Do NOT pay a JDB (this needs to be a sticky)

[pulpfiction]

I've seen too many threads here about people settling with JDB's. We really need a sticky about not paying a JDB.

For anyone new to the credit repair game...

If you see an entry on your credit report like LVNV, Asset Acceptance, Unifund, Porfolio Recovery, etc...your account has been purchased by a JDB (Junk Debt Buyer).

This company purchased your account for anywhere from one to three cents on the dollar from the original creditor. So, let's say you have a $1000 debt. The JDB purchased your account for $10-30, and is probably seeking to collect something in the range of $1100-1400 after calculating interest and other BS fees. Not a bad profit if they collect, eh?

The problem for the JDB is this: they are purchasing only your information, NOT the original creditor's records. In all likelihood, the JDB has your name, address and social security number. What they don't have are statements proving that the alleged debt is, indeed, yours.

If you recieve a letter from one of these JDB companies, you need to send them a debt validation (DV) letter as soon as possible (30 days, to be precise). Many people go overboard with these letters and include all sorts of requirements that the law does not require. Here's a sample:

Dear Scumbag Bottom Feeder:

I am in reciept of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx. I dispute this debt. It is inconvenient for you to contact me at any time via phone.

Send this letter via certified mail return reciept. Keep the reciepts.

Once youve sent the DV letter, dispute any entries the JDB may have made on your credit reports. If the JDB entry stays without having provided proof that this account is yours, they have violated federal law. You can sue them, for this...and they will be paying YOU. Check out www.naca.net for a good consumer attorney in your area.

Concerned that the JDB is going to sue you? Fair enough; many of them do sue. They are betting that you wont show up, so that they'll get an easy default judgement. By all means: SHOW UP and ANSWER THE COMPLAINT! Odds are, they'll drop it immediately and move on to someone else (seems to be the strategy of all of them except Unifund) . If they don't...99 times out of 100, any evidence they have will be heresay (an 'affidavit' by the JDB stating that, yup, you owe it). Any NACA attorney will make this problem go away pronto.

Perhaps you feel guilty about your debt. It really is your debt, and you want to make the situation right. Understandable. Hower, the original creditor is no longer in the picture (they got a tax break by writing off your bad debt, and took whatever money the JDB paid for your account). Therefore, any financial 'harm' that you may or may not have caused cannot be undone. The only one that stands to come out ahead now is the JDB. So, stop feeling bad about the debt and instead feel outraged that a company of vultures is seeking to make a 20,000% profit at the expense of people who are unaware of their legal rights.

Bottom line is.....NEVER PAY A JDB. After reading these boards for awhile..they will be the ones paying you.

[SecretAgentWoman]

JDBs are the scum of the earth, and the bane of my CR.

It seems the only alternative is to sit and take the hit on the CR (pay or no pay), because you can't use DV to make them go away or sue them.

[luv2bhappy]

In the event that a DV letter is answered to the satisfaction of the FDCPA and the debt is w/i SOL...then what? I agree with you, but I think there are some instances where paying is unavoidable. Avoiding such could be digging a deeper hole. Making a blanket statement, "never pay a JDB", might not be so helpful to some people. JMHO.

[thegame26]

Looks like I am be the minority. I disputed an LVNV listing on my credit report, expecting to win-out. So far they've been able to produce account statements for the last 11 months the account was open (account was open for 5 years), and the orginal application I had with the orginal creditor. They claim to be in the process of obtaining the entire account history. I guess I can hold out hope they won't be able to get that and/or they forget to get a signed argeement with the orginal creditor authorizing the selling of the account.

[pulpfiction]

SecretagentWoman:

You can absolutely get rid of a JDB tradeline. Here are the steps:

1. DV the JDB

2. Dispute with CRA's

3. Wait for JDB to verify with CRA's without validating

4. ITS JDB (send it to one of their higher up's..compliance officer, general counsel, ceo, etc.) In all likelihood, JDB deletes in order to avoid being sued

5. If not, either spend a couple of months absorbing every piece of info on this board, or get an NACA.net attorney to sue them for you

6 Collect your $1000 for FDCPA violations, and watch the JDB tradeline magically disappear from your CR.

[SecretAgentWoman]

Ah, but like thegame26, my JDBs whipped out verification so fast you just knew they were waiting for you to ask.

They're onto us.

[pulpfiction]

What kind of verification? Any sort of verification that does not originate with the OC is heresay (in addition to an FDCPA violation).

