Jump to content

Dive...Verizon help please!!


Jess1120
 Share

Recommended Posts

Okay... I filed a suit against Verizon for multiple FCRA violations (re-aging, innaccurate reporting, failure to investigate) and they called today to discuss the account.

She told me that they found my payment info from last year, showing only a partial payment just before they charged it off. I told her that I paid the full amount before it ever went to collections/charge off... and she wants me to try and pull my bank records from march 05 to prove I made the payment. I told her I can't get payment info from that far back, and even if I could, I'm not suing on the basis of whether a payment was made or not. I'm suing on all of the FCRA violations.

So then she says "well even if you win and get some money, the court can't legally make us delete the account from your credit files". I said the heck they can't! If I can prove that you are reporting inaccurate information and deliberately poisoning my credit rating with the re-aging (which she also denies... saying it's not re-aging to alternate between pays as agreed and CO as long as the DOFD stays the same) then you HAVE to delete the account...that's the whole point of the FCRA!

Also... there is no DOFD listed on my account with any of the CRAs. It reads pays as agreed forever...then suddenly just changes to CO..no late payments whatsoever.

She said she won't delete the account unless I can prove I made the payment before CO. I told her we'd have to go to court then because it's false reporting and I won't let my credit score keep hurting over it.

Oh and get this... I told her the CO is the only negative on my report so I want it gone. She says "well if it's the only negative.. one CO isn't going to hurt you that much"!! :shock:

One more thing. She also says a payment was made to a collection agency in March of this year... I never made any payment... I know I didn't. She's going to try and find out who made the payment to NCO (ugh).

So... now I'm frustrated and need help to figure out what to do next. Our court date is 12/1/06 and I don't even have anything written up for it yet. If I can't prove I made the full payment... does that mean I don't have a case?

Sorry this is so long!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay... I filed a suit against Verizon for multiple FCRA violations (re-aging, innaccurate reporting, failure to investigate) and they called today to discuss the account.

One more thing. She also says a payment was made to a collection agency in March of this year... I never made any payment... I know I didn't. She's going to try and find out who made the payment to NCO (ugh).

So... now I'm frustrated and need help to figure out what to do next. Our court date is 12/1/06 and I don't even have anything written up for it yet. If I can't prove I made the full payment... does that mean I don't have a case?

Sorry this is so long!

Calm down. Stay focus. CA is trying to cloud the real issues of your case.

They may try that same stunt in Court. Don't let them! You still have a case because it is irrelevant whether or not you owe the money. Your case is about FCRA violations. Plain and simple.

Further, the CA making a fraudulent payment with intent to restart the

SOL and reporting longer on your CR are serious violations. After your court date OR before (if you have the time) I suggest that you complain to the FTC and your State Attorney General.

When Re-aging and a mysterious recent payment (without reducing the debt) first appeared on my CRs, which I did not make, I filed complaints. The CA sent me a CMRRR Letter telling me that the account had been deleted from all 3 CRAs. I legally owe the money to the OC, the SOL had not expired, and the debt had been Validated by the OC. I have two years to sue the CA for violations under Florida consumer laws. If they countersue, it is no big deal because their violations put me ahead of the game. I want them to bring suit, then I can Countersue without paying court filing fees.

When they are in violation of the law, whether or not you owe money

is irrelevant. They may countersue, but they must prove their case against

you. Maybe DIVE can answer the other parts for you.

Best regards,

June

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! They found the "partial payment". Sounds to me like an accounting dispute. Sometimes, these kinds of things are solvable through goodwill if it's an honest mistake. I don't know about Verizon, but I sure haven't had a problem getting honest no-fault disagreements removed from my credit report in the past.

Thing is - it sounds like she wanted to work with you. Rare is the bank that cannot produce records from 2005! Even those that went bankrupt must be required to put their records with some federal or state agency. Why can't you get the records?

About this whole lawsuit thing - do you have damages? If not, then what are you going to sue for? Mental anguish works on occassion, so long as you have some way to back that up.

1. Under the FCRA, there is no private cause for action against an original creditor who furnishes inaccurate information.

2. It sounds like the re-aging complaint would be against the CA, not Verizon. I assume that you have disputed the Compliance Date through the CRA? If so, and if you have clearly and repeatedly attempted to resolve this inaccuracy with the CA, then you might well have a case there.

3. Failure to reinvestigate - did they really fail to reinvestigate, or do you not agree with the results of the reinvestigation? You have to show that either they did not reinvestigate, that they did so in a negligent manner resulting in a failure to decide in your favor, or that they operated with malice in deciding against you in their reinvestigate (ie - that Jess is such a pain, let's just verify the debt and let her suffer!).

