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Wolpoff & Abramson, NAF vexing me


wolfhound
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Hi, This my my first post, so please forgive any stupdi questions or breaches of protocol.

I have searched the forums quite a bit before posting, but I'd like to get some advice for my specific situation.

April 11, 2007 I was served with papers saying W & A have filed a claim against me with the NAF regarding an MBNA credit card debt of $1620, plus interest, etc.

I had a bad time in 2000 and got very behind on payments. I did make arrangements with MBNA to make monthly payments again, but only made a few. I'm not certain of the date of my last payment, or how to find out, but I don't think it was very much past Christmas of 2000.

The packet I was served with also contains a copy of the credit card agreement, but not anything with my signature on it.

W & A had previously sent me several letters demanding payment, which I didn't answer, being financially unable to pay, even when they offered to accept only half the amount of the debt.

I had already received this exact same packet from them in December, 2006, but apparently they were/are unaware of this fact. They tried to "serve" me with this packet throuh certified mail, which I didn't accept, and a messenger/process server, who was unable to serve me. I was finally served with it this week by a sheriff deputy.

There is a page containing information about the account, with an account number, the balance, and interest and it says date assigned 08/11/2006.

As I mentioned, I have not yet responded.

AFter looking through the procedures and fees required to even file a response with the NAF, I am pretty discouraged, as well as by what I've read about the chances of getting anywhere with them.

I'm wondering if it would be best to phone W & A and offer a payment plan (I could probably only manage $50/month), or aks them to validate the debt, as well as mention the SOL.

I'm not certain about Washington State's SOL, whether it's 3 years or 6, and when it actually started.

Do I now have to address things through the nAF, or can I go to W & A directly, and if so, what's the best appraoch? I ahte to give them even a dime, but I don't look forward to them being awarded a judgement, then getting it confirmed in court and getting my wages garnished.

Any help or advice at all will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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If, in fact, the last payment made was in December, 2000, this debt is timebarred. In Washington state, the SOL on credit cards is 3 years as it is considered an open end account. Look in your state's code of civil procedures or revised statutes to find the exact section referring to SOL's. the two sections are the most likely, if not, you will have to read them all.

If you end up in court on this, cite the statute. Then state that "Laches" is attached. Go to the "lawyer" section here and find the thread titled "Doctrine of Laches" for further info. If it is a small claims, and the wannabe judge refuses to recognize the SOL, ask them to let you take it up to District where the law will be dealt with.

What you could do for now, if time allows, is find the statute and send a CMRR letter to W&A that if they continue, you will fight them. In short, you will file a defendants claim within the time allowed for their illegal actions. Read your papers and see if there is a due date for your answer.

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Thank you. It seems that I have 30 days from April 11 to respond. I'm supposed to respond to the NAF, although W & A stapled an envelope to the back of the packet, as well as their phone number and address.

I was confused about the SOL, I thought it was 6 years, if it's 3, then it's already expired. I was kind of assuming that they think it's 6, which is why they filed the claim late in 2006.

Is it likely they'll back off, or continue with the "arbitration" and proceed?

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W&A rely solely on their very aggressive tactics in scaring people to pay. They recently got spanked by a consumer who is fighting back. The reference to this is here, but, I can't remember the title of the thread that discusses it.

They are known violators and are quite good, but, do not let it scare you. You have law on your side. To assure you have more info, go to the Truth In Lending Act (TILA) and read section 103 or 104. It defines a credit card for SOL.

what you need to do now is spend all of your time getting your answer and claim in order. You will need to dot all I's and cross all T's. Remember, do not waste time writing a letter. Write your defense in an outline format, using key points for the numbers, and letters for the points within points. Examples would be:

1. SOL:

A. State statute #123 clearly states this.

B. Federal statute says this.

This way all you do is glance to stay within your defense, or double check section numbers. Otherwise, if you used a letter format, you would constantly be looking down to find your spot you lost. Judge will not like this.

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Should I call or write W & A and inform them of why I'm not going to pay them, or wait until they go to court?

I don't want to deal with the NAF, from what I saw when I looked on their website, I have to pay a fee to answer the claim, a fee for this and a fee for that, and it appears that they rarely make a judgement against W & A.

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you do not pay a fee to answer the claim.. trust me on this

let me ask you did they W&A provide proof of service? (you would have recieved a second notice of arb.)

How were you served.

How old was the document they served you with?

what date did YOU recieve it?

Was it within the SOL when you got it (not when filed)

this will help in determining your response and DO NOT contact W&A right now...

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According the the fee schedule on NAF website, it's $50 to file a response, then $200 to particpate in a hearing.