99% of the time, the JDB cannot provide this...they wouldnt be getting paper at 2 or 3 cents on the dollar otherwise.

[SecretAgentWoman]

LVNV provided a copy of my original signed car purchase contract, and A$$et Accp. provided an account "statement" on AAC letterhead of the amount due.

I was told on this very board that it's not weak enough to sue.

[pulpfiction]

Okay, perhaps I made too blanket of a statement.

Not familiar with car purchase contracts....perhaps validation is more standard with them.

However, surely they are reporting inaccurately. Factoring company? Re-aging? Open account? Past due account? These are all FCRA violations...and actionable at $1k per violation. Sue them, and settle for deletion.

There are exceptions...but I stand by my original claim!

[Recovering Attorney]

hearsay has nothing to do with DV.

[thegame26]

Okay, perhaps I made too blanket of a statement.

However, surely they are reporting inaccurately. Factoring company? Re-aging? Open account? Past due account? These are all FCRA violations...and actionable at $1k per violation. Sue them, and settle for deletion.

There are exceptions...but I stand by my original claim!

They haven't re-aged it yet, everything appears to accurate. It is listed as 'factoring company', but considering they have validation and the amount is in excess of $1k its not worth sueing over b/c they'd just turn around and counter-sue.

[NeedRelief]

I've seen too many threads here about people settling with JDB's. We really need a sticky about not paying a JDB.

For anyone new to the credit repair game...

If you see an entry on your credit report like LVNV, Asset Acceptance, Unifund, Porfolio Recovery, etc...your account has been purchased by a JDB (Junk Debt Buyer).

This company purchased your account for anywhere from one to three cents on the dollar from the original creditor. So, let's say you have a $1000 debt. The JDB purchased your account for $10-30, and is probably seeking to collect something in the range of $1100-1400 after calculating interest and other BS fees. Not a bad profit if they collect, eh?

The problem for the JDB is this: they are purchasing only your information, NOT the original creditor's records. In all likelihood, the JDB has your name, address and social security number. What they don't have are statements proving that the alleged debt is, indeed, yours.

If you recieve a letter from one of these JDB companies, you need to send them a debt validation (DV) letter as soon as possible (30 days, to be precise). Many people go overboard with these letters and include all sorts of requirements that the law does not require. Here's a sample:

Dear Scumbag Bottom Feeder:

I am in reciept of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx. I dispute this debt. It is inconvenient for you to contact me at any time via phone.

Send this letter via certified mail return reciept. Keep the reciepts.

Once youve sent the DV letter, dispute any entries the JDB may have made on your credit reports. If the JDB entry stays without having provided proof that this account is yours, they have violated federal law. You can sue them, for this...and they will be paying YOU. Check out www.naca.net for a good consumer attorney in your area.

Concerned that the JDB is going to sue you? Fair enough; many of them do sue. They are betting that you wont show up, so that they'll get an easy default judgement. By all means: SHOW UP and ANSWER THE COMPLAINT! Odds are, they'll drop it immediately and move on to someone else (seems to be the strategy of all of them except Unifund) . If they don't...99 times out of 100, any evidence they have will be heresay (an 'affidavit' by the JDB stating that, yup, you owe it). Any NACA attorney will make this problem go away pronto.

Perhaps you feel guilty about your debt. It really is your debt, and you want to make the situation right. Understandable. Hower, the original creditor is no longer in the picture (they got a tax break by writing off your bad debt, and took whatever money the JDB paid for your account). Therefore, any financial 'harm' that you may or may not have caused cannot be undone. The only one that stands to come out ahead now is the JDB. So, stop feeling bad about the debt and instead feel outraged that a company of vultures is seeking to make a 20,000% profit at the expense of people who are unaware of their legal rights.

Bottom line is.....NEVER PAY A JDB. After reading these boards for awhile..they will be the ones paying you.

This is not completely accurate. I tried to play this game, and the JDB provided EVERYTHING...and I mean EVERYTHING. The original loan papers I signed, monthly payments I made, etc. Can you believe, they even had the cease and desist letter I sent to the original creditor FOUR YEARS AGO?????? Also, the debt they purchased for me had an arbitration agreement, which would have made it easier for them to collect. By the way, this was on a six year old debt that had a written contract SOL of 10 years.

