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Certified Mail Return Receipt


akins503
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CMRRR is not for them, it's for you. If you were ever in a court of law you would need proof you mailed (and they received) your dispute. This way no CA can say they didn't receive it. To be honest with you, most of the stuff I've sent in the past was not CMRRR. Today it is.

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Edited by kevin3344
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I have a quick question about Cert Mail. Why is it that the CA's do not have to have proof you received communications from them. All Correspondence you send should be sent Cert Mail Ret Rec. This doesn't seem right to me.

If I had to guess I's say it goes back to old contract common law and a variation of the mailbox rule. Even now, with things like documentation from government agencies and the like, if something is mailed, it is presumed delivered. The Social Security Administration for example, allows 5 days from mailing when counting date of receipt of notices like denial of disability, etc.

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All they have to prove is that they have a "system' in place to

send out notices.

but

Why not send your Letter to the CA or OC

using UPS 3 day…

you can try CMRRR

but

more and more CAs don’t accept CMRRR

and flat out refuse to sign them.

You need that signed confirmation of delivery

and a way to track that it was actually received

which UPS 3 day provides

and is pretty cheap too.

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I'm pretty sure there is case law that says a CA just has to show that they have a mailing system in place, and that it has records of a letter being generated for you.

I'm sure a few take advantage of that loophole and never send a first letter to avoid having to validate, bit most don't.

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It has been my experience that most CA's attempt to avoid the FDCPA by doing exactly that- they do everything they can to keep you from realizing your DV rights- they lie, and they push the law as far as possible to dodge the law.

I have a file of case law on validation cases where CA's attempted to avoid the 1692g notice (aka the "Miranda" notice) and other FDCPA related violations-

it is 744 single spaced pages long. Filled with gems like:

Youngblood v. G.C. Servs. Ltd. P’ship, 186 F. Supp. 2d 695 (W.D. Tex. 2002). § 1692e(11) and § 1692g notices in gray type on gray background were sufficiently legible. § 1692e(11) and § 1692g notices on reverse were proper where face of dun prominently referenced the notice on reverse.

O’Connor v. Check Rite, 973 F. Supp. 1010 (D. Colo. 1997). Where the front of the collection letter clearly and conspicuously referred the reader to important information on the reverse side, the § 1692e(11) warning was properly given to the consumer.

Adams v. Law Offıces of Stuckert & Yates, 926 F. Supp. 521 (E.D. Pa. 1996). The bona fide error defense was not available to a collection firm for its failure to include the § 1692e(11) warning as the defendant offered no evidence of specific procedures followed to ensure compliance with the FDCPA. Posting a reminder to include the required language in correspondence next to a word processor, as opposed to a system of proofreading letters, was insufficient to qualify for adequate procedure to guard against such errors.

Pilewski v. Capital Credit Bureau, 1996 WL 221757 (E.D. Pa. Apr. 24, 1996). Plaintiff stated a claim upon which relief may be granted when he alleged that dunning letter did not include the warning that information obtained would be used for purpose of collecting a debt.

Sandlin v. Shapiro & Fishman, 919 F. Supp. 1564 (M.D. Fla. 1996). The court found that the failure of the defendant to include the second part of the § 1692e(11) warning in its collection letter was a violation of the FDCPA so denied defendant’s motion to dismiss.

It goes on and on.

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And our lawmakers still don't have the balls to clamp down on these crooks.

All it takes is We, The People to become righteously indignant with our legislators. Melt their phone lines (figuratively speaking) and stuff their mail boxes with letters of complaint.

There are 11K CIC members. Applying the 80/20 rule, if 20% of us all committed to write one letter to our Congressional Rep, two U.S. Senators, and POTUS, and mail them on some date of significant symbolism--oh, say, like, April 15th--what might happen?

Hmmmmmmm.

Well, 2,200 people each mailing 4 letters means 8,800 letters. Each of the 535 U.S. Senators and Congressional Reps would each receive an average of 12 letters, and the POTUS would receive 2,200 letters.

If it happened, I can all but guarantee that SOMETHING good for the consumer would pass.

