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Very Weird! Mysterious Paid Account!


gcmoore
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I owed $500 on an old Washington Mutual/Providian credit card(revolving account) that was charged of as a bad debt, closed in 2002, and paid in 2003I never paid this account! It is also listed as a "secured loan". What does this all mean? Why would it show as paid.

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Does it actually say "Balance $0"? If so, then maybe its for sale to a JDB. If it also says "Charge off / sold to another lender" then it has been sold.

As for the "secured" part...could be a mistake...its a computer to computer conversation, and they seldom speak the same language. It could also be that it got paid by them transferring the balance to another account you had without telling you.

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Does it actually say "Balance $0"? If so, then maybe its for sale to a JDB. If it also says "Charge off / sold to another lender" then it has been sold.

As for the "secured" part...could be a mistake...its a computer to computer conversation, and they seldom speak the same language. It could also be that it got paid by them transferring the balance to another account you had without telling you.

If this is the case, and it was paid and sold, if my report shows a $0 balance owed, what does that mean for me? I thought reports had to show full balance due so that consumers know what they owe.

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No, CRs are almost never for our benefit. They're for the folks that want to make money off you using their money.

The exact format does vary slightly from one CR to another, but, if the account has been sold, it would list a $0 balance, and include words like "Write off / sold to another lender" under status. On the other hand, if it says "Charge off" with a $0 balance, then the OC has taken a loss against income for tax purposes and may or may not sell it at some later date.

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No, CRs are almost never for our benefit. They're for the folks that want to make money off you using their money.

The exact format does vary slightly from one CR to another, but, if the account has been sold, it would list a $0 balance, and include words like "Write off / sold to another lender" under status. On the other hand, if it says "Charge off" with a $0 balance, then the OC has taken a loss against income for tax purposes and may or may not sell it at some later date.

Hey Willing, I've got a bill of sale from the collector. Is that proof enough they own the account and can make this agreement with me?

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Okay, I'm confused.

You said you had a WaMu account that showed a $0 balance. Where'd the collector come from?

No I had a providian credit card, but I think Wamu bought that company a few years ago. Now it shows as Wamu/providian with a $0 balance and says paid. Really weird. And I know that no one has paid any debts for me. I have two on my report like that. Tell me, do credit bureaus keep track of each report over the years, or if next year it shows I owe a balance, would there be any way to prove it previously said paid? I'm sure they won't take the copy of my report as proof.

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Well, I guess you could keep a copy of the old reports and if it ever shows up again, send a copy to the CRA with a WTH?

Problem is, I'd bet they'll just blame it on the OC...

Hi Willing, thanks for always responding so quickly. What could they blame on the OC?

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The CRA's maintain that all they do is report what they're told. If someone who reports to them screws up, its not their fault. The FCRA does say that they're required to make sure that everything they report is accurate, but they do get around that. The FCRA also allows for legitimate mistakes...so, if the OC someday comes back with a "whoops, you really owe us money", all they have to do is claim "processing error".

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The CRA's maintain that all they do is report what they're told. If someone who reports to them screws up, its not their fault. The FCRA does say that they're required to make sure that everything they report is accurate, but they do get around that. The FCRA also allows for legitimate mistakes...so, if the OC someday comes back with a "whoops, you really owe us money", all they have to do is claim "processing error".

I wonder if the creditors do this so people won't know how much they really owe, and then BAMB, the minute they come into any money or return to work, they hit em'.

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It is a possiblity. They will periodically pull your reports, and if they see any evidence you've got money, they'll be calling again.

(I've got a similiar problem with the IRS right now. Our past taxes are officially listed as "uncollectable", but if I get a better job, or my wife starts working, they'll be on us like ugly on an ape).

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It is a possiblity. They will periodically pull your reports, and if they see any evidence you've got money, they'll be calling again.

(I've got a similiar problem with the IRS right now. Our past taxes are officially listed as "uncollectable", but if I get a better job, or my wife starts working, they'll be on us like ugly on an ape).

Willing you probably missed this earlier, but I've got a bill of sale from the collector showing they bought the account for the OC. Is that proof enough they own the account and can make this agreement with me? They claim Beneficial/Household has no more rights to the debt because they purchased it.

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It is a possiblity. They will periodically pull your reports, and if they see any evidence you've got money, they'll be calling again.

(I've got a similiar problem with the IRS right now. Our past taxes are officially listed as "uncollectable", but if I get a better job, or my wife starts working, they'll be on us like ugly on an ape).

Gheese, makes you want to get a job that pays mostly by tips. That way they won't know your total income. But those have to be reported at income tax time, so.

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Gheese, makes you want to get a job that pays mostly by tips. That way they won't know your total income. But those have to be reported at income tax time, so.