I initially received this packet in December 2006, when UPS left it with my apartment manager. I didn't sign for it. A few weeks later W & A sent a certified letter. I didn't sign for or accept that either. Then in late January a messenger service left a message on my answering machine that they had a package I needed to sign for. I ignored their calls and they gave up. Then last Tuesday a sheriif deputy approached me when I got home ad handed the packet to me. It's the exact same stuff I had already gotten, without any proof that I had it.

This time I asked the deputy if I needed to sign anything and he said no. The papers are stamped "Received Civil 27 MAR 07 8:31 AM King County Sheriff."

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Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure of the exact date the last payment was made. Do I get that from looking at my credit report, and what's the fastes way to get a copy?

And again, should I contact W &A, or just answer the NAF, or just wait and see if they get a judgement and take it to a local court for enforcement?

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were you served after the SOL

and again you do NOT pay to file a response with NAf.. I just had this conversation with my NACA guy.. there is no charge to respond.. ONLY if you counter claim

They have to provide proof of service to NAF so the first thing I would do is contact NAF via email on their site with the claim number and see if proof of service is filed

IF they served AFTER the SOL you have a defense here in your answer to NAF.. also again you didnt answer my question.. HOW old was the document they served.. in my case it was a year and a half old.. again NAF rule 41 has a 90 day clause

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just wanted to bump this thread, in case anyone else has any thoughts, but CarolinaBlueEyes is very helpful.

Yes, I was served outside the 90-day timeframe. The claim was filed 11/24/06 and I wasn't served until 4/11/07, although they had been trying to for some time, I would never answer the door or the phone if didn't know who it was, and I refused to sign for any "packages".

The last payment on the account was 10/2001 and it was charged off 6/2002.

As of 4/23/2006, NAF has not received proof of service from W&A.

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Still trying to verify that, though I did find this collector's website. The collect in WA and they say 3 years. http://www.acollectionagency.com/statuteoflimitations/washington.php

Another twist:

I noticed that on the NAF claim papers, where W&A list 6 things such as the amoutn I supposedly owe, their fees, etc.

They also state that the attached agreement(which is a photocopy of an MBNA credit card agreement, though it doesn't have my name or signature or any date on it) conatins a Delaware choice of law provision, which they are invoking in order to claim attorney fees up to 20% of the principal unpaid balance.

So, if they are able to use Delware law for this, don't they also have to be consistant and use it for SOL also? Delaware's SOL seems pretty clear, 3 years for everything.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks

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Still trying to verify that, though I did find this collector's website. The collect in WA and they say 3 years. http://www.acollectionagency.com/statuteoflimitations/washington.php

Thanks

A collection agency would know the state laws in order to have a state license. So, SOL for a credit card must be three years, in WA.

I would like to know the state statue number for open eneded accounts and SOL. I am still searching.

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The MBNA agreement they stapled to teh lousy papers they always use says that MBNA will front the costs of a hearing if you ask. When you answer the claim ( and you should to avoid a railroad job), tell them that you want a participatory hearing and you want the claimant to pay for it per the agreement. Copy to both W&A and the NAF.

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I do indeed plan to respond. So far, I haven't received the second notice of arbitration. I contacte NAF on 4/23 to verify that W&A had filed proof of service. At that point they hadn't, and NAF said when/if they do, NAF will send the notice to me, and I will have 14 days to respond.

Since MBNA is now part of Bank of America, how would I address a letter to them asking them to pony up the fees?

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Keep checking with them DONT wait for your second of ARB they are supposed to send it doesnt mean they always do.. so I would check at least once a week to verify

Remember in your response.. just hit them with their case rules and examples...anything you think will remotely stick throw at them you have nothing to lose

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Most definitely don't wait for them.

Do your homework as to the SOL, and any other violation they may have committed. Sit down and create, in outline form, everything from #1 to #???, incuding all applicable codes they have violated, and penalities, etc. Be precise and aggressvie, and well to the point, no dragging out. It is now time for you to go on the attack. As to the SOL, if the debt is timebarred, nail them to the wall. Cite Kimber v Federal Financial, FDCPA 807 (2)(A), TILA 103/104 (if they argue type of account), for starters. Your goal is to prove they have no legal recourse to their claim, and is wasting everyone's time by bringing this action. Go on to say that their action can be considered a form of Fraud/Extortion, which is a Felony in all states.

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They recently got spanked by a consumer who is fighting back.

This is the case retmar was referring to. Google it and you will find some useful case law to support your case. Good luck.

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS

FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT

FARID M. SAYYED, ü

Plaintiff-Appellant,

v. ý No. 06-1458

WOLPOFF & ABRAMSON,

Decided: May 9, 2007

Before WILKINS, Chief Judge, and WILKINSON and

MOTZ, Circuit Judges.

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