Found this letter on Edcombs.com site...does this really have some teeth to it?

[IngridA]

Your name

Your address

Debt collectors name

Debt collectors address

[We suggest you fax or send by certified or

overnight mail so that you have a record

of RECEIPT by the debt collector]

Re: [account number]

Ladies/ Gentlemen:

Please be advised that we dispute the claimed debt(s) described above.

Please provide any contract or agreement we signed and an account history showing how you arrived at the conclusion that we owe the amounts claimed and when this alleged debt(s) was charged off.

Furthermore, you are hereby requested, as required by the Uniform Commercial Code, to provide copies of assignments and other documents showing that you or your principal is in fact the assignee of the debt(s) described above and that you are legally authorized to attempt to collect the claimed debt(s) from us.

Unless and until such proof is furnished, we do not recognize any right on your part to attempt to collect any amount from us through any means whatever, including credit reporting. We refuse to pay any debt which has not been substantiated in the manner we request and direct you to cease further communications unless and until you can provide such substantiation.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

[sign]

Hmm.......

[willingtocope]

Its as good as any I've seen. Reference to the UCC is a nice touch.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much clout it would actually carry, but, if your intent was to DV along with a C&D...then this does that quite well.

[IHateCAs]

Borderline refusal to pay/cease comm. letter which leaves the CA with no alternative...

[IHateCAs]

Take out the last paragraph and it's a fine DV. There is no magic bullet DV letter though.

[IngridA]

Thanks for the replies!

What caught my eye was the mention of the UCC....specifically Article 9 apparently has something to do with JDBs, according to their site....

[montanatim]

I went to look up UCC article 9 and it was very interesting.

UCC 9-406c says basically; (layman's terms) a JDB has to prove chain of custody on the debt or you are under no obligation to pay them. They must send this proof to you the account debtor. In a seasonable time it says. It goes on to say that if the JDB fails proof, the account debtor is still obligated to the assignor for the debt.

anyone out there in computer land read it the same way I do?

[mcb11902]

Article 9 of the UCC refers to secured transactions; credit cards are not secured. A secured transaction is your house or your car.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

Article 9 of the UCC refers to secured transactions; credit cards are not secured. A secured transaction is your house or your car.

so do I understand that UCC does not apply to any unsecured debt? I am a little confused about this term.. I was looking up the SOL for delaware and it said three years but for years for goods under UCC.. I tried to find info but can't figure out what this actually means

[someonesomewhere]

Like willingtocope and IHateCAs suggested, pull out the C&D references, and just stick to DV. JDBs and CAs have a very limited capacity to think critically. If you flood their brains with too many things at once, they get confused. They could read it as a C&D and then claim you never asked for validation.

I keep my DVs short and to the point.

I recently pulled a copy of my credit report, and I noticed Bank XXXXX is reporting that I owe you a debt. In accordance with my rights under the FDCPA, I request that you validate this debt.

I also avoid words with more than three syllables in a DV letter.

substantiated - 5 syllables

communications - 5 syllables

substantiation - 5 syllables

It's worked twice for me.

[mcb11902]

Article 9 of the UCC deals with secured transactions. The other articles deal with letters of credit, bulk sales, bank deposits, negotiable instruments, etc. Cornell Law School has it on their website; it's guaranteed to put you to sleep if you are not tired on any given night, Carolina.

A secured transaction means that the creditor loans you money for a certain item, like a car or a house, and they have a security interest in the property. So if you default, they can seize the property and apply the proceeds from the sale to the outstanding money that is owed them.

Credit cards are unsecured because you're borrowing money at different times and the creditor doesn't know what you've necessarily purchased. You come into my store and give me your credit card to purchase a doll, a diecast car and some oils and incense. I just process the transaction for the full amount. I have a record of what was purchased, but the only thing that is transmitted through the credit card terminal to the bank and eventually back to the credit card company for the purchaser is the full dollar amount of the sale. The credit card company doesn't acquire a security interest in the doll that person purchased.

Montanatim: This is the text from 9-406©:

Subject to subsection (h), if requested by the account debtor, an assignee shall seasonably furnish reasonable proof that the assignment has been made. Unless the assignee complies, the account debtor may discharge its obligation by paying the assignor, even if the account debtor has received a notification under subsection (a).

But again, you're dealing with a secured transaction in the UCC, not an unsecured transaction like a credit card. For example: You own a business and purchase a building for your business. The mortgage is with XYZ. A year or so late, XYZ decides they don't want to hold the mortgage any longer so they assign the mortgage to ABC. ABC doesn't notify you that they now hold the mortgage on your building until they send you the new coupon book. You say WTF, who is ABC; I've been paying my mortgage to XYZ all this time. Who are these new people. So you write ABC a letter asking what's going on, but in the meantime, you have a mortgage payment due. So you pay XYZ which is perfectly legal to you until section a is complied with. Section a states:

Subject to subsections ( through (i), an account debtor on an account, chattel paper, or a payment intangible may discharge its obligation by paying the assignor until, but not after, the account debtor receives a notification, authenticated by the assignor or the assignee, that the amount due or to become due has been assigned and that payment is to be made to the assignee. After receipt of the notification, the account debtor may discharge its obligation by paying the assignee and may not discharge the obligation by paying the assignor.

The UCC was set up to deal with how businesses conduct business between and among themselves; it was not set up to deal with consumer transactions. I believe the majority of states have adopted the UCC and codified it into their own state laws (a few have tweaked certain articles). Section h goes on to say:

This section is subject to law other than this article which establishes a different rule for an account debtor who is an individual and who incurred the obligation primarily for personal, family, or household purposes.

