Can someone PLEASE give a FINAL answer on SOL? PLEASE???

[Aerovette]

I search and read and search and read and I know NOTHING.

I am in Texas and SOL is 4 years.

My TU report does NOT show DOLA. ( TU report is the one pulled by CA)

It says this TL is estimated to drop off 6/2009

SO...Is SOL expired at 6/2006 OR

Do I add 180 days to that date for SOL expiration?

There are as many posts saying YES add 180 days as there are saying NO.

ALSO. Can I REALLY put my AZZ on the line using the "estimated drop off date"?

Reason being, the CA that is about to sue me says the DOLA is 5/03. I want so bad to tell themn to take a flying leap, BUT, if the estimated drop off date is not correct OR I need to add 180 days to the 4 years, it changes EVERYTHING.

What is your FINAL answer?

[hinky]

TU doesn't call it DOLA, but according to the drop off date your DOLA was 6/2002. Cut-and-dried in my opinion.

My inclination would be: The CRA's get their info from the furnishers (CA's and OC's). If the CA wanted to use that 180 days, then that's how they should have determined their date when reporting. In other words, how can the CA tack on an extra 180 days in court, when it woudl be contrary to what they have reported to the CRA's? I think what is shown on your report is all you've really got to go by. I can't imagine that a judge would disagree with that, but stranger things have happened.

[Aerovette]

There MUST BE some legal determination on this. We all know that credit reports have errors in them so how can I all of a sudden trust this date to be legally binding. I appreciate the opinion. Really truly I do, but I am asking for more than opinion. I really need an absolute final answer and perhaps a statute or article or something to back it up. Everyone has shown different opinions on this, but there can only be ONE correct answer. I cannot go tell these people to take a flying leap and THEN find out the date is something else.

[nascar]

You've posted this same question 3 or 4 times now. I know that you have received the answer more than once.

Maybe you should pick up the phone and call an attorney...unless you're not sure you can trust their answer either.

[VonAngel (aka EarthAngel)]

Nascar is right. Try to keep your posts (about the same topic) in one thread please. I'm about to post the same answer I gave you in another thread here...again.

You do NOT add 180 days to determine SOL for being sued. Where are you reading that? The SOL clock starts ticking from the moment you miss a payment (same as going delinquent). SOL exists to give creditors/collectors a reasonable amount of time to collect a debt. The 180-days is often referred to when determining a negative TL's removal date per FCRA § 605. (Even that is a conflicting issue.) If you're still unsure, do a Google search. When having questions about statutes and consumer laws, I would even call the AG's office.

[VonAngel (aka EarthAngel)]

There MUST BE some legal determination on this. We all know that credit reports have errors in them so how can I all of a sudden trust this date to be legally binding. I appreciate the opinion. Really truly I do, but I am asking for more than opinion. I really need an absolute final answer and perhaps a statute or article or something to back it up. Everyone has shown different opinions on this, but there can only be ONE correct answer. I cannot go tell these people to take a flying leap and THEN find out the date is something else.

According to your OWN testimony, your CR is ALL you've got, hun. Trust it or not; that's up to you. I know you're frustrated, but this is a free board (meaning, there are many MANY different opinions on here). None of us can come on here and almost demand a "FINAL answer" to something that most of us have had to research ourselves. Even so, we have tried our best to answer your question. Call your state AG's office. Go to the library. Do some Internet searching. Eventually, you'll find what you're looking for...w/ the supporting documents you need. SOL is a STATE issue. Unless we know what state you're in, someone from the same state wouldn't know to help you. You should also search the statutes in your state. It could be an exhausting task, but it's well worth it if you don't want to be sued or want to use SOL as an affirmative defense.

[Aerovette]

I am NOT the only one asking this question and being confused by the answers. As I said, I have searched and read and still have no answer. I was hoping if there was a FACTUAL LEGAL answer to the question, then the post might be made a sticky so EVERYONE could get the correct information. Too many opinions can get people in SERIOUS trouble. If I had money for a lawyer, I'd have money to pay the alleged debt and all this would be moot. It is because so many people have already done the research, that I am asking. I am trying not to make a bad thing worse by getting my facts bass ackwards. As for the posts...

ONE post is asking how to get the DOLA when the OC will not give it and the CA is lying.

The SECOND post is asking if my method of calculation is correct.

The THIRD post was an effort to get it all in one package so that I could get SOMEONE to tell me for a fact what it is. Attorneys don't do ANYTHING for free and I am not going to pay justto get an answer to one question. There are THOUSANDS of posts on this forum and thousands of OPINIONS. I am not looking for an opinion. There is ONE answer. I am sorry to have bothered any of you . I did not realize that I needed to already know everything about collections before I signed up. But then again, if I knew all there was to know, I would not have a need to join the forum would I? I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I am about to be hauled in to court, I can't afford an attorney and SOL is a FREE defense. Forgive me for wanting to find out from those with PERSONAL experience what the FACTS are. Sorry to take up your time and I sincerely thank those that responded (especially those answering all the posts).