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CMRRR is not for them, it's for you. If you were ever in a court of law you would need proof you mailed (and they received) your dispute. This way no CA can say they didn't receive it. To be honest with you, most of the stuff I've sent in the past was not CMRRR. Today it is.

But how does CMRRR prove that? All that does is prove you sent them an envelope. The envelope could've been empty, or could've have a piece of lint inside. There's no way to prove what was inside, so couldn't CMRRR easily be challenged?

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There's no way to prove what was inside, so couldn't CMRRR easily be challenged?

It's true that CMRRR merely proves that you sent the recipient something. It could have been empty, contained nude Polaroids or contained that which you claim you sent. Bottom line is you sent it, and they received it.

If it contained nude Polaroids, you can be certain they will have it and will introduce it in court.

If it contains something detrimental to their argument, and they claim, "Er, ah, um, yeah, we got it, but, we didn't think it was important, so, ah, we didn't do anything with it. Umm, I think we threw it out." The judge probably isn't going to be amused, and will probably be inclined to believe you.

You want to do anything you can to make yourself appear credible, believable and even attempting to avoid a lawsuit if at all possible.

Something I and others do is to add a reference line to my letters.

USPS CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED 1234 3456 5678 0987 2345

After I sign the letter, I make several photocopies and file them. If I need to go to court, I'll have a photocopy of a letter with my signature showing a CM #, the CM receipt itself, the USPS receipt which has the CM number, and the RRR green card with the CM #. 4 pieces of evidence to back up your claim that you sent the letter you claim you sent.

I reason that if the judge thinks I'm anal-retentive, and I am, then the judge is more likely to believe my record keeping and accept my claims about the contents of the letter.

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so couldn't CMRRR easily be challenged?

Well, in that sense I suppose everything is subject to challenge. You might want to read up on a term called "judicial notice." That might clear up you question on why some things aren't challenged and some things are.

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Something I and others do is to add a reference line to my letters.

USPS CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED 1234 3456 5678 0987 2345

After I sign the letter, I make several photocopies and file them. If I need to go to court, I'll have a photocopy of a letter with my signature showing a CM #, the CM receipt itself, the USPS receipt which has the CM number, and the RRR green card with the CM #. 4 pieces of evidence to back up your claim that you sent the letter you claim you sent.

I reason that if the judge thinks I'm anal-retentive, and I am, then the judge is more likely to believe my record keeping and accept my claims about the contents of the letter.

If you tried to introduce that, I would inquire as to how you got the CMRRR number on the letter when the letter has to be sealed in order to apply the return receipt. I believe that's part of the process. How do you explain that?

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If you tried to introduce that, I would inquire as to how you got the CMRRR number on the letter when the letter has to be sealed in order to apply the return receipt. I believe that's part of the process. How do you explain that?

You can obtain blank ones from the post office. Just keep them on hand whenever you need to send a CMRRR.

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If you tried to introduce that, I would inquire as to how you got the CMRRR number on the letter when the letter has to be sealed in order to apply the return receipt. I believe that's part of the process. How do you explain that?

I'm not sure I understand your questions. I just go in the PO and pick up blank CM receipts and RRR cards. They're sitting right there. In fact, at most POs I've ever been in, there's usually a little bin with slots for each of the various forms: CM, RRR, Signature Confirmation, Delivery Confirmation, Insured, Registered, etc.

I have the CM receipt, RRR card, envelope and letter all in hand and seperate. I look 'em over one last time to match sure the addresses and CM numbers match, photocopy my signed letter, fold and stuff, peel and apply, then off to the PO with $4.64 in hand.

I suppose one could bring a blank CM receipt and RRR card to court as proof of concept.

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Remember that the standard is preponderance of evidence.

That's kinda where I was trying to lead the poster on this. Imagine yourself being asked something like that and not having the answer. Is the judge going to believe anything else you say? Something very simple can turn into a big problem if you're not prepared, that's all.

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On another note-you can order the blanks for CM and RRR on the USPS website for free and they'll deliver them right to your door. The post office actually encourages us to do it ourselves, especially if you do a lot. It saves them much time if there are long lines at the PO if you have your stuff all ready to go.

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