Zombie Debt

[Determined1]

Hi,

I read this article on MSN Money's website about "Zombie Debt:"

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ManageDebt/ZombieDebtIsHardToKill.aspx

I keep receiving Zombie Debt invoices on items 8, 9, and 10 years old, well past SOL.

I want to stay on top of them so they dont reappear on my credit report, and have been sending standard DV letters to date. Any thoughts on a "silver bullet" to knock them out for good, other than keeping a stack of DV's, envelopes and green cards on my desk?

[IHateCAs]

That's a zombie article.

[Determined1]

?

[Methuss]

You can include in the cease and desist letter (past SoL) that selling the debt to another party for value is a violation of the FDCPA by misrepresenting the legal status of the debt. If they try to, they are selling it as legitimately collectable. Once you invoke a C&D for being time-barred, selling it as legitimately collectable violates the provisions of the FDCPA barring misrepresentation and use of deceit to collect.

[Determined1]

Thanks Methuss! I've been using a DV for these matters. The C&D letters I've read seem rather brief by comparison. Any reason to use a C&D letter vs a DV here?

Here's the letter I've been using - please feel free to critique - especially as it applies to this purpose!

Collection Agency

123 Main Street

Anytown, USA

Re: xxxxxxxxx

Sent via USPS Certified Mail Article Tracking Number:

February 12, 2007

To whom it may concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to your letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxx

and received by me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 ( that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, or an unsubstantiated demand for payment, but a request for legal VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:

*What the money you say I owe is specifically for.

*Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe.

*Validation that the alleged debt was established, including any signed application for credit, service or goods.

*Provide me with copies of any documents that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe.

*Formal Certification that the alleged debt was transferred to a third party.

*Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account.

*Identify the full name of the alleged original creditor.

*Provide a verification or copy of any judgment.

*Provide documentation regarding your company’s compliance, including applicable bond, regarding debt collection laws in my state.

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureaus (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against your company for the following:

*Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

*Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

*Defamation of Character

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in this Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will further consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, any and all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Sincerely,

John Doe

[sr28b]

..Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay.

Why would you say that if it's a time barred debt and is past reporting limits?

..selling the debt to another party for value is a violation of the FDCPA by misrepresenting the legal status of the debt. If they try to, they are selling it as legitimately collectable. Once you invoke a C&D for being time-barred, selling it as legitimately collectable violates the provisions of the FDCPA barring misrepresentation and use of deceit to collect.

Methuss you rock!

By chance is there any case law to go with that?

[Determined1]

I agree sr28b - I just copied my ususal DV here and realize that part would be improper for this purpose. Any other thoughts to create a "silver bullet" against zombie debt collectors?

Thanks for the feedback!

[Methuss]

It's simple. All you have to say is the debt is time-barred by statute; to cease and desist contact; and that selling, assigning, or otherwise transferring the "paper" to another party would be a misrepresentation of the legal status of the debt henceforth. Violations will result in suit for damages.

There is some caselaw on it, but you should not be quoting cases at that stage. If they don't know their responsibilities under the law, then let them dig their own hole deeper...it just makes it easier to prove willful non-compliance.

[divemedic]

I have become against these long, drawn out, unneccisarily complicated form letters for DV. All this does is mark you as having gone to an internet site to learn credit repair. Why not try a normal letter? It accomplishes the same legal goal, and I think works better.

Try something like:

I am writing this to you in reference to a pair of letters I received from your company this morning. In these letters (dated October 27, 2006), you offered to settle a pair of debts that you claim I owe to Orlando Regional Healthcare. I appreciate the kind offer of a 25% discount, and see that you are most kind in being willing to accept less than what you feel you are owed, but I am afraid that you may be mistaken and are collecting from the worng person.

I do not recall being seen for medical issues at any of Orlando Regional Healthcare’s locations. I feel that you may have gotten me confused with another person's account. I am forced to dispute this claim. I would appreciate it if you could look into this matter and forward to me any documentation that you may have, along with the date of service, etc.

Still a valid DV, with the added benefit that the CA may say something stupid, not realizing that they are going to be ambushed.

[IHateCAs]

?

I dunno when that article was first written but... every couple months someone starts a thread on that article like its something new... hence the zombie article.

[Determined1]

Thanks to all, I appreciate the great input and letter options.

I agree my DV is a bit much for a past SOL debt, but it has worked wonders for everything else with CA's. Now I was looking for something more succinct for a "zombie debt"...

Let's keep the ball rolling for more ideas and other successful letters...