A friend of mine tried "not paying" because of advice she read on some guys website called budhibbs, and she ended up going to court, and this so called BOTTOM FEEDER won a judgment for $18,000. Which is $10,000 more than the SETTLEMENT they offered her without added interest. Mind you, she had a lawyer. These bottom feeders, as we call them, had everything they needed.

So I'd be careful. Also, that budhibbs guy has a lot of wrong information on his site, but unless you're a lawyer or familiar with all the collection laws, you won't find out until it's too late. There must be some reputable reason for paying these people off, as there are far MORE people who do, than don't. And if there were NO REASON at all to do so, they could not LEGALLY be in business. I think it depends on the individual situation. Stating CATEGORICALLY what someone should NOT pay these people could cost you money, or assets(like my friend). She nearly had a nervous breakdown when they took items from her home, and started inquiring about the condo she owned.

I hate, hate, hate to admit this, but I suppose what they do, is no worse than those of us who get large lines of credit, and then not have to pay it back because of bankruptcy and SOL laws. Many people fall on bad luck(illness, divorce, etc), but a large percentage simply live above their means, get in over their head, and choose to file bankruptcy. That's free money. So either side could call the other a bottom feeder. I just want to clean up my credit or get rid of it LEGALLY, doesn't matter to me what I'm called in the process, and I don't see this as a Just as I'm sure these JDB's don't care who call them scum or bottom feeders. Be careful.

[myscoresawful]

(seems to be the strategy of all of them except Unifund) .

Unifund is the only one mentioned that shows up on my credit report. How are they different and how should I deal with them?

I haven't done anything yet, since they are only reporting and not harrassing me...maybe they just don't know how to get in touch with me.

[thegame26]

.

Also, that budhibbs guy has a lot of wrong information on his site, but unless you're a lawyer or familiar with all the collection laws, you won't find out until it's too late. QUOTE]

Such as? I've generally found him to fairly accurate/reliable.

[Big Time]

For the last few years, JDB's couldn't validate because they were too cheap to buy the old records from the OC. That seems to be changing.

This is why you have to counter-sue and challenge the JDB's right to collect.

These threads are long, but taking the time to read them all will really help you grasp what is going on. They are somewhat controversial, which is why you need to read the entire threads and all the links contained in them.

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132612

http://debtorboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0

http://debtorboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=4.0

[Worried]

How can we tell if they are a JDB?

[Big Time]

If they bought your debt, instead of are just collecting it for an OC.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

bud is very accurate so I am not sure what your friends situation was... also an FYI on unifund they NEVER send a dunning letter or call.. they just show up with a summons.. no warning.. it is the way they operate.

and one other thing as far as them not being any different I disagree.. they are bottom feeders.. if an OC wants to go after a debt they have that right.. they invested the intial funds.. many of these that buy the debt have NO financial interest except the few cents on the dollar for bulk purchases. its pure profit for them.. so in my book it makes them predators.. period

[Big Time]

so in my book it makes them predators.. period

^ WOOT!

Buying debt, of all things, isn't even a legitimate business. A debt is a negative.

JDB's argue that they are just buying low and selling high, but selling what?

[anstl]

I just found out that I am being sued by Midland Credit Mgt, although I have never been served. If I did not know how to look up lawsuits in my city, I would have never known that I am due in court in two weeks.

Since they have already filed suit against me, should I still file a request for a Debt Validation, or is it too late?

Thanks for all the good info!

[astiman]

Need Relief, your friend must be on serious reality-altering substances, or has the worst lawyer in the world.

Bud Hibbs is HIGHLY accurate, and for that matter, when I lived in your state ("Illinois") years ago, I EASILY beat a JDB that sued me for well over $13K.

JDBs do NOT verify, they do NOT validate. They are usually NOT 'factoring companies.'

Folks, if you want to pay money to people you don't owe it to, then pay the JDB. If not, and you DON'T have an extra $14K to give away, fight them with every tool at your disposal, and do NOt let them get default judgements.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Do you think we could stop resurrecting the dead here?

[astiman]

Resurrecting the dead?

Wot?

[debtorshusband]

Resurrecting the dead?

Wot?

What he means, is, you are better off beginning your own thread, rather than adding a new post to a thread that is a year old, i.e., "resurrecting the dead."

DH

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

What he means, is, you are better off beginning your own thread, rather than adding a new post to a thread that is a year old, i.e., "resurrecting the dead."

DH

Actually; it's just a week or so shy of being two years old but who's counting.