SecretAgentWoman Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I've been reading, and some people around here practically have an orgasm when they get a "prime" card. Now I know that better rates, customer service and perks are nice, but around here improving our credit score is the primary goal.I've searched, and have not found the answer to this question - when it comes to credit scoring, if you have a sub-prime card and a prime card with the same credit limit, payment history, etc, are they scored differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I hate EXP Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 To me there is no real differance other than paying less interest and in most cases no annual fee and possibly some kind of reward. The way to actually use a card if you do is to freeload. Either way unless you freeload you end up paying extra prime , subprime or not. My first card to recovery was Orchard bank , which is subprime , but it reported to the CRA just like everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 They're not scored differently, but they look bad on your reports when manually reviewed. Even if you've managed to dispute away your baddies, the presence of a lot of subprime cards on your reports makes it obvious to lenders that you have been in credit trouble. That could be the difference between approval and denial to some lenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggajoe Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 They're not scored differently, but they look bad on your reports when manually reviewed. Even if you've managed to dispute away your baddies, the presence of a lot of subprime cards on your reports makes it obvious to lenders that you have been in credit trouble. That could be the difference between approval and denial to some lenders.How soon should one start closing(if at all) subprime lenders from report?I have 3 subprimes and 1 prime.How do you know if a lender is prime or subprime:?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretAgentWoman Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 In addition to Jigga's question - I have another.Um, even if you close them, can't a potential lender manually reading your report clearly see the history of sub-prime accounts? So what's the point of closing them? It's not like that magically hides the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Many people (including myself) advocate getting only one, MAYBE two subprime cards when you're rebuilding or starting out... and staying away from the real predatory ones like First Premier, which SCREAM "no one else would give me credit!!" even if that's not the case.As for closing cards, for the most part you should only close a card when you've built up several years of comparable or greater history on other, better accounts, and doing so won't destroy your utilization. If not, only close a card if it's got an annual fee and/or high rate that you have not been able to negotiate down. Once you've got a good five years of history (rough estimate) under your belt, it's fine to start closing low-limit subprime accounts (which for the record are usually high-rate, high-fee, low limit cards from predatory lenders).Prime cards are pretty much: Chase, Citi, AmEx, Discover, Bank of America/MBNA. Some little known cards such as Pulaski, and I believe now Wachovia are considered prime, and keep in mind that even Capital One has prime offerings. Juniper/Barclays had two "super-prime" cards at 6.9% fixed and 7.9% fixed, but they recently vanished (I snagged them both first, though... heh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jq26 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 An alternative view: its the fees and high rates that you want to avoid not necessarily the subprime name. You want a card you can grow with and not want to dump as soon as your credit improves. I just can't see a lender's credit decision turning on whether a tradeline says AmEx or Orchard. Assuming both lines have the same limit and same payment history, I think all things are equal from their standpoint. But if you are payng $60 to Orchard per year in fees, then its advantageous to get the AmEx as early as possible to avoid the fees and also to establish a long-term tradeline as early as possible.Juniper/Barclays had two "super-prime" cards at 6.9% fixed and 7.9% fixed, but they recently vanished (I snagged them both first, though... heh)I snagged a 9.9% fixed Juniper platinum card and a Providian/WaMu platinum card shortly after BK7. I was squarely in the subprime market at that time, so I assume these cards are subprime. Or maybe not. What about Credit Union cards with rebates and high limits? Are they subprime or prime? Its hard to tell...As a general rule, dump the garbage cards as soon as you can get yourself into cards with terms that you can live with long-term- the age of your tradeline has an effect on your score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 An alternative view: its the fees and high rates that you want to avoid not necessarily the subprime name. You want a card you can grow with and not want to dump as soon as your credit improves. I just can't see a lender's credit decision turning on whether a tradeline says AmEx or Orchard. Assuming both lines have the same limit and same payment history, I think all things are equal from their standpoint. But if you are payng $60 to Orchard per year in fees, then its advantageous to get the AmEx as early as possible to avoid the fees and also to establish a long-term tradeline as early as possible.I snagged a 9.9% fixed Juniper platinum card and a Providian/WaMu platinum card shortly after BK7. I was squarely in the subprime market at that time, so I assume these cards are subprime. Or maybe not. What about Credit Union cards with rebates and high limits? Are they subprime or prime? Its hard to tell...As a general rule, dump the garbage cards as soon as you can get yourself into cards with terms that you can live with long-term- the age of your tradeline has an effect on your score.Maybe you can't see it, but it's true. If you apply for Discover and they see nothing but Orchard and First Premier etc. on your report, that underwriter--who's not making decisions on score alone, but your entire picture--is going to pass. With some cards, it's not so much the issuer, but the card, that's prime or subprime. Even Crap One has cards that are only available to those with excellent credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggajoe Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 With some cards, it's not so much the issuer, but the card, that's prime or subprime. Are you saying that creditors can also see the TYPE of card?My Orchard does not SEEM to report Secured status... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jq26 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I know you know your stuff when it comes to cards, but then that leads to me to ask a few follow-ups. Don't mind me if I pick your brain for a minute or two:Are they still doing manual reviews? Even mortgage apps are perforemd with desktop underwriting. My understanding is that you are either creditworthy or you are not. And if you are not and you get rejected, then in some cases, you can get a manual review for reconsideration. "With some cards, it's not so much the issuer, but the card, that's prime or subprime. Even Crap One has cards that are only available to those with excellent credit."How does the underwriter know then? I have a CapOne platinum card with $2000 limit and free balance transfers. Since the lender doesn't see interest rate or terms, then how do they know if its a decent card or not since they only see "Capitol One"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Are you saying that creditors can also see the TYPE of card?My Orchard does not SEEM to report Secured status...I don't know HOW you made that leap... but since you asked, yes, some secured cards do report as secured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggajoe Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I don't know HOW you made that leap... but since you asked, yes, some secured cards do report as secured.So does Orchard report secured? (I thought not) I made that leap because you mentioned, sometimes it's not the lender but the card that is Prime or Not...how would a creditor tell the difference between a Prime Capitol One card and a SubPrime card for the same creditor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 So does Orchard report secured? (I thought not) I made that leap because you mentioned, sometimes it's not the lender but the card that is Prime or Not...how would a creditor tell the difference between a Prime Capitol One card and a SubPrime card for the same creditor?I've never had an Orchard card, so you'd have to search for that info.They can't tell the difference with Capital One. I was only using that as an interesting tidbit in the prime/subprime scenario. I wasn't connecting it to the "can anyone tell" part of the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I know you know your stuff when it comes to cards, but then that leads to me to ask a few follow-ups. Don't mind me if I pick your brain for a minute or two:Are they still doing manual reviews? Even mortgage apps are perforemd with desktop underwriting. My understanding is that you are either creditworthy or you are not. And if you are not and you get rejected, then in some cases, you can get a manual review for reconsideration. "With some cards, it's not so much the issuer, but the card, that's prime or subprime. Even Crap One has cards that are only available to those with excellent credit."How does the underwriter know then? I have a CapOne platinum card with $2000 limit and free balance transfers. Since the lender doesn't see interest rate or terms, then how do they know if its a decent card or not since they only see "Capitol One"?Oh yes, they definitely still do manual reviews. Apply for something like Discover, and a human being will look over your report, then probably call you to verify certain things on it. You could have an 800 score, and you won't get an instant approval. If anyone has, I have yet to see it. (Anyone? Bueller?)As for the Cap One question, see my previous answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter97 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I just did the "what card could you get" soft pull on HSBC and it came back for the first time with an Discover card from Direct Merchant Bank. This is what it said: The Direct Rewards Platinum Discover Network Card offers an excellent way to earn points for everyday purchases.0% Intro APR on purchases and Balance Transfers for 5 months* 24/7 Online Account Management $0 Fraud Liability No Annual Fee * See Terms and Conditions for complete details.So if I had applied for this card I wouldn't have gotten an instant approval? Humm.. has anyone tried this card before? I assume it's prime Discover is right? I might just try again after the closing of my house in a couple of weeks to see what happens.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNY Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I just did the "what card could you get" soft pull on HSBC and it came back for the first time with an Discover card from Direct Merchant Bank. This is what it said: The Direct Rewards Platinum Discover Network Card offers an excellent way to earn points for everyday purchases.0% Intro APR on purchases and Balance Transfers for 5 months* 24/7 Online Account Management $0 Fraud Liability No Annual Fee * See Terms and Conditions for complete details.So if I had applied for this card I wouldn't have gotten an instant approval? Humm.. has anyone tried this card before? I assume it's prime Discover is right? I might just try again after the closing of my house in a couple of weeks to see what happens.. No, it's not a prime Discover, it's a licensed card (like the Wal-Mart Discover or the Dillard's AmEx) and only uses the Discover name, logo and payment network. Discover proper is underwritten by Morgan Stanley, and is a fairly difficult card to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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