I think people are confused about the whole lawsuit thing. Sometimes it has the desired affect, like it partially did in your case - wake up people to deal reasonably with you. Once that happens, then you have to decide - go for the throat or try to work it out.

Maybe you did try to work it out here, but it sounds like Verizon will be able to tell the judge - we wanted to investigate this further, but the plaintiff failed to provide bank records from two years ago. We did the following to investigate (blah blah blah) and this was our conclusion.

I am not at all sure that the judge can rule that information must be deleted from your credit report. I need to research that further. I have read a number of opinions and I have yet to find a single opinion which included such relief.

To me, the solution seems to be:

1. Get your account statements for the period in question

2. Get your bank records for the period in question

3. Compare the two

4. If you did PIF, then prove it to them

5. If you didn't PIF, determine if that is because some statement was generated after you PIF'd and you weren't aware of these additional charges, for example. In this case, it's a battle, you have to fight them on this billed amount

Let's assume #4 above is the situation. In that case, you would need to provide them with this as clear proof that you don't owe the debt. Then, if they disregard this on a repeated basis, you have a good chance to win in court. Suing because you think you paid and they think you didn't, well, that's not going to get you too far. At least, during discovery all the info will come out and it will be clear as day what is what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From "Fair Credit Reporting" by the National Consumer Law Center:

Consumers who may not have suffered damages that would be recoverable under the FCRA should also consider a declaratory judgement action under the Declaratory Judgement Act (DJA). Few such actions have been filed under the FCRA, and the decisions are split. One court held that it had jurisdiction to hear a suit for relief under the DJA in a case that alleged that the defendant had violated the FCRA....However, another court recently held that an FCRA plaintiff should not be able to use the DJA to supplement a claim for damages ... Nonetheless, a court with a less restrictive view of the appropriate role of the DJA may permit a plaintiff to use it to establish that particular conduct violates the FCRA, regardless of damages.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, in cases in which a consumer sues for damages based upon the FCRA and wins, deletion of the derogatory information would logically follow in order to avoid further action.

Bottom line - you might be able to get a declaratory judgement if you can prove that the information reported is inaccurate so long as you have an actionable violation of the FCRA to base your suit on. So far, I don't see one against Verizon here, perhaps against the CA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your responses so far

Everything has gone directly through Verizon. They're trying to tell me that some payment was made to a collection agency... but I've never received a letter or call from anyone regarding this account, nor have I ever made a payment to a CA... and this so called CA has never been reported on my CRs either.

I told her that the account was reporting a CO for $104... I disputed it in August and magically, it changed to a "paid" CO with $0 balance. I never made a payment so this is false reporting. She says the payment was made in March of this year, and that's "probably" when it changed the status to paid CO. This is also incorrect since the report I pulled (and printed for proof) in August still said unpaid. See what I mean? Their records are totally wrong.

About the payment... I can't get the records because there are none. When I paid them 20 months ago it was with a money order. I kept it for awhile as I always do, and when I never heard anything else from Verixon, I assumed the payment cleared and everything was fine. A mistake obviously, but there's nothing I can do about it now. The partial payment is not right because I never only made a partial payment.

I just received a call from her saying nevermind about the bank statements, but... can I fax her a copy of my credit reports so that she can see where the violations are. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not since it might just give them a better defense against me.

The thing is... I DO have proof of FCRA violations. You cannot re-age an account by reporting CO for several months, and then pays for a month or two, and back to CO. They did this on three different occassions. There are no late payments recorded and no first date of major delinquency. They changed the status three times... each time I disputed. It went like this:

Original TL: CO for $104, past due amount of $31

After the first dispute: Paid CO, $0 past due

2nd dispute: Paid CO, past due amount of $31 (how does that work?)

Final dispute: Paid CO, $0

All came back verified of course. As far as investigating goes... I sent three CMRRR mailings to them requesting they investigate and provide me with verification of the debt, late payment history etc. They refused every time. It wasn't until I filed the suit that somebody was even willing to contact me regarding the account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Under the FCRA, there is no private cause for action against an original creditor who furnishes inaccurate information.

There is under the California version of the FDCPA, though (the Rosenthal FDCPA), under the "false and misleading" incorporation of the FDCPA to include OCs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some bad info being passed around here.

You have a private right of action against ANYONE who furnishes incorrect info to a CRA. OC or CA, it does not matter.

However, to trigger that right, you MUST submit a dispute to the CRAs. If you read the act, that is the first step in 1681(s)(2)(B). If you just send a letter to the furnisher, it does not count.