[VonAngel (aka EarthAngel)]

The AG's office is a FREE office. Assisting consumers and giving consumer protection is what they do. I HIGHLY recommend that you talk to them if you don't trust our answers.

[Aerovette]

The AG's office is a FREE office. Assisting consumers and giving consumer protection is what they do. I HIGHLY recommend that you talk to them if you don't trust our answers.

Thank you dear. And thanks for your previous input as well.

For what it's worth, it is NOT a matter of trust. It is a matter of knowing which answer to trust. The AG's office is not concise in their information either. I just contacted them.

[divemedic]

There are no certin answers in law. There are court decisions that are on BOTH sides of any given legal issue. Ask a legal question of 6 lawyers and 2 judges and you will likely get AT LEAST 8 different answers.

Your problem here is that you are confusing SOL and the FCRA's reporting period. The SOL is set by state law and varies from state to state. In all states, the SOL begins to run when the final element of a cause of action occurs. In most states, the SOL can be paused (called tolling) if the defendant leaves the state or is otherwise unavailable for service of process. In some states, payment or even a promise to pay resets the SOL.

The FCRA reporting period states that an item can only be reported for 7 years after it is charged off or sent to collections (internally or third party). The FCRA goes on to say that an item (for reporting purposes) is considered to be charged off no later than 180 days after the commencement of the delinquency of the reporting perion which immediately preceeded the charge off or collection.

Don't take our word for it, read the FCRA, your state SOL laws and the opinion letters of the FTC and your State AG.

[RSB]

I wonder things about the SOL, too. What I have decided, based on what I have read, at this forum...is....The sol begins on the day of the last payment. The CR shows this as the month the account became 30 days late. Also shown is 60 days delinquent, 90 days delinquent, 180 days delinquent.

So, the SOL can be narrowed down to the exact month, but not the exact day of that month.

[computerguy]

You got to figure in also, if they're going to try to rake you over the coals by making a claim you having a written contract, which is generally a longer SOL, or are they going to come at you with the Open Account which is generally a shorter SOL. State statutes come into play on these 2 things.

[Aerovette]

Ok, so far I have spoken to a lawyer and the AG office as well as the OC.

The person at the AG office says that SOL is 4 years after final action has taken place. Final action COULD be, last payment, but it COULD be date of Charge off OR even the sale to the first CA

The Lawyer says take the date it is expected to vacate my report and back off 7 years and 6 months from there. That determines last MISSED payment.

The OC that said thay had no information, finally came through and says that the charge off happened on 6/30/03 and that the DOLA is PROBABLY 6 months prior. That means it would be 1/03. The craziness is that IF it is 01/03 then the expected drop off date should be 2010, not 2009.

By what the lawyer says, the DOLA is 01/02

By what the CA says, it is 06/03

I hope you can see whay I am so frustrated.

[Methuss]

I see where this is coming from and it happens often. No need for people to get wonky over it.

SoL and reporting time are two entirely differnet things.

The SoL is State specific and determines how long a creditor has to sue you to force payment. This timer starts with the last payment made. This is totally different from...

The reporting time is how long a bad item can remain on your credit report as defined in the FCRA. The clock starts from the point the account got behind and was never actually caught up. So if you struggled makinging less than the minimum payments for an entire year and never got the account current, the clock starts with the first payment that was below minimum. The laws says 7.5 years is the maximum time for most bad items on your credit report. There are a few exceptions. Bankruptcies can show on your report for 10 years. And, any loan which had a starting balance over $150,000 or employment records paying more than $75,000 can stay forever. Now these are maximums the law allows. CRAs and furnishers can choose to report for less time if they want to. For the record, the big-3 generally just use 7 years for everything except bankruptcy to keep their record keeping simple.

So. You are in Texas. That means if you stopped paying on a credit card account 4 years ago, they can't sue you for it...but it can remain on your credit report for up to another 3 years.

Does that help clear it up for you?

[nascar]

Add this to the mix -

Exerpt from Texas Statutes

§ 16.004. FOUR-YEAR LIMITATIONS PERIOD. (a) A person

must bring suit on the following actions not later than four years

after the day the cause of action accrues:

(1) specific performance of a contract for the

conveyance of real property;

(2) penalty or damages on the penal clause of a bond to

convey real property;

(3) debt;

(4) fraud; or

(5) breach of fiduciary duty.

Now, determine what constitutes a cause of action pursaunt to your agreement and figure out what day that occurred. Add your four years and you have your answer.

[Aerovette]

Methuss, you may have hit on what is wrong !!! You are awesome. See the MAJOR stumbling block is that I cannot get a CORRECT DOLA. So, I can't calculate SOL. Several here have advised using my report, but I hesitate to do that. Especially after what you just added. If the delinquency started the Bad Credit 7.5 year clock, that does NOT mean it reflects DOLA and started the SOL clock too. I may have made a payment AFTER the derog hit which would keep the drop off date intact, but bump the SOL out further. Is that what you said? I can see that happening. Any suggestions from you for getting DOLA? I really don't trust the CA to be truthful. They don't WANT me to know it has passed.

