us know we were correct.

Law enforcement won't go any further than taking a report, but you need that police report before any other action can be taken. Members have been doing fine having law enforcement take reports on harassing calls long before you showed up here.

There's nothing wrong with absorbing what goes on Robert, instead of always posting what you think will happen.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I'm afraid you are wrong, Doc.

If the payment is due on the first of the month and it isn't received on the first of the month then it is late; grace periods don't change the due date of a payment. The OP is (technically) in breach of contract; the fact that the contract allows a grace period before a late charge is applied notwithstanding.

Granted, as a practical matter, very few lenders are ever going to enforce their rights to collect their property just because a payment is a few days late but the payment is late.

I suspect that the OP is dealing with a sub-prime lender…such lenders are far more aggressive far earlier in the process than a prime lender usually would be. Also, foreclosures are up recently and I suspect all lenders are being a bit more aggressive with late payers.

I guess what I’m saying here is that complaining about being called every day and wondering about FDCPA violations is the hard way to solve the problem of the phone calls…paying the loan on the due date or pre-arranging for the payment to come out will stop the phone calls and the problem is solved.

[spiagia]

It is a subprime lender, however, I have never been late, and, more than anything, the continuous phone calls make me feel like being spiteful, and make them wait until the day before the grace is up to make the payment. Doc you are right, it is their dime, and I will engage in pleasantries with them. Even though I am past the 1st of the month, I still feel that I am being "harrassed".

Like I said, they will recieve their payment the day before the grace is up, endure the phone calls, and be spiteful.

Thanks for the input, I just think it is a shame people aren't protected from this. I don't feel that it is worth filing a police report, unless they cross the line.

Years ago, when I worked in collections for an OC, I was told that you could not call a consumer more than once per every 24 hours, and if you engaged in conversation with them, and they made a commitment to pay the bill, and they breached the agreement, then you had the right to contact them after agreement had been breached. However during the time lapse between date of conversation with agreement and date of payment due per said agreement, OC could not make contact with consumer. Mind you, this was early 1990, and the company I worked for were very diligent in this process. After researching the FDCPA, I haven't found this information, just wondering if it might be covered under something else. The guidelines we had to follow were very detailed in stipulating the lines collection agents could cross. Other details of collectors were no phone calls as per parameters specified in FDCPA.

Does anyone know what I am talking about?

[DocDon]

I'm afraid you are wrong, Doc.

If the payment is due on the first of the month and it isn't received on the first of the month then it is late; grace periods don't change the due date of a payment. The OP is (technically) in breach of contract; the fact that the contract allows a grace period before a late charge is applied notwithstanding.

Here's the definition of a grace period:

From lectlaw.com:

GRACE PERIOD - The time period specified under a contact during which a payment is permitted beyond the due date of the payment without penalty.

Anything else I can help clear up?

spiagia, no, it's not to the point of filing a police report. It was just something to keep in the back of your mind since other rules apply to telecommunications outside of the statutes regularly talked about here.

You may want to work toward getting yourself re-fied with a more.... "classy" lender?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Here's the definition of a grace period:

From lectlaw.com:

GRACE PERIOD - The time period specified under a contact during which a payment is permitted beyond the due date of the payment without penalty.

Precisely, Doc...the due date is a fixed point in time set by the contract...the grace period only impacts how late the payment can be without incurreing additional fees; it does not change the date the payment is due.

I'm sure recovering attorney or someone else with a JD after his name can affirm this.

[DocDon]

I'm not the one that said they were in breach of contract.

Backpedal faster.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I'm not the one that said they were in breach of contract.

Backpedal faster.

Who's backpeddaling...the payment is late...I said two posts ago that the grace period only applies to when they charge late fees.

[spiagia]

I pulled my mortgage documents, just to clear one thing up, it does not indicate there is a breach of contract until payment is past due 30 days. Payment due on 1st.....no where in the contract does it specify that it is a breach of contract if payment not paid by the first of the month. Only states if payment 30 days past due it is a breach of contract....

[DocDon]

O.k. Robert. I guess I was seeing things with that whole breach of contract thing.

[astiman]

I guess we ALL were seeing things, LOL

Be kind to the collector.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I guess we ALL were seeing things, LOL

Be kind to the collector.

What collector? There is no collector involved.

The OP is dealing with his mortgage lender and by his own admission; the calls have been civil and professional – he just doesn’t like getting called.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which some will go to find a complicated solution to a simple problem.

All the OP has to do to stop the calls is...

1) make the payment on the due date, or

2) arrange for the payment to come out of his account on a date certain or (if unwilling to do either of the above)

3) not answer the stupid phone!