Also, their threat to not delete even if you win a judgment is just silly. Assuming for a moment they'd be that stupid... you could just sue them from now til infinity and keep getting $$$. I'd welcome that actually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the extra info guys!

I have disputed with the CRAs... several times... and I've kept all of the results in a file (along with the green cards, certified slips, copies of my letters and Verizon's letters back to me etc) I've been preparing the whole time for a lawsuit since everything I've read on here about dealing with Verizon has been pretty bad! I didn't think I'd be able to get anywhere without at least the threat of going to court.

I'm just not sure if it's a good idea to send a copy of my report to them. Think I'll pass that one over to the legal issues section...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have a private right of action against ANYONE who furnishes incorrect info to a CRA. OC or CA, it does not matter.

However, to trigger that right, you MUST submit a dispute to the CRAs. If you read the act, that is the first step in 1681(s)(2)(B). If you just send a letter to the furnisher, it does not count.

I was reading it as an s2a problem (where there is no private right of action), but that's not what pilgrimfaraway actually said. I've been exhausted this month, so I didn't catch stuff I normally would. Thanks for setting things straight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. when I stated that the OP cannot sue the OC for furnishing inaccurate information, I was referring to the OP's list of causes for action :

Okay... I filed a suit against Verizon for multiple FCRA violations (re-aging, innaccurate reporting, failure to investigate) and they called today to discuss the account.

I didn't say she cannot sue for failure to reinvestigate (s2b), but furnishing inaccurate information (s2a)

2. Maybe she can sue under Rosenthal, but she stated that she filed for FCRA violations. If Rosenthal, then she would still have a hurdle to jump over in proving the OC knew, or should have known, that the information was inaccurate. An accounting error, should one be proven, is not likely to meet this requirement without clear supporting information provided by OP.

3. In the alternative, OP can sue for defamation of character, or various other common law tort theories, but you then have to prove gross negligence or willful malice.

4. I was wrong in referring to declarative relief instead of injunctive relief

5. Regarding the ability to seek injunctive relief, it's a mixed bag. I was referring to http://www.herecomesthejudge.com/data/Mangio_v._Equifax,_Inc.,_887_F.Supp._283_(S.D._Fla.,_1995).html in which the court explicitely determined to not have jurisdiction for determining questions of injunctive relief on FCRA matters. I later found a number of cases, including in the 9th circuit in which injunctive relief was provided. That not withstanding, the court is not going to provide injunctive relief before the accounting dispute is resolved or the OC is shown to have failed to provide a good faith attempt to resolve it.

6. The information provided thus far by the OP does not indicate any s2b violation by the OC. What the OP describes amounts to an accounting dispute and does not come close to meeting the requirements of successful litigation of s2b complaints. OP would be required to demonstrate that OC did not act in good faith to reinvestigate. The fact that reinvestigation took place must be undisputed, since OP states the results of the reinvestigate - we found your check and it was not for the complete balance. It follows that OP would be required to prove that the OC should have known that the balance was paid in full. To date, the only basis for this is that the OP knows balance was paid in full - no documentation to support that.

To me, the whole thing is silly - when accounting is in dispute, you clarify accounting before going to court:

1. Get a statement

2. Get bank records

3. Get terms and conditions

4. Compare

5. Attempt to resolve with OC if necessary

If that has not taken place, then I consider it next to impossible that Verizon doesn't get summary judgement.

Now, they may not want the hassle and may settle to avoid annoyance. I'm just saying that if the facts are truly on the side of the OP, why not establish those facts before litigation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not suing Verizon on the basis of an accounting error. I already told them I can't prove the payment was made. I am suing them for reporting violations. You cannot re-age an account. There are several FTC staff opinions on this very subject relating to charge-offs and time reporting periods.

Verizon knows this is illegal and that's why they said that if I can prove the reporting errors (by providing copies of my reports which I am NOT going to do since it's my evidence for court) they would delete it. They change the balance of the account and the tradeline every time I dispute it. I disputed three times and the first two times, they did not note the dispute on the TL... another violation and I have documented proof of it.

I have tried over and over again to resolve this issue with Verizon, including several letters and phone calls... and I've been talking with the executive relations person this whole week with no resolve yet. So it's not like I'm jumping the gun here. I have taken every step I can and they refuse to cooperate. They are reporting payments that were never made but can't provide me with proof of it. It's ridiculous.

I don't owe them any money... so they have nothing to lose. I think I have a strong case and I think they know that too. I really think that they'll settle it before court, but if they don't... we'll let the judge figure it out

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.. For more information, please see our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.