Your state may have a separate law for dealing with consumer transactions. I know in Florida we have a separate law that states:

559.715 Assignment of consumer debts.--This part does not prohibit the assignment, by a creditor, of the right to bill and collect a consumer debt. However, the assignee must give the debtor written notice of such assignment within 30 days after the assignment. The assignee is a real party in interest and may bring an action in a court of competent jurisdiction to collect a debt that has been assigned to such assignee and is in default.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

Article 9 of the UCC deals with secured transactions. The other articles deal with letters of credit, bulk sales, bank deposits, negotiable instruments, etc. Cornell Law School has it on their website; it's guaranteed to put you to sleep if you are not tired on any given night, Carolina.

A secured transaction means that the creditor loans you money for a certain item, like a car or a house, and they have a security interest in the property. So if you default, they can seize the property and apply the proceeds from the sale to the outstanding money that is owed them.

Credit cards are unsecured because you're borrowing money at different times and the creditor doesn't know what you've necessarily purchased. You come into my store and give me your credit card to purchase a doll, a diecast car and some oils and incense. I just process the transaction for the full amount. I have a record of what was purchased, but the only thing that is transmitted through the credit card terminal to the bank and eventually back to the credit card company for the purchaser is the full dollar amount of the sale. The credit card company doesn't acquire a security interest in the doll that person purchased.

Montanatim: This is the text from 9-406©:

Subject to subsection (h), if requested by the account debtor, an assignee shall seasonably furnish reasonable proof that the assignment has been made. Unless the assignee complies, the account debtor may discharge its obligation by paying the assignor, even if the account debtor has received a notification under subsection (a).

But again, you're dealing with a secured transaction in the UCC, not an unsecured transaction like a credit card. For example: You own a business and purchase a building for your business. The mortgage is with XYZ. A year or so late, XYZ decides they don't want to hold the mortgage any longer so they assign the mortgage to ABC. ABC doesn't notify you that they now hold the mortgage on your building until they send you the new coupon book. You say WTF, who is ABC; I've been paying my mortgage to XYZ all this time. Who are these new people. So you write ABC a letter asking what's going on, but in the meantime, you have a mortgage payment due. So you pay XYZ which is perfectly legal to you until section a is complied with. Section a states:

Subject to subsections ( through (i), an account debtor on an account, chattel paper, or a payment intangible may discharge its obligation by paying the assignor until, but not after, the account debtor receives a notification, authenticated by the assignor or the assignee, that the amount due or to become due has been assigned and that payment is to be made to the assignee. After receipt of the notification, the account debtor may discharge its obligation by paying the assignee and may not discharge the obligation by paying the assignor.

The UCC was set up to deal with how businesses conduct business between and among themselves; it was not set up to deal with consumer transactions. I believe the majority of states have adopted the UCC and codified it into their own state laws (a few have tweaked certain articles). Section h goes on to say:

This section is subject to law other than this article which establishes a different rule for an account debtor who is an individual and who incurred the obligation primarily for personal, family, or household purposes.

Your state may have a separate law for dealing with consumer transactions. I know in Florida we have a separate law that states:

559.715 Assignment of consumer debts.--This part does not prohibit the assignment, by a creditor, of the right to bill and collect a consumer debt. However, the assignee must give the debtor written notice of such assignment within 30 days after the assignment. The assignee is a real party in interest and may bring an action in a court of competent jurisdiction to collect a debt that has been assigned to such assignee and is in default.

LOL I read it last night until my head fell off.. you are not kidding that is some serious reading.. I did notice though that in 1990 there were changes to address the credit card situation in delaware something to the affect of the large number of cards that go through there.

It got my attention because I was looking up the SOL for Delaware and it said three years and accounts under UCC goods were four.. I was not sure what that meant but from what I could gather it appears to be more for a business venture then unsecured consumer credit card debt.

thanks for the great response

[pinkeysas]

SomeoneSomewhere.......... I see you say to keep DV letters simple and i understand that. But if I have found discrepencies between waht the BIG 3 are reporting on the same Collection account should i make note of that im my DV to the CRA's?

I have 4 items i am planing to DV and the one i am starting with is the one that is being reported on all 3 of my CR's. (the others only show up on one or two of them).

So first things first.

I compared the listing of this collections account on all 3 or my CR's to see if they are all reporting the same info. Heres what i found..........

Experian - Midland Credit Mgmt.

Amount -$134

Date Opened - 12/2005

Reported Since - 7/2002

Equifax - Midland Credit Mgmt.

Amount - $134

Date Opened - n/a

Date Reported - 12/2006

TransU - Midland Credit Mgmt.

Amount - $135

Date Updated - 2/2007

Date placed for collections - 12/2005

I dont know if any of this counts as a violation or somthing, and if so should i make mention of it when i DV?

Thanks for any help

[someonesomewhere]

I would not mention it in the DV. They might then simple go update all three TLs with the CRAs to ensure they are the same. Don't do it because it helps them.

It also clouds the issue. Stay on message, and the message is DV at the moment.

Make a note of it and keep paper copies of your CRs. Don't even tell them which CRA's report you reviewed. Perhaps they're only updating TU since that one appears to have the most recent activity. If so, then there's an increased chance they will update something on TU, but not touch either EX or EQ and perhaps you catch 'em in more violations.

Don't know whether a judge would care about a $1 difference between amounts owed. If they had $134.59 in their files as owed, then perhaps one CRA rounds up, another rounds down, and it won't count as a violation.

Regardless of whether it's 1 or 4 TLs with CAs, and no matter to which CRAs the CA is reporting, you want to DV them all. Just follow Kristi's flowchart.

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228576