[mikey]

believe me, if they file sue, it is their burden to provide records of last activity/payment if you dont have the last statement you paid on it. the whole purpose of sol is our right to a speedy trial due to loss recorsds and witnesses. they have to furnish this and it wont be a copy of your credit report either. in mine, they sent me my last statement which only boosted my case defense showing expired sol. it can stay on my record another 3 yrs but at least i will win in court and can not be sued for it. sol for nonpayment and sol on credit reporting are two different issues...but both if nothing is done in the entire time are the same starting time. dont pay on it if you are close to expiration of the sol...or you will restart the time they have to sue you.

[Aerovette]

Now, determine what constitutes a cause of action pursaunt to your agreement and figure out what day that occurred. Add your four years and you have your answer.

That is the problem I had with the AG's office. It is vague, no, undefined !!

[Aerovette]

believe me, if they file sue, it is their burden to provide records of last activity/payment if you dont have the last statement you paid on it. the whole purpose of sol is our right to a speedy trial due to loss recorsds and witnesses. they have to furnish this and it wont be a copy of your credit report either. in mine, they sent me my last statement which only boosted my case defense showing expired sol. it can stay on my record another 3 yrs but at least i will win in court and can not be sued for it. sol for nonpayment and sol on credit reporting are two different issues...but both if nothing is done in the entire time are the same starting time. dont pay on it if you are close to expiration of the sol...or you will restart the time they have to sue you.

My PREFERENCE is that they cannot validate. If that happens, they cannot sue or collect. BUT, if my only way out is SOL, I'll take that too. I can deal with the CRAs in due time.

[Methuss]

"Cause of Action" is a term to describe a greivance. In the case of unpaid bills, the cause of action is the failure to make a payment when required by the contract terms.

As far as figuring out the DoLA, that is really up to the consumer. You have to know and have the ability to substantiate when you last made a payment. Civil court does NOT work like criminal court. If you get sued and offer up a defense of expired statute of limitations, you will need to be able to show that that defense is valid. This can be done by producing your own records, or by making the OC/CA turn over records in discovery.

[LadynRed]

Did you make payments with personal checks ?? If so, your bank is supposed to keep those records from your checking for 7 years. You can always ask for copies of checks from the period you believe was the last payment.

Yes, it'll cost you money, but you might get your right answer and have proof for court on top of that.

This mess is the reason why you MUST keep records, every checkbook register, every final statement, etc. If you stop paying on a debt, you should keep the final statements that show the progresssion to charge-off. If you pay off a loan, you should keep the the final 2 statments that show that you DID pay it off and that the payment was accepted and the balance zeroed out. You should be keeping copies of checks or at least registers and statements (now that most banks don't return checks anymore) for a LEAST 7 years even for tax purposes. And speaking of taxes, you should be keeping tax returns AND the documentation to support them for 7 years.

With scanners and CD-r's being pretty cheap these days, you can scan everything and keep an electronic version of all of this stuff.

[Aerovette]

Thank you. I don't think there is a doubt about what I should have done. I did not ever expect to be in this predicament however and NEVER knew there was any defense against unscrupulous collectors or that collectors were that underhanded. Therefore, I have NOTHING. I have no documents. From what I understand, an answer to the DV does NOT have to prove DOLA, only the obligation to pay. So I don't see how I can determine if the CA is providing a false date. The ONLY piece of information I have is that the account went to the first CA on 6/??/03. That info came from the OC. BUT, I have heard that happens only after 6 months of not being able to collect. That would put DOLA around 1/??/03. Now the CA told me "You haven't paid on this account since March of 03, whis is contrary to all of what I just wrote. It would be a LOT smpler if the CRA were forced to list DOLA.

[newbie7069]

I think you missed the primary point in the Lady's post....contact your bank and get copies of the bank statements for the period between 12/2002-6/2003 for starters and see if there are any payments to that CC. You'll have to pay to get those statements, but it may go along way to answering your question.

And the furnishers of the information to the CRAs ARE required to list that information, especially the DOFMD...it's required.

[Aerovette]

So can I sue the CRAs for not having that information? I assure you it IS NOT on there.

[LadynRed]

No, you have no grounds to sue the CRA. Just because it's not listed on the reports you pull doesn't mean it's not in the CRA's database. There is certain information that furnishers of information MUST provide IF they report, so read the FCRA before you go off trying to sue them for something.

The CRA's cannot be held liable for a person's failure to keep adequate records. In bankrutpcy, not keeping adequate records can be grounds for dismissal of a BK case ! Granted, no one EXPECTS to have to deal with this kind of crap, but it's just not wise to throw away financial documentation, it's just prudent business sense to keep records.

I think your best bet is to get those bank records, copies of checks would be even better because bank statements are not going to tell you WHO the check was written to - unless you have all your check registers.