Yep...real problem. When we lost our company, I not only had to find a job, but had to be real selective about it. I either had to make so much money that I could pay everything off...or not quite enough to live on so we wouldn't be socked with all the stuff we couldn't pay.

Okay...back to you...

So...you need to keep the terms straight so you'll know what your options are. If I understand correctly, you had an account with somebody (the OC) who's sold it to a junk debt buyer (JDB). And now, either the JDB or some collector (CA) is offering you a deal to pay it off. Right?

Hmmm...if its a CA, tell them to go pound sand and only deal with the owner of the debt. CA's can't legally bind the owner to anything...they'll claim they can, to get your money, but, it might not stick. Also, its my personal policy to never deal with a JDB. They've paid pennies on the dollar for the right to hassle you, and you never really owed them anything.

In either case...CA or JDB...a bill of sale is not enough. You want a complete accounting of what they say you owe, etc. They'll have to go back to the OC for that. The problem is, if you do hand them money, you want documentation that says its really your account.

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Yep...real problem. When we lost our company, I not only had to find a job, but had to be real selective about it. I either had to make so much money that I could pay everything off...or not quite enough to live on so we wouldn't be socked with all the stuff we couldn't pay.

Okay...back to you...

So...you need to keep the terms straight so you'll know what your options are. If I understand correctly, you had an account with somebody (the OC) who's sold it to a junk debt buyer (JDB). And now, either the JDB or some collector (CA) is offering you a deal to pay it off. Right?

Hmmm...if its a CA, tell them to go pound sand and only deal with the owner of the debt. CA's can't legally bind the owner to anything...they'll claim they can, to get your money, but, it might not stick. Also, its my personal policy to never deal with a JDB. They've paid pennies on the dollar for the right to hassle you, and you never really owed them anything.

In either case...CA or JDB...a bill of sale is not enough. You want a complete accounting of what they say you owe, etc. They'll have to go back to the OC for that. The problem is, if you do hand them money, you want documentation that says its really your account.

I have documention from them that it's my account. I asked for validation and was sent a copy of the contract which matched the one I have with signature. I called the OC and was told they sold the account to the collector, and I have bill of sale showing they did indeed by it. Still not enough?

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Alrighty then...looks like they got you. So, you're dealing with a JDB...and there might be a CA involved.

You have to decide then if you're willing to pay them. If you do, get everything in writng...you should be able to negotiate them down to like 20-30%...but make sure they agree to not report and to not resell the balance...all in writing.

If you're not willing to pay...look into the laws in your state regarding JDBs. Some states frown on the business...

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Alrighty then...looks like they got you. So, you're dealing with a JDB...and there might be a CA involved.

You have to decide then if you're willing to pay them. If you do, get everything in writng...you should be able to negotiate them down to like 20-30%...but make sure they agree to not report and to not resell the balance...all in writing.

If you're not willing to pay...look into the laws in your state regarding JDBs. Some states frown on the business...

Hey again, that still doesn't answer the question about the "bill of sale". I was told bill of sale means they own the account and a CA or OC is not involved. What exactly does a bill of sale prove or mean? I searched online and found nothing. I chatted with a lady the other day, who says she is making monthly payments to Hudson & Keyse from her checking account on their website and has not had any problems. She paid off one account with them two years ago, and is working on another one to be paid off in 4 years similar to me. I don't think I'll make payments on their website though.

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If the account was NOT delinquent when they bought it, then they've become the OC and the account is 100% legitimate. Pay them.

If the account was delinquent, they're a JDB. If they have a bill of sale showing they now own the account, and they have a contract with your signature on it, and they have supplied you with a complete accounting of what they say you owe, and you have a written agreement from them that paying will settle the account in full...pay them. If they haven't provided all of this, or, if your state frowns on JDB's...don't pay, and wait for their next step.

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If the account was NOT delinquent when they bought it, then they've become the OC and the account is 100% legitimate. Pay them.

If the account was delinquent, they're a JDB. If they have a bill of sale showing they now own the account, and they have a contract with your signature on it, and they have supplied you with a complete accounting of what they say you owe, and you have a written agreement from them that paying will settle the account in full...pay them. If they haven't provided all of this, or, if your state frowns on JDB's...don't pay, and wait for their next step.

Ok, I do have all the above. The account was delinquent a few years, they have bill of sale, copy of the original contract with signature, I don't have a complete accounting, but I know that I owe the amount I'll be paying off, and the letter doesn't say "in full" but it does say after my last payment the account will be satisfied and I won't owe anything further. I was told the next step would be court to get a judgement if I would prefer not to accept the agreement, and I was sent a letter with the name of the lawyer they work with in my state, so they are prepared to sue.

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