I mean really…this isn’t that complicated!

As I mentioned before, I'd bet that the OP got a loan from a sub-prime lender and when you do that, you have to accept that fact that such lenders always treat you as sub-prime! That means they will always be more agressive than a typical lender dealing with A+ paper.

Even were this a third party collection agent and/or the FDCPA was in play; please show me one court decision where the court held that one phone call a day, especially where there is no indication that the conversations have been anything other than professional and civil, is a violation of FDCPA or would rise to the level of “harassment” under the law?

I suggest you save your righteous indignation for the scum CAs that actually do abuse consumers and break the law. There are more than enough of them to keep you busy being indignant.

[DocDon]

Robert, you're really pushing it. Opinions are one thing. Calling others stupid because they don't take your opinions as gospel is another.

No more.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Robert, you're really pushing it. Opinions are one thing. Calling others stupid because they don't take your opinions as gospel is another.

No more.

Hugh???

I didn't call anybody stipid except the phone...if it complained than I"m sorry if I hurt its feelings.

[DocDon]

Not going through this twist of words game with you again.

The OP stated payment would be made 5 days before the end of the grace period through their automated system.

There was no need for your continued contempt toward the members of this board.

[admin]

Ok kiddies, Momma K here.

Mr. Nashville -

1. Grace period starts from the first day of the statement and usually doesn't last for the whole 30 day time marking when payment is due. This is the way most credit card companies make money. After the grace period, the CC can charge you interest on the entire balance. Most are dropping their grace periods to 20 days, the scum

2. The due date means the drop dead date before you get hit with the late payment fee.

3. Technically, you have 59 days from the day of the statement before a creditor can report you 30 days late on your credit report. After this point, you are 30 days past the due date.

Time line:

Statement date: Day 1

Date you receive the statement: ~Day 4

Grace Period: Day 20-25 Interest begins to accrue

Date Due: Day 30 **Late payment fee incurred

Late reporting on Credit Report: Day 60 **2nd late payment fee incurred

[breathing_easier]

The due date means the drop dead date before you get hit with the late payment fee.

Except when you're dealing with Verizon. In reply to a goodwill letter I wrote to them in 2003 they said that to be considered 30 days late you only had to pay one day past the due date stated on your statement. Huh? I called the writer of the letter for clarification as I was sure he couldn't have meant what he wrote. Yep, said the same thing on the phone. I had a 30-day late from 2001 that I was trying to get deleted. He said cheerily, "If you were 30 days late you were really probably 60 days late because we consider one day past the due date printed on your statement as 30 days late." To this day I don't think he knew what he was talking about, but a few months later Verizon stopped reporting all but seriously delinquent accounts to the CRAs (to save money) so the entire TL vanished. Ah well, I still use Verizon as I like their service, but sheesh!

[breathing_easier]

....AND they keep calling my cell phone, after repeatedly asking them not to do so, (I am loosing mins....hellllllooooo) and they have my home phone, which they never call.

You need to change your phone number with their main office, not the person who calls once per day. Granted, the person who calls each day should update the record, but sounds like that's not going to happen. Call the main number and have them delete your cell phone number from their records.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I guess we ALL were seeing things, LOL

Be kind to the collector.

Well, you really “got” me, astiman - how stupid of me to think you were engaging in the discussion at hand (thinking that there was a collector involved in the OPs situation) when I realized only much later that you were just back on your “Robert_Nashville is a collector” bandwagon.

You post all of 73 messages in over a year and a significant percentage of those have been to accuse me of being a collector! I can't imagine why you are so fixated on the issue; especially when I offered over a year ago to prove to you that I’m not a collector or have any connection whatsoever to the collection industry. I told you then that if you wanted to know the facts about me that you could PM me and I’d reveal as many verifiable personal facts about myself as you were willing to reveal about yourself. Not surprising, however, you never took me up on that offer.

Did you not take me up on my offer because you aren’t interested in any facts that would contradict your assertions? Perhaps it was just that you’ve found that it’s much easier to disparage and deride someone you don’t know when you are hiding behind the anonymity of a forum screename than it is to do so in the light of day?

Do you think that, perhaps, you could find something more constructive to contribute to the forum or is accusing me of being a collector the best you can do?

[astiman]

Well, bob,

I wasn't referring to you, but if the shoe fits.....

Try the decaf, lol

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Well, bob,

I wasn't referring to you, but if the shoe fits.....

Try the decaf, lol

Great! I'm glad to hear I was wrong after all.

That begs the question, however, of what “collector” were you suggesting we/someone “be